Thoughts on the hire of Kim Caldwell

[VolBall09]

Ummm, I wouldn’t be so sure we have. Her new husband, Justin, is an assistant coach for Marshall who came to Marshall last year after leaving Granville, where he’d been head coach for several years.

I am not saying he’ll be an assistant to her, but I won’t be surprised if he is. And after having been a head coach of his own program, my concern would be if he could resist the urge to try to be the behind-the-scenes head coach of his wife’s team.

I haven’t heard anything one way or another, but him being in coaching for years himself, and a head coach at that … along with the fact that they’re still basically newlyweds, I can’t see him either deciding to stay at Marshall OR come to Knoxville and not coach somewhere. They don’t have children yet, so they do have a bit more freedom, but still …

You know I’m with you on the married couples coaching thing, so I hope if he joins her in Knoxville he’ll be taking some other position instead of one on Kim’s staff.

But if he does, he does, and I’ll hope for the best.

He’s never coached in the women’s game. Don’t see that changing now. Maybe, but doubtful.

I think it’s more likely White uses some of the salary he saved hiring her to hire a couple really good assistants.

I wouldn’t be mad at Williams staying if she can let things go and get on the same page with the new coach. Players do love her and she really is a good recruiter. Got all the right kids on campus for Kellie but someone wasn’t closing the deal.

Could see us paying a really experienced coach like Balcomb or Goestenkors to give her some guidance if the going gets tough during the season.

 

[Amb3096]

Ummm, I wouldn’t be so sure we have. Her new husband, Justin, is an assistant coach for Marshall who came to Marshall last year after leaving Granville, where he’d been head coach for several years.

I am not saying he’ll be an assistant to her, but I won’t be surprised if he is. And after having been a head coach of his own program, my concern would be if he could resist the urge to try to be the behind-the-scenes head coach of his wife’s team.

I haven’t heard anything one way or another, but him being in coaching for years himself, and a head coach at that … along with the fact that they’re still basically newlyweds, I can’t see him either deciding to stay at Marshall OR come to Knoxville and not coach somewhere. They don’t have children yet, so they do have a bit more freedom, but still …

You know I’m with you on the married couples coaching thing, so I hope if he joins her in Knoxville he’ll be taking some other position instead of one on Kim’s staff.

But if he does, he does, and I’ll hope for the best.

He has his own CV completely separate from his wife (unlike Jon), so why wouldn't he look at opportunities to continue with coaching the boys? I also don't get the "behind the scenes head coach of his wife's team". I know that was the party line to pin Kellie's coaching failures on Jon, but whether it was true or not, it was still her failure. I'm sure that Kim will do what's best for the team with regards to her staffing.

 

[creekdipper]

Winning

C'mon, VF.

They both have winning resumes with incredible win-loss records.

Miller was National Coach of the Year in back-to-back years. She was her conference COY in 2023 and in her new conference finals twice despite not winning that conference even though she crushed it at her previous stop. I think you're letting your preferences guide a selective narrative.

Miller and Caldwell have very similar records. You just like Caldwell better. Either would have been a big dice roll.

And neither was likely to bring any players with them or have established recruiting ties with elite recruits. That is always going to be a huge challenge when elevating coaches from midrange ranks, which probably explains why top D1 assistants get promoted from within or hired away.

I like Caldwell just fine so far and vastly prefer her to some of the tainted characters who had bigger names. But her hire is exactly the opposite of what most of the most vocal Kellie-replacers assured us that Wizard White with his master plan and home run hire that he'd had in place for months was going to spring upon an unsuspecting and awed basketball world.

Now all the backtracking and scrambling and mansplaining has begun and the "prepare to be amazed" boasts have been replaced by the weak sauce mantra 'I trust Danny."

I hope Kim is the answer, and I could not have cared less whether she is from the "Summitt tree" or not (unlike many, I would not have idiotically held that against her, either). I would like posters to be honest enough in their assessments re: whether the results will be viewed as an upgrade, rerun, or downgrade from previous staffs. And not have double standards, which we've already seen re: comparisons between Kim and Kellie re: previous records.

I will predict without having to try hard that some of those defending and even boasting about White's decision will either be lambasting Kim (and the players, which has already begun) or blaming Kellie (which has already begun proactively) if not pleased. The same people insisting that Sweet Sixteens and third-place conference finishes are unacceptable results are now the ones urging "patience."

