Thoughts on UT's Win over Wyoming

[TENNFOLD1974]

We can't go into the Memphis, Charlotte & Kansas games playing a first half like we did last night against Wyoming or we can be looking at 3 losses in these games. We really need to get our act together b4 conference play kicks in.

 

[got orange]

no not really.. I'll take our '88-'90 conference championships and holiday bowl wins... over a non-ranked out conference opponent anyday. But since we were playing Tenn today, I just thought I'd bring it up :birgits_giggle:

LOL? You'll take a Mountain West conference championship from the 80s?!?!?! HAHAHAHHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow.....

Congrats champ.

Oh. But since we were playing last night, Wyoming lost by 19.

Good day. eace2:

 

[cnvol]

I could not disagree more with your #8. Brian Williams is worthless. He plays like a robot just going through the motions, can't hit a lay up, and has a 2 inch vertical. Williams couldn't be more worthless.

 

[ejb8910]

We have no movement in the halfcourt offense. Just a lot of standing around. This is what frustrates me because it is the same thing that killed us in close games last year.

 

[NYYVol]

JP may have flipped the so-called switch.

That doesn't mean squat when the bulb is blown.
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[volfan2024]

1. In any organized sport, you play with your strengths. Clearly, the strength of this team is quality depth that opponents do not have. That makes this a marathon, not a sprint. Fans should get used to close first halves that turn into not so close 2nd halves

2. Sometimes a team looks like they are going to bust your game plan, but you have to be patient. Wyoming started 4-7 from Three Point range and would have been 5 for 8 if the PG didn't step on the baseline before they knocked down that 5th one. The ignorant fan screams and pitches a fit, but the serious BB fan just waits. Wyoming proceeded to miss their next 14 three point shots and ended up below their abysmal 21% average. That's game-planning.

3. I liked our defense a lot tonight. Our players were supposed to let Wyoming take three pointers. Them hitting over 50% of those to start, them shooting 17 free throws in the first half, and our guys missing some good shots from the perimeter, had them in this game early.

4. Think about 17 FTs in the first half for Wyoming. These were two teams that liked to run, two teams that shot an equal amount of three pointers, yet we had 19 FTs for the entire game. Need I say that "these refs sucked". I'm not sure I've seen a first half of such poor officiating outside of Memorial Gym or Rupp Arena.

5. JP Prince has turned the light on. He only scored 4 points, but he only attempted 5 shots and he had 6 rebounds, 6 assists, and 4 steals. A very nice game by JP.

6. I thought Scotty also played within himself. He clearly has lost some confidence and it is harming his long-range shot. But he was still 7 of 12 from the field and really hustled on defense. He still needs to hit the glass harder.

7. This was the best game played by our PGs IMO. Probably because of Pearl's scheme and Wyoming's game plan (which basically put the ball in Tyler Smith's hands way too much for them; if a guy is 2nd in the NCAA in assist to turnovers, you probably don't want to game-plan the ball into his hands). Maze and Goins took smart shots. Goins got jobbed on 2 bad charge calls. Their assists were down, but that was because Tyler and JP were handling the ball a lot and between them they had 12 of UT's 18 assists.

8. Brian Williams seems to be improving. I don't know if they have stats on it, but he may lead this team in traditional three point plays.

9. Tyler is struggling a bit at the FT line this year. As much as he handles the ball, that has got to change for us to be successful. If he shoots 75% tonight, the Vols would have shot almost 79% as a team.

10. Some nights you just have a bad shooting night. I thought our guys took some good shots, but we just couldn't get them to go down. Between them, Wayne, Cam, Scotty, and Skyler went 2 for 13 from three point range.

11. This game in the first 20 minutes really came down to things we can't do a lot about. Wyoming's initial hot shooting, the refs' terrible first half, and our cold shooting early made this a lot closer early than it should have been. Sometimes focus has a lot to do with this stuff and I'm sure Wyoming playing a top 10 team helped their focus and us playing another bad team hurt our focus and that can lead to getting cross-ways on both ends of the court where shooting is concerned. Ultimately, however, we ended up shooting 47.6% and they finished at 37.8%. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

12. Ultimately, the jury is still out. 5 of the next 6 games (sorry NC A&T) will tell us whether this team is a legitimate contender for the Final Four or still has too many issues to make that kind of run.

Without reading the entire essay, I do agree the our quality of depth is defintely why we are winning.

 

[Wise-Vol]

People were pitching a fit about the wide open threes they were (apparently) getting. I didn't watch the game, but that sounds about right considering what we are used to seeing. That's not ignorance, that's frustration with the lack of defense that has become a pretty consistent problem. That said, the team should be commended for correcting the problem in this particular game.

That is most definitely ignorance. Only basketball morons would want us to overplay a 21% three point shooting team. That would have been the dumbest strategy we could have employed by giving Wyoming exactly what they wanted -- drives to the basket. We didn't correct anything. We stuck to the very wise game-plan and a 21% three point shooting team started missing those open three pointers.

The Vols shot poorly from the perimeter last night, Wyoming played the half of their lives in the first half and we win by 20.

I think we have a pretty good sample size at this point for a lot of teams. Tennessee looks like a more talented version of last year. In a weak SEC, that is going to be good for a lot of regular season wins and a high seed. However, they are going to need a very favorable draw to be a legitimate threat to reach the Final Four, at least based on what we have seen so far. Much like last year, competent guards are going to toast them pretty much all year, if they hit a team with good players in the front court to go along with that, their style simply isn't going to get it done.

Everyone needs a favorable draw to get to the Final Four. The problem with the more naive portion of our fanbase is they don't realize that they don't watch (and evaluate) the 9 games that every other top 20 team has played this season. Thus, while everyone is creaming themselves over John Wall and Kentucky because they saw the UConn or UNC game, they didn't see the Sam Houston State game where KY needed the refs to haul their asses out of the fire against a bad team at home.

Meanwhile, the Vols have played two bad games -- a bad game against DePaul, which we won, and a bad game against the #4 team in the nation, which we should have won, but lost by 1 point. And we have played a tougher schedule than Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan State, UNC, and Memphis, to name a few.

Woe is us.

 

[Wise-Vol]

We can't go into the Memphis, Charlotte & Kansas games playing a first half like we did last night against Wyoming or we can be looking at 3 losses in these games. We really need to get our act together b4 conference play kicks in.

Actually, we went on the road to Memphis a couple of years ago and played a similar first half against the #1 team in the nation. The biggest difference was that Jajuan Smith and Wayne Chism actually hit some threes, but Lofton couldn't buy one and we shot 31% as a team.

But, like last night, our game-plan worked because a terrible three point shooting Memphis team couldn't continue to hit like they did in the first half and ended up shooting 29% from three point range. That game wasn't pretty either, but JP Prince and Tyler Smith stepped up and hauled across across the finish line.

 

[growski82]

And we have played a tougher schedule than Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan State, UNC, and Memphis, to name a few.

Woe is us.

According to the Sagarin rankings, th UT schedule is ranked 215. Kansas is 290, UNC is 224, Mich State is 190, Kentucky is 235, Memