Think we can dispense with the notion that NIL is why we're doing well in recruiting

[sjt18]

Same. It's been my shortsighted mistakes--and living with those consequences--that helped give me current perspective.

But at the end of the day, NIL is probably a great factor, but not sum total. I imagine a kid will go where NIL is offered over where it isn't almost all the time. But there will be other factors weighing in when deciding between 75k/yr and 95k/yr. Do you want to play in [frigid, arctic winters] winters with questionable coaching, whom you can't get along with, and little exposure, over life in [fill in the blank] with great coaches that you 'click' with, a star-studded cast of teammates, and expectation of draft exposure--all for an extra 25-30k/yr? (When you can live quite well until the NFL on what school (B) is offering.)

Exactly.

Most kids at P-5 schools are probably going to start expecting to get paid something. They will likely get something. But even for NIL's sake, you are better playing in a good situation that opens up future opportunities for you.

 

[Volfan76]

I would just like to see the evidence. You are making the claim that the only reason we got Nico was because of NIL. I would just love to see some actual facts that back that up.

Why is proving how much he got paid going to prove that? I have no idea how much he was paid. I know that Heupel brought in a stable of 3 stars in the 2022 class all of which live within a few hour recruiting circle of campus..maybe one from indiana. Now, after a 7-6 record with a gravy schedule, no signature win and a bowl loss to all the sudden Heupel is pulling a 5 star from California and has already got as many 4 stars committed as he did from the entire class last year. He didn't show that much promise and UT doesn't have anything else to offer that it didn't last year. We are still under the same investigation, so that is obviously a non-factor.

 

[Ten_Titans]

Those are usually the thoughts of hourly employees with little job satisfaction. I had recruiters offering me guaranteed 40% increases last year and I didn't entertain them until an upper management change had deleterious effects on work culture. I'm being offered roughly 25% more than current to entertain conversations with recruiters now, and haven't nibbled yet because I'm frankly very happy where I am at. That 25% isn't worth the "unknowns" of culture, etc...

There comes a certain threshold where you have enough $$$ and comfort that it stops becoming the driving force in decisions. Not for everyone, obviously. Unthinking greed is a thing, but I like to think it's not as rampant as some project it to be.

I work in data science. Worked in manufacturing for ten years. The places that pay the most have the best, most accomplished employees in both of those fields. I have a feeling that's true for your field too. And every other field. Money is more correlated with employee quality than benefits, work culture, etc etc

I have personal anecdotes of choosing X Y and Z over money too. Every adult does. But it doesn't begin to disprove the idea that money is the driving factor in any free market system. And as it stands, CFB is just a free market enterprise with no restriction.

 

[Orange_Crush]

It is a factor. You are trying a bait and switch. The argument isn't that money doesn't factor. It is that money isn't the only or possibly (for all/most athletes) even the deciding factor. Would a big NIL deal have been enough to attract a top tier player into the toxic environment of Pruitt or even Jones? Only for the foolish.

FYP.

It's bad logic to take a small sample and expound it out to all results. It's a lazy fallacy, or being disingenuous.

Money may have been his sole driving factor. (Though it would be interesting to see that decision play out without the free transfer in his pocket.) But even if it was HIS driving factor, it's incredibly irrational to expand that out as descriptive of "the sport"--i.e. all athletes.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Why is proving how much he got paid going to prove that? I have no idea how much he was paid. I know that Heupel brought in a stable of 3 stars in the 2022 class all of which live within a few hour recruiting circle of campus..maybe one from indiana. Now, after a 7-6 record with a gravy schedule, no signature win and a bowl loss to all the sudden Heupel is pulling a 5 star from California and has already got as many 4 stars committed as he did from the entire class last year. He didn't show that much promise and UT doesn't have anything else to offer that it didn't last year. We are still under the same investigation, so that is obviously a non-factor.

Well conjecture counts I guess. If you would have listened to AP on some of the VQ podcasts you would know a little more about the situation. But sure money was the biggest factor even though there is no evidence to that.

 

[jvols1999]

Tennessee is mentioned in the article. (see: 7th paragraph, Line 2, hills of Tennessee). In fact, we are the NIL talk of the league after giving Nico 8 million. Just ask Lame Kitten.

IMO, NIL is giving/will give us a competitive advantage over all but probably 30-40 other large fan-base/historic CFB programs due to the sheer amount of money that Spyre will be able to offer across the board.

I hope it will start to show for those programs in the next 5 years and hopefully make the playoffs more interesting to teams not named Bummer or Jawja.

That was the state, not the University.

 

[Ten_Titans]

Give us the proof that money was the key factor in Hunter going to JS.

You're right. Basic common sense and deduction is not proof. I'm not here to prove anything to you.

If you want to believe them when they say they committed for the fans, culture, and school pride, it doesn't bother me. Just make sure you don't ever go back and watch Henry T or Eric Gray interviews from their freshman seasons.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I work in data science. Worked in manufacturing for ten years. The places that pay the most have the best, most accomplished employees in both of those fields. I have a feeling that's true for your field too. And every other field. Money is more correlated with employee quality than benefits, work culture, etc etc

Your post still doesn't show that $$$ is the singular driving force in decision making. You seem to want to bait and switch the argument, which you'd need to do to prove the assertion that NIL $$$ is the singular decision maker here.

