Thoughts on Johnny Majors Coments

#26
#26
Originally posted by OldVol@Jul 22, 2005 12:47 AM
What Johnny said about being backstabbed and deceived is true.

What he said about Alabama is true as well. Lets face it folks, the teams Bama has fielded since going on probation in 94 are not the same type teams that the Bear and Stallings fielded. Of course, it's become quite obvious that they were cheating to achieve those results, so it's kind of a catch 22 when trying to say which situation is better: Losing to the best team money can buy, or dominating a team that's been gutted by probation and bad recruiting as a result of the probation.

I prefer to beat the Tide, regardless of the situation, but there have been no Vol victories over teams like the Bear had in the 70s and 80s, that's just a very clear-cut, no arguments fact.

However; and I say this with respect and love, as I have said it to his face and will again the next time I see him, John needs to let the past go. He was done very dirty. People who he mentored worked behind his back, while he was sick, to wrest his job from him.

Johnny Majors is a good man. It's a shame that people feel the need to talk about his drinking in the fashion that they do. To be honest, John couldn't hold a candle to what the school's all-time great hero could guzzle. So, if you want to talk about drinking, I'd say that's a foolish thing to do. If you think he's an alcoholic, you are just showing how little you know the man, or even about the man.

He's brought a lot of the bad sentiment on himself, but I do know that there's not a man or woman on this board who would be so congenial if they were done exactly the same way Johnny was.

Johnny was made promises by the administration that they absolutely did not keep. He was lied to about his contract and he was jobbed by his subordinates.

As for his record, some of you might want to keep in mind that the year he was fired, he only lost 3 games. So if you think he was fired because of his record you're just wrong. He was fired because of personalities and that's it in a nutshell. Please, don't try to give Phil all the credit for being 3/0. That was John's team. He had drilled them in the Spring and Fall's two-a-days. Some of the losses could be attributed to his too-soon return, but what would you have done if you knew the foundation to your house was being stolen brick by brick while you were recuperating?

You can argue the merits of his quick return to the field after surgery, but he had the facts that he was being eased out because of enemies he made as a result of remarks that shone light on the lies that were made to him about his contract. Instead of keeping their word, they were angered because he made public statements that made them look bad. But he spoke the truth. It's a truth that I wish he had chosen to handle in a different way.

Before you reply to this with the usual knee-jerk reactions, please read what I've said carefully. I don't think John made every move right. But I do know he is and was honest. I also know others involved in the matter were not. Think about that and try to put yourself in those shoes.
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You can believe that if you wish. But some of us know the whole story. Johnny got what he deserved no more no less. You can tell him to face the truth. Fulmer had nothing to do with what happened and you and him can take that to the Bank and write it in INK because that is fact! Johnny was gone no matter what can you and him understand that. Dickey and others were just lucky that there was someone there that loved UT more than a has been coach, who by the way run off more coaches because he couldn't or wouldn't let them do their jobs. Run off more Doners because of his attitude and more top recruits because of his unwillingness to change. His time at UT was over, he had done all he could, he had brought the program back from the brink but could not due to his coaching weakness, recruiting deficiency and lack of managerial cohesion take UT to the Championship level. He could not beat Bama consistantly and if he had stayed UF would have done worse to him than they did to Fulmer due to his inability to recruit DB's and keep defensive coaches. His tenure at UT was marked by the rotating door attached to the defense. He hung Donahue out to dry, run Lacewell off. How many DB coaches did he go thru? Some of the better recruiters in college football right now were run-off by Majors. The only person Majors has to blame is himself and the more him and his cronies run their mouths the more THEY tarnish what he accomplished as both a player and a coach at The University of Tennessee. If he cannot get over it then that is his problem and for my money him running his mouth only tears down UT nothing else. I would hate to be that bitter about life, he must be miserable. For his information OVER 60% of UT fans knew it was time for him to go! I've followed UT football since 1967 and growing up lived and breathed UT football and it was UT football that caused me to want to play but there is no coach bigger than the team or the university and Majors thought he was. I know that if Dickey had stayed at UT Bear Bryant would have been just another good SEC coach, Battle would have been just an Asst. Coach footnote, UT would have never sank to the low point of the 70's and early 80's and Johnny would never had had a chance to come Marching Home. I said all along even back when Battle was hired that Majors should have gotten the job but the AD wanted to be able to run around and crow about having the youngest HC in College football and almost destroyed UT football. If Majors had been hired maybe things would have been different but its not and I have had my fill of a bitter old man who has ruined what could have been and is ruining his legacy everytime he opens his mouth about UT or Fulmer.
 