 

[turbovol]

Honestly to me, it does make me feel better that he at least tried to go after some other names. Knowing that Caldwell was where we ended up and not where we started at least gives me a better idea of where we stand

Do we know that he went after other coaches? Says who? There was one vague report that he approached the Indiana coach, who was not interested, and then moved to Caldwell. Maybe he got a lot of 'no's' from various agents pretty quickly. Possible, but my sense is that he had Caldwell in mind from the start. I certainly don't think White was prepared to go all out to hire an established winner. That I would bet. We don't seem to have real searches anymore--and maybe that is true generally partly because ADs feel pressure to make a hire quickly.

Is this the type of hire White would hire if Barnes retired? I doubt it--you'd get an even bigger uproar from the men's fan base. Look at the coaching changes on the men's side in the last couple of weeks---majors going to majors. It will be interesting to see who Kentucky now hires--a men's program that, to me, is quite comparable to our women's program with respect to historical success.

Caldwell could succeed if the donors pony up enough payola to buy good players---that's apparently the game now--and good players are 70 percent of the battle.

As for her "innovative coaching style," I'm skeptical. Everybody shoots a lot of 3s nowadays. And a full-court press? That would be interesting. You almost never see a traditional full-court press anymore--men or women. Late in games, maybe, by trailing teams--but it's become quite rare, and I think the reason is that 1) you need a deep team to do it; and 2 and more important, solid teams know how to break a press, and doing so leads to easy buckets at the other ends. Coaches have seen that for a long time and so don't do it anymore. We'll see!

 

[lvocd]

I thought for sure someone like Moren would be interested since she would have so much more support than Indiana does for women’s basketball. I was dead wrong.

Again, and louder for the back row:

Teri Moren cannot, for reasons beyond her control, take another job right now for any amount of money. Not even a job she might dearly love to have. For the sake of her ailing elderly father there, she can’t leave and certainly can’t uproot him at this point.

 

[spojo13]

Again, and louder for the back row:

Teri Moren cannot, for reasons beyond her control, take another job right now for any amount of money. Not even a job she might dearly love to have. For the sake of her ailing elderly father there, she can’t leave and certainly can’t uproot him at this point.

Thanks for that info. Guess I was waaay in the back!

 

[brittannica]

If he is on the staff…. that might be the thing that gets us to consider canceling our season tickets. I will support this hire with a strong support system. He is not that.

Another no from me would be bringing her staff from Marshall.

 

[spojo13]

Another no from me would be bringing her staff from Marshall.

That was one of my immediate red flags with the last hire. You need people experienced in this atmosphere right off the bat. I know it was during the early days of the coaching search but someone said that they were told Danny was asking candidates about who their staff would be. I would hope he would realize bringing your entire staff from Marshall isn’t going to cut it.

 

[VolFuture]

C'mon, VF.

They both have winning resumes with incredible win-loss records.

Miller was National Coach of the Year in back-to-back years. She was her conference COY in 2023 and in her new conference finals twice despite not winning that conference even though she crushed it at her previous stop. I think you're letting your preferences guide a selective narrative.

Miller and Caldwell have very similar records. You just like Caldwell better. Either would have been a big dice roll.

And neither was likely to bring any players with them or have established recruiting ties with elite recruits. That is always going to be a huge challenge when elevating coaches from midrange ranks, which probably explains why top D1 assistants get promoted from within or hired away.

I like Caldwell just fine so far and vastly prefer her to some of the tainted characters who had bigger names. But her hire is exactly the opposite of what most of the most vocal Kellie-replacers assured us that Wizard White with his master plan and home run hire that he'd had in place for months was going to spring upon an unsuspecting and awed basketball world.

Now all the backtracking and scrambling and mansplaining has begun and the "prepare to be amazed" boasts have been replaced by the weak sauce mantra 'I trust Danny."

I hope Kim is the answer, and I could not have cared less whether she is from the "Summitt tree" or not (unlike many, I would not have idiotically held that against her, either). I would like posters to be honest enough in their assessments re: whether the results will be viewed as an upgrade, rerun, or downgrade from previous staffs. And not have double standards, which we've already seen re: comparisons between Kim and Kellie re: previous records.

I will predict without having to try hard that some of those defending and even boasting about White's decision will either be lambasting Kim (and the players, which has already begun) or blaming Kellie (which has already begun proactively) if not pleased. The same people insisting that Sweet Sixteens and third-place conference finishes are unacceptable results are now the ones urging "patience."

Well tbh better conference and I meant winning as in not choking in your conference tournament

Also winning as in actually won a natty

 

[creekdipper]

How does any of the posters on this thread know who Danny White contacted and offered the job? Maybe Caldwell was his choice all along.

We were assured that the plan was in place before the firing and that what Danny wants, Danny gets. After all, he is the Coach Whisperer.