But I'll admit that I jumped into an argument mid-stream with both feet, so that may not be your argument. If that's not your argument, we can agree to agree, because I've already argued that it is most likely a factor in decisions. If that is your argument (singular factor), then we'll agree to disagree because it's not something you can prove, even if it's a hill you want to die on, and even if you want to use bad logic as proof.

I have personal anecdotes of choosing X Y and Z over money too. Every adult does. But it doesn't begin to disprove the idea that money is the driving factor in any free market system. And as it stands, CFB is just a free market enterprise with no restriction.

And this was horribly misplaced, considering your use of a single anecdote to prove that "the sport" (i.e. ALL decisions) is driven by NIL $, and my argument was that some may be but not all.

Note that a single anecdotal fact can disprove claims to ALL, while supporting claims to SOME. You are the one that mis-used anecdotal argument, methinks.

(i.e. "ALL Scottish men wear kilts." "I'm a Scottish man, and I am not wearing a kilt!" "But I am, so ALL Scottish men wear kilts!")

See how ridiculous that logic turns out to be?

 

[Wadetime]

and remember that salary is one component. You need to compare Total Rewards: Base, Variable (bonus), LTI (equity) and also benefits (health insurance offerings/employer paid amount, PTO & other perks).

I'm in agreement this is only half of the why for which job/company for me. These are my other main factors: work load, my boss (and their boss), company culture and company stability.

For me it's about 50/50 between total comp/rewards vs. job/company factors.

 

[Devo182]

Those are usually the thoughts of hourly employees with little job satisfaction. I had recruiters offering me guaranteed 40% increases last year and I didn't entertain them until an upper management change had deleterious effects on work culture. I'm being offered roughly 25% more than current to entertain conversations with recruiters now, and haven't nibbled yet because I'm frankly very happy where I am at. That 25% isn't worth the "unknowns" of culture, etc...

There comes a certain threshold where you have enough $$$ and comfort that it stops becoming the driving force in decisions. Not for everyone, obviously. Unthinking greed is a thing, but I like to think it's not as rampant as some project it to be.

Agree. 75k seems to be the threshold, according to research, where no more happiness is gained from making more money.

Goes back to the old notion that "financial happiness" goes back to having security for now and enough to set up your future security. Not a lot to do with being able to buy frivolous, material objects.

 

[Devo182]

and remember that salary is one component. You need to compare Total Rewards: Base, Variable (bonus), LTI (equity) and also benefits (health insurance offerings/employer paid amount, PTO & other perks).

I'm in agreement this is only half of the why for which job/company for me. These are my other main factors: work load, my boss (and their boss), company culture and company stability.

For me it's about 50/50 between total comp/rewards vs. job/company factors.

I can agree with that. I'd happily take 2 weeks extra off for a pay cut. Or not working 60+ hours. Money is pretty pointless if you never have time to enjoy it.

 

[BigSteve09]

Today on VN: A bunch of middle-aged professionals who have interviewed for jobs in various industries in corporate America explain why high schoolers are interested in multi-million dollar opportunities in collegiate athletics.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Today on VN: A bunch of middle-aged professionals who have interviewed for jobs in various industries in corporate America explain why high schoolers are interested in multi-million dollar opportunities in collegiate athletics.

I think the better title may be "Some of those middle aged men refuse to stereotype all high schoolers.

And it's fairly racist to assume that the successful middle agers here are all white. How dare you!

 

[Devo182]

Today on VN: A bunch of middle-aged professionals who have interviewed for jobs in various industries in corporate America explain why high schoolers are interested in multi-million dollar opportunities in collegiate athletics.

 

[Ten_Titans]

Your post still doesn't show that $$$ is the singular driving force in decision making. You seem to want to bait and switch the argument, which you'd need to do to prove the assertion that NIL $$$ is the singular decision maker here.

But I'll admit that I jumped into an argument mid-stream with both feet, so that may not be your argument. If that's not your argument, we can agree to agree, because I've already argued that it is most likely a factor in decisions. If that is your argument (singular factor), then we'll agree to disagree because it's not something you can prove, even if it's a hill you want to die on, and even if you want to use bad logic as proof.



And this was horribly misplaced, considering your use of a single anecdote to prove that "the sport" (i.e. ALL decisions) is driven by NIL $, and my argument was that some may be but not all.

Note that a single anecdotal fact can disprove claims to ALL, while supporting claims to SOME. You are the one that mis-used anecdotal argument, methinks.

(i.e. "ALL Scottish men wear kilts." "I'm a Scottish man, and I am not wearing a kilt!" "But I am, so ALL Scottish men wear kilts!")

See how ridiculous that logic turns out to be?

I said exactly what I meant in that post.