#27
#27
Two very interesting views between oldvol and vol67. Althogh there is alot of truth to both sides, the hardest truth is that Major's is not classy enough to swallow his pride and instead selfishly shows that he loves himself alot more than UT Football. He could have been a giant in UT history and still, he will be recognized. But deep down I don't believe the fans will respect and honor him like they could have had he taken on a more heroically humble position. If it had happened to me I probably would have cried and stomped my feet more than he did but then again I'm not a legend. I guess that's the biggest disappointment..because legend's don't stomp away, they thank you for the opportunity to have served something bigger than themselves then they just walk away. Johnnie came marching home, but when you start stomping on it, you never really lived there. I suppose that is why home to Johnnie is Pittsburg.
 
#28
#28
Whether he got knifed or lnot is open to interpretation. Depending on who you talk to, CPF was either actively backstabbing or was merely in the right place at the right time. One thing is for sure - Majors let his ego get him in trouble and severely miscalculated the alumni when he went public during the Big Orange Caravan with his contract squabble . . .
 
#29
#29
I do not want to go to either side of this debate about Majors but I will offer my opinion just a little bit.

I never felt comfortable with a lead while he was there...the play calling made me want to cry...

I will give Johnny credit for taking the program up a few notches, but if he had stayed, we would not have, in my opinion, EVER gotten it to the level it is now.

I was one of the U.T. faithful that endured through those years of wondering when we were going to turn the corner and start beating everyone we were supposed to and some that we should not have. Never happened.

So, I must say that I was one happy camper when Johnny was SET FREE.

I always wished him well, because I was proud of everything he accomplished as a player and some of the things he accomplished as a coach while he was in K-town.

BUT, in my opinion, it was time for him to go and I just wish he would have handled things differently since. The more he talks about it now, the worse he makes it on himself.

I would rather focus on the present and the future of our program and let Johnny do his thing in Pennsylvania.
 
#30
#30
I do not know what happened between Majors, Fulmer, et al.
It has always been my understanding that Fulmer was ready to be a head coach and had the offers to prove it. Coach Dickey wanted Fulmer to be the next head coach at Tennesse and so pulled the trigger. Clearly, there is a fair amount of more complete knowledge out there on this board. I would love to be enlightened. Please share!
 
#31
#31
Originally posted by TBALLVOL@Jul 22, 2005 7:53 AM
Two very interesting views between oldvol and vol67. Althogh there is alot of truth to both sides, the hardest truth is that Major's is not classy enough to swallow his pride and instead selfishly shows that he loves himself alot more than UT Football. He could have been a giant in UT history and still, he will be recognized. But deep down I don't believe the fans will respect and honor him like they could have had he taken on a more heroically humble position. If it had happened to me I probably would have cried and stomped my feet more than he did but then again I'm not a legend. I guess that's the biggest disappointment..because legend's don't stomp away, they thank you for the opportunity to have served something bigger than themselves then they just walk away. Johnnie came marching home, but when you start stomping on it, you never really lived there. I suppose that is why home to Johnnie is Pittsburg.
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Home to Johnnie is not Pitt. He's still employed there.

I agree that he should have let it go. As I said, I have told him as much. In fact, I've often done so, but with far more compassion than the usual knee-jerk reactions you see on these boards. I laugh every time folks try to free certain people from guilt in how John was fired. It shows they have absolutely no knowledge of John's side.

Even the Nashville Tennessean reported on phone records that implicated certain folks in the manner John was fired.

I may be the only person on this board, probably am, who has played golf with both of the guys involved, at the same time and in the same foursome. Having been in the sporting goods industry in a big way in this state, and having had access to a number of places in the state; namely the manufacturing of golf clubs and the manufacturing of Wilson Footballs, I was a pretty popular guy before my retirement. :D

Funny thing is, I still like them both. I also know that mistakes were made on both sides. In fact, there are more than 2 sides to this. It became a very complicated matter that involved more than just 2 people and 2 personalities.