 

[lvocd]

He has his own CV completely separate from his wife (unlike Jon), so why wouldn't he look at opportunities to continue with coaching the boys? I also don't get the "behind the scenes head coach of his wife's team". I know that was the party line to pin Kellie's coaching failures on Jon, but whether it was true or not, it was still her failure. I'm sure that Kim will do what's best for the team with regards to her staffing.

I’m not saying Justin definitely would try to be the secret head coach, nor did I EVER say that Jon had tried to do it, either.

But get real. Everyone knows what marriage is like, and despite lots of people in marriages publicly claiming they are equal partners in the marriage, that is rarely the actual case.

I just don’t think I want my female head coach having someone on her staff who is supposed to understand that their role is to assist, not overstep override, simply because they are waaaay too familiar with their spouse and can get away with it. I don’t want my female head coach to EVER have to worry about the status of the ego of her husband. I don’t want my female head coach to go to work the next day and have to coach with someone she has to pack his bags for trips, or have to remind him to take the trash out or to put the damn toilet seat down. lol

Obviously not saying ANY of these silly examples were true of the Harpers. Just saying even the possibility that overfamiliarity between a head coach and an assistant could lead to unpleasant issues on the job, is not something I think should ever be risked.

I’d feel this same way if the coaching marital or dating relationship was between two women or two men. Don’t risk having one person have to consider the other’s deeply personal marriage-level feelings on the job!

 

[lvocd]

P.S. If Barnes wants to hire Justin, that would be GREAT!

 

[creekdipper]

Well tbh better conference and I meant winning as in not choking in your conference tournament

Also winning as in actually won a natty

If I remember correctly, Miller's team was undefeated the year COVID cancelled the seasons for everybody.

I don't understand this apparent need to slam a successful coach for being successful. Barancyzk won some and lost some to Kellie while at Drake (imo, Drake was the stronger, more consistent program) and her OK team lost to Kellie this year. That doesn't mean that I'll try to portray Jennie as an inferior coach to Kellie. She was one of my potential candidates in 2019 (after Wes Moore) and was one for this time around. I think Miller will get her shot at the big time eventually.

 

[37620VOL]

P.S. If Barnes wants to hire Justin, that would be GREAT!

Does Tusculum need a men's coach?

 

[Enki_Amenra]

 

[creekdipper]

I’m not saying Justin definitely would try to be the secret head coach, nor did I EVER say that Jon had tried to do it, either.

But get real. Everyone knows what marriage is like, and despite lots of people in marriages publicly claiming they are equal partners in the marriage, that is rarely the actual case.

I just don’t think I want my female head coach having someone on her staff who is supposed to understand that their role is to assist, not overstep override, simply because they are waaaay too familiar with their spouse and can get away with it. I don’t want my female head coach to EVER have to worry about the status of the ego of her husband. I don’t want my female head coach to go to work the next day and have to coach with someone she has to pack his bags for trips, or have to remind him to take the trash out or to put the damn toilet seat down. lol

Obviously not saying ANY of these silly examples were true of the Harpers. Just saying even the possibility that overfamiliarity between a head coach and an assistant could lead to unpleasant issues on the job, is not something I think should ever be risked.

I’d feel this same way if the coaching marital or dating relationship was between two women or two men. Don’t risk having one person have to consider the other’s deeply personal marriage-level feelings on the job!

Since you opened this can of worms in your last paragraph, there have been some unsubstantiated (publicly) but frequent rumors that some highly successful coaches have longstanding significant others on their staffs. Just sayin'.

If those speculations were ever confirmed publicly by the principals, I doubt the fan base would care unless it would be positive press and congratulations.

 

[lvocd]

Since you opened this can of worms in your last paragraph, there have been some unsubstantiated (publicly) but frequent rumors that some highly successful coaches have longstanding significant others on their staffs. Just sayin'.

If those speculations were ever confirmed publicly by the principals, I doubt the fan base would care unless it would be positive press and congratulations.

Not from me. Leave the personal relationships at home.

I understand that sometimes people fall in love with co-workers. It happens. But if I were the head coach of a team and I fell in love with a co-worker, if we wanted to stay in the relationship then one of us would have to resign from our job.

 

[creekdipper]

I'm glad that we got a coach who seems to have great character, room to grow, and does not have to decimate her previous school's roster in order to succeed. I also hope that she left a nice thank you to the Marshall fans and administrators for their beliefs and support...and that no mattresses were harmed in her wake.

 

[TJSVOLS]

Well, here we are!
Kellie deserved at least one more season with increased NIL and decreased injuries. I will always wish her much success and appreciate everything she did for UT as a player and coach.

We have a new coach now and I will be 100% behind her. I hope she values and takes care of our current Lady Vol’s as they are a great group of young women. She will definitely need help recruiting at this level so I hope she retains Sam and Joy and I hope the reports of increased NIL are correct.

I know Coach Caldwell will give lip service to honoring Pat and the Lady Vol traditions and legacy. She really needs to understand our history and make sure the LVFLs are still active participants in the program. The support of Tamika, Candace, Draya, Jordan and even Rickea could really help her in the short and long term.

We as LV fans need to welcome our new coach and continue to support our program with dollars and attendance. I know I will do my best to get up to Knoxville for a couple of games this year.

Finally I will eagerly await the day when DW is no longer our AD.

So you eagerly await the departure of one of the best AD’s in the country? Brilliant

 

[Majors]

LOL!! I bet you thought the Life of Brian was a documentary.

Considering I was 2 when it came out. Might need to close the age gap discussion to something in the 1984-current timeline .

 

[AllVols3]

C'mon, VF.

They both have winning resumes with incredible win-loss records.

Miller was National Coach of the Year in back-to-back years. She was her conference COY in 2023 and in her new conference finals twice despite not winning that conference even though she crushed it at her previous stop. I think you're letting your preferences guide a selective narrative.

Miller and Caldwell have very similar records. You just like Caldwell better. Either would have been a big dice roll.

And neither was likely to bring any players with them or have established recruiting ties with elite recruits. That is always going to be a huge challenge when elevating coaches from midrange ranks, which probably explains why top D1 assistants get promoted from within or hired away.

I like Caldwell just fine so far and vastly prefer her to some of the tainted characters who had bigger names. But her hire is exactly the opposite of what most of the most vocal Kellie-replacers assured us that Wizard White with his master plan and home run hire that he'd had in place for months was going to spring upon an unsuspecting and awed basketball world.

Now all the backtracking and scrambling and mansplaining has begun and the "prepare to be amazed" boasts have been replaced by the weak sauce mantra 'I trust Danny."

I hope Kim is the answer, and I could not have cared less whether she is from the "Summitt tree" or not (unlike many, I would not have idiotically held that against her, either). I would like posters to be honest enough in their assessments re: whether the results will be viewed as an upgrade, rerun, or downgrade from previous staffs. And not have double standards, which we've already seen re: comparisons between Kim and Kellie re: previous records.

I will predict without having to try hard that some of those defending and even boasting about White's decision will either be lambasting Kim (and the players, which has already begun) or blaming Kellie (which has already begun proactively) if not pleased. The same people insisting that Sweet Sixteens and third-place conference finishes are unacceptable results are now the ones urging "patience."
[/QUOTE
Well said, bravo!!

 

[Majors]

This was also going to be true even if Kellie had remained. I believe a new coach with a new beginning and energy will help with the portal rather than the same ol same ol with Kellie.

Business decision when you’ve seen what life without RJ looks like.

 

[Lucy]

So you eagerly await the departure of one of the best AD’s in the country? Brilliant

“best” is in the eye of the beholder.
He didn’t hire men’s bb coach, he didn’t hire the baseball coach, he didn’t hire the softball coach. Those are the big successful teams right? I’m not diminishing track or swimming at all but football, men’s and women’s basketball, softball and baseball are the sports that move the needle.
Regarding football, I like Heupel a lot. He has pulled our football program out of the burning dumpster. But, we are not good enough yet to win the SEC East championship, the SEC or get into the Nattie picture. Hopefully we will get there in the next few years. So currently football is a good, not great, hire.
DW gets a lot of credit for teams he had nothing to do with.
I give him adequate, certainly not one of the best. Relief over the football program has led, IMO, to grading DW too high.

 

[jp1]

When is the last time that a major program in need of a coach, men or women, said: "Huh, I wonder if there are any good coaches
in Div. II?" USC just hired a new men's coach--nabbed him from Arkansas. Arkansas, now needing a coach, tried to hire the well-respected coach
at Ole Miss and then the coach at Kansas State. They declined, so Arkansas pitched Calipari at Kentucky--and got him! Their ADs didn't say, "Ah, to hell with established winners, lemme see if there are any good coaches with 1 year of mid-major experience." Nobody does that. It is virtually unprecedented.

If Barnes retired tomorrow, would White say: "Hmmm, I've got my eye on this guy who killed it in Div. II and just had a super year at Appalachian State. He could be the answer." Would he? Would the men's fan base be happy with that? No, they would not. And I doubt White would do it--but knowing him, I wouldn't rule it out.

He did just that, in a sport bigger than basketball, with CJH.

 

[Majors]

“best” is in the eye of the beholder.

Says someone who wanted Kellie to get 1-2 more years.