Money is more correlated with employee quality than any other factor. That's just blatantly obvious. At no point did I say it was the only factor. Driving factor, but not the only factor.
And the logical deduction from that is that the best teams will be the ones spending the most money, hard stop. No one ever had a problem accusing Bama with that fact before. It doesn't explain every detail of every recruitment but that isn't the point.

Now, the way some of you are talking, I think you may have completely forgotten what it was like to be 18 shopping for colleges. Talking about loyalty and relationships. I'm sorry... There is not nearly enough time in the day for these recruits to build the kind of relationships you are talking about in two visits and a few hours of phone calls.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I said exactly what I meant in that post.

Money is more correlated with employee quality than any other factor. That's just blatantly obvious. At no point did I say it was the only factor. Driving factor, but not the only factor.
And the logical deduction from that is that the best teams will be the ones spending the most money, hard stop. No one ever had a problem accusing Bama with that fact before. It doesn't explain every detail of every recruitment but that isn't the point.

Now, the way some of you are talking, I think you may have completely forgotten what it was like to be 18 shopping for colleges. Talking about loyalty and relationships. I'm sorry... There is not nearly enough time in the day for these recruits to build the kind of relationships you are talking about in two visits and a few hours of phone calls.

Yah. You assume that $$$ is THE DRIVING factor, as opposed to a driving factor sometimes.

You're wearing a kilt so everyone wears a kilt.

Debating is easy-peezy when you do it like that.

Carry on. I'll agree to disagree with your unprovable hypothesis, having shown how you've irrationally tried to build/defend it.

 

[BigSteve09]

I think the better title may be "Some of those middle aged men refuse to stereotype all high schoolers.

And it's fairly racist to assume that the successful middle agers here are all white. How dare you!

I didn't say that they were successful

 

[Devo182]

Woah woah woah why are we all wearing kilts all of a sudden?

What sorta kink thread did this turn into?

 

[Orange_Crush]

Woah woah woah why are we all wearing kilts all of a sudden?

What sorta kink thread did this turn into?

You have some legwork to do, amigo. Seriously. Ew!

 

[Orange_Crush]

View attachment 452435

61 Jump Street up in here, homie.

 

[Ten_Titans]

Yah. You assume that $$$ is THE DRIVING factor, as opposed to a driving factor sometimes.

You're wearing a kilt so everyone wears a kilt.

Debating is easy-peezy when you do it like that.

Carry on. I'll agree to disagree with your unprovable hypothesis, having shown how you've irrationally tried to build/defend it.

Hmm. Gravity is the driving factor for how fast things fall out of the sky, but not the only factor. Makes sense to me.

I'm going to assume that getting defensive and resorting to semantics just means you know I'm right. That's fine. Anyone who wants to believe Nico chose UT because he likes the color orange can do it. We're fans here at the end of the day. Seeing how the sausage is made isn't for everyone.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

You're right. Basic common sense and deduction is not proof. I'm not here to prove anything to you.

If you want to believe them when they say they committed for the fans, culture, and school pride, it doesn't bother me. Just make sure you don't ever go back and watch Henry T or Eric Gray interviews from their freshman seasons.

Right. I guess the fact that the HC of JS is Deion Sanders had nothing to do with. The fact that Sanders is arguably the greatest DB in NFL history means nothing. Yeah JS was able to come up with more money than ANY other big time D1 program.

Like Lincoln Riley at USC. The only reason he got Malachi Nelson was money right? The fact that he has an offensive system that has produced back to back Heisman winners mean nothing.

Yeah NONE of that stuff matters. You used the basic common sense excuse because you couldn’t provide proof. It’s ok. You made a dumb claim with zero proof. You will learn one day.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Hmm. Gravity is the driving factor for how fast things fall out of the sky, but not the only factor. Makes sense to me.

I'm going to assume that getting defensive and resorting to semantics just means you know I'm right. That's fine. Anyone who wants to believe Nico chose UT because he likes the color orange can do it. We're fans here at the end of the day. Seeing how the sausage is made isn't for everyone.

Well, we've seen how successful your assumptions have been so far, so feel free to continue whatever assumptions you'd like.

 

[DaddyChad]

It wasn't A component it was THE component. Cut that money to below what the next highest NIL deal is and watch how fast he leaves. This is moneyball now(and mostly was before). There is no more loyalty, state pride, school pride, or any other romantic devices that we cling to as fans. The only difference for UT is that we sucked at doing it well and not getting caught before the NIL era.

You got the mostly was before part right.

 

[sjt18]

I work in data science. Worked in manufacturing for ten years. The places that pay the most have the best, most accomplished employees in both of those fields. I have a feeling that's true for your field too. And every other field. Money is more correlated with employee quality than benefits, work culture, etc etc

I have personal anecdotes of choosing X Y and Z over money too. Every adult does. But it doesn't begin to disprove the idea that money is the driving factor in any free market system. And as it stands, CFB is just a free market enterprise with no restriction.

Rather than continuing to argue in hypotheticals... can you show some PROOF of what you claim?

Here's an article that argues against your claims:

What Matters More to Your Workforce than Money