It's too bad people can't just admit that. To me, that's just as classless as what John is doing now. To condone that sort of treatment of a man who was battling not only for his job, but his very life, is just beyond what 'good folk' do.

John's mistakes now do not erase what happened to him in 93. They do not eradicate the mistakes and injustices of the past. They do make it easier for people to forget it, though it seems, and I do understand that.

As some have said: John had a lot of friends in the media and in coaching. Yes, there are people still around who hold those old grudges. There are attitudes expressed by certain college commentators that I know the minute I see it, that it's a reflection of what happened in 93.

You have to remember, John was a great interview. He had a head full of history when it came to college football in general and UT in particular. He's one of the best story tellers alive in any field.

Journalists tend to like a guy like that.

The truth is; everyone should let it go.

It isn't going to happen though.

And so we discuss it.

 
#32
#32
I think that today's College Football fan, and in particular, today's Tennessee Football Fan, is more upset with Majors for what he continues to say about "the guy that coaches at UT now".

Alot of people can understand fighting for your job. Alot of people can forgive things said in the heat of the moment. HOWEVER, when you take every chance THIRTEEN YEARS LATER to continue to run your mouth off and act immature, then you aren't going to win many friends.

Majors is also becoming a hypocrit. I can understand holding a grudge. I can understand not liking Phil and others. However, if that is your stance, and if you are going to badmouth the coach and the University, (and make no mistake, when you are poor-mouthing what the coach and University has done in winning 9 of the last 10 against Alabama, you are talking down to the University too, not just the coach.), then you shouldn't be waltzing back into the stadium and waving to the fans.

In fact, at most other schools, where there aren't 65-70,000 "over 65" fans sitting in the stands, I'll bet he wouldn't be coming back so willingly. Johnny knows he still has friends like OldVol in the stands. However, I promise him one thing. If he wants to continue bad mouthing Phil and coming back trying to play fan favorite, he will soon hear the chorus of boos that he deserves for the way he has acted over the past 10+ years.
 
#33
#33
Nice discussion in this thread and I'll have to go with Old Vol on this one.
To me, that's just as classless as what John is doing now. To condone that sort of treatment of a man who was battling not only for his job, but his very life, is just beyond what 'good folk' do
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That was a nice statement about Urban...I'm just wondering if he really meant it, or just threw that out to put a lil more pressure on Fulmer?
 
#34
#34
OldVol- Mine is not a kneejerk reaction or response. Just as you said what you are talking is Majors side and as anything from someone directly involved his judgement is clouded same as anyone else's would be. What I said was true and factual not clouded by being personally involved or being the recepient of said action but knowing the facts. You and Majors can spout all you want about Fulmer but you just show how much you both don't care about the true facts of the matter but let your hurt feelings lead to lashing out at everyone.

I will repeat Majors got what he deserved period and if you want him to face me I'll tell him the same to his face. He brought it all on himself with his manner and attitude. He thought he was UT's version of The Bear or the 2nd coming of General Neyland and he wasn't. He had took UT as far as he could and everyone but the blind knew it. It was time for him to move on but he refused to do it. He could have been sitting in Knoxville right now as AD of one of the top sports programs in the college world but his EGO and Bitterness prevented that and has ruined his legacy even for those of us that have 40 years or more following UT.

So don't come at me or others with this kneejerk reaction crap cause it doesn't fly in the face of truth!
 
#35
#35
Originally posted by GatorVille@Jul 21, 2005 11:24 PM
Charly, good job, unlike others here, you face that UF will be tough, instead of turning away from reality and saying well blow them out no  problem, face it guys, its gonna be a good game, and UF very well could win ( i  expect them too)..... nice post.
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Now you have just started it.

NO ONE has said UT will blow out UF but then again most crocs twuist the truth. Meyer hasn't proven anything other than he can win at mid-majors with other peoples recruits and players against weaker opponents. The SEC is not the MWC or the Mid-American. It should be a good game but UT has the better talent 28-20 UT
 
#36
#36
My hope is that by Hamilton reaching out to Majors by recognizing the 85 team that perhaps it can be the start of some healing that will permit Johnnie to really come marching home. I would love to see him let go of Pitt and the Past and re-establish a loyal relationship with UT. Johnnie can at leat take pride in raising up Fulmer so he really can share in the success we enjoy today.
 
#37
#37
Originally posted by TBALLVOL@Jul 22, 2005 1:59 PM
My hope is that by Hamilton reaching out to Majors by recognizing the 85 team that perhaps it can be the start of some healing that will permit Johnnie to really come marching home. I would love to see him let go of Pitt and the Past and re-establish a loyal relationship with UT. Johnnie can at leat take pride in raising up Fulmer so he really can share in the success we enjoy today.
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Not a chance. But a nice thought.
 
#38
#38
Originally posted by BeltwayVol@Jul 22, 2005 1:23 PM
Not a chance. But a nice thought.
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Id wish the same, with the healing. But AD MH isnt whom JM has his beefs with so..I doubt it too
 
#39
#39
Man, I love it when this crap gets dug up every year. Is it 1993 again?

One thing I will disagree on is the fact that Fulmer has not faced good Bama teams. No, he didn't face the Bear, but he didn't have to. Those Bama teams in the mid to late 90's were not bad, by any stretch.

Funny that Johnny forgets the Ray Perkins coached teams he went up against and LOST to. At least Fulmer has a winning record against those mediocre Bama teams.

Please Johnny...just let it go.
 
#40
#40
Funny, he wants to talk about the quality of the Bammer teams of the past decade, but he fails to mention the bammer teams of 1987, 1988, or 1990. At least Phil wins the ones he should win. Hell, if John had beaten the lesser Bammer teams a little more often he might have had a better chance of holding his job. That same Bammer team that beat us in 1990 got hammered by friggin Louisville in the Fiesta Bowl (and they were the only teams the Fiesta could get that year because all the good teams boycoted them over the MLK holiday I believe, so it wasn't a true Fiesta Bowl from the standpoint of importance.)
 
#41
#41
As far as whether or not he got screwed, maybe he did, maybe he didn't. The point is, how much longer is he gonna hold this grudge and continue taking shots at CPF. How many people get screwed out of positions everyday. Most of them get over it and get on with their lives. Good God coach, get over it please.
 
#42
#42
I thought Johnny made the wrong people mad. Dickey and boosters saw the opportunity to make a change. Majors had proven he had lead the football team as far as he could. Like someone said there were multiple issue going on. It was time to move on and circumstances just helped out. I think Fulmer was in the right/wrong place at a convenient time.

I don't think less of Fulmer if he took advantage of the situation. If my boss was out of work, and I was offered the chance to promote I would. Especially if I were treated badly like I suppose Majors could mistreat people.

In the end, it has worked out well for UT. We have a better program, a championship, and promising future.
 
#43
#43
Ill be the first to say that I did not know the inner workings of the UT-AD back in late 1992. But I do have a memory. Memory serves me that Fulmer, as interim coach for Majors, led us to a 3-0 record, including wins over UF and UGA.

Upon Majors' return, he lost 3 of 5, to Arkansas, Bama, and USC.

Sorry JM. But it was a no brainer for DD.
 
#44
#44
Originally posted by OldVol@Jul 22, 2005 11:18 AM
Home to Johnnie is not Pitt. He's still employed there.

I agree that he should have let it go. As I said, I have told him as much. In fact, I've often done so, but with far more compassion than the usual knee-jerk reactions you see on these boards. I laugh every time folks try to free certain people from guilt in how John was fired. It shows they have absolutely no knowledge of John's side.

Even the Nashville Tennessean reported on phone records that implicated certain folks in the manner John was fired.

I may be the only person on this board, probably am, who has played golf with both of the guys involved, at the same time and in the same foursome. Having been in the sporting goods industry in a big way in this state, and having had access to a number of places in the state; namely the manufacturing of golf clubs and the manufacturing of Wilson Footballs, I was a pretty popular guy before my retirement.  :D

Funny thing is, I still like them both. I also know that mistakes were made on both sides. In fact, there are more than 2 sides to this. It became a very complicated matter that involved more than just 2 people and 2 personalities.

It's too bad people can't just admit that. To me, that's just as classless as what John is doing now. To condone that sort of treatment of a man who was battling not only for his job, but his very life, is just beyond what 'good folk' do.

John's mistakes now do not erase what happened to him in 93. They do not eradicate the mistakes and injustices of the past. They do make it easier for people to forget it, though it seems, and I do understand that.

As some have said: John had a lot of friends in the media and in coaching. Yes, there are people still around who hold those old grudges. There are attitudes expressed by certain college commentators that I know the minute I see it, that it's a reflection of what happened in 93.

You have to remember, John was a great interview. He had a head full of history when it came to college football in general and UT in particular. He's one of the best story tellers alive in any field.

Journalists tend to like a guy like that.

The truth is; everyone should let it go.

It isn't going to happen though.

And so we discuss it.
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OldVol, I just love reading your posts. While I do not agree with you on the Majors situation, I really like the way you back up what you say with fact while still respecting the opinions of others, even those who disagree with you. I would like a little more info on the golf foursome, if you don't mind. Did y'all play together before or after the firing?
 
#45
#45
Originally posted by checkerboard_charly@Jul 21, 2005 9:36 PM
screw u croc.....  lol...only j/k.

could be game of the year. i expect a very loud and crazy crowd down there.

this game just really really worries me man.
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IT should, lol. The Swamp will be rockin and ready. Biggest SEC game of the year, and potentially and arguably the biggest in the country. I cant wait i cant wait i cant wait. haha, but just to let everyone know, ill be here win or lose B)
 
#46
#46
Originally posted by LadyinOrange@Jul 24, 2005 9:47 PM
OldVol, I just love reading your posts. While I do not agree with you on the Majors situation, I really like the way you back up what you say with fact while still respecting the opinions of others, even those who disagree with you. I would like a little more info on the golf foursome, if you don't mind. Did y'all play together before or after the firing?
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Oh, that was long before there was friction.

I think it was the off-season of 87 or 88.

I don't think John and Phil have socialized at all since the split.

They did spend a good bit of time together before the problems came about. That's why I have such a hard time with the folks who claim that they had not gotten along for years. If there was any friction in the late 80s you sure couldn't tell it by being around them. I mean, that's their off season; you don't usually spend time with people you don't like during your vacation time. At least that's been my experience.

Also, another interesting anecdote; on one occasion I arranged a tour of a sports manufacturing facility that John, Phil, and Doug Dickey all three enjoyed. If there was friction then I was blind to it. I think that was around 1990.

 
#47
#47
Originally posted by GatorVille@Jul 24, 2005 11:13 PM
IT should, lol.  The Swamp will be rockin and ready.  Biggest SEC game of the year, and potentially and arguably the biggest in the country.  I cant wait i cant wait i cant wait. haha, but just to let everyone know, ill be here win or lose B)
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I'm giving the biggest game in the country title to Texas @ Ohio State. As far SEC... If Meyer can return Florida to its former glory, then it will be big. Until then I'd say Tennessee vs. LSU.
 
#48
#48
Originally posted by OldVol@Jul 25, 2005 3:21 PM
They did spend a good bit of time together before the problems came about. That's why I have such a hard time with the folks who claim that they had not gotten along for years. If there was any friction in the late 80s you sure couldn't tell it by being around them. I mean, that's their off season; you don't usually spend time with people you don't like during your vacation time. At least that's been my experience.

Also, another interesting anecdote; on one occasion I arranged a tour of a sports manufacturing facility that John, Phil, and Doug Dickey all three enjoyed. If there was friction then I was blind to it. I think that was around 1990.
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I just got through reading Johnny's book You Can Go Home Again, which was written right after the Sugar Bowl. win over Miami. Johnny refers to Phil several times as one of the finest coaches he's ever worked with, and other similar compliments. Interesting in that now he takes every chance he gets to claim that Phil can't coach at all. Just curious, did he suddenly lose the ability to coach?

If Johnny Majors is in fact correct that Phil Fulmer can't coach (which he's not), then what exactly does that say about Johnny Majors abilities as a coach? It was Johnny after all who hired him in the first place (To replace Joe Avezanno before the 1980 season if I recall correctly). It was Johnny who promoted him to offensive coordinator and asst head coach too. Surely a great coach wouldn't promote someone who dosen't know what they're doing to such an important position. :twocents:
 
#49
#49
Originally posted by MyBloodRunnethOrange@Jul 26, 2005 4:34 PM
It was Johnny after all who hired him in the first place (To replace Joe Avezanno before the 1980 season if I recall correctly).
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Is that the old Dallas Special Teams coach?
 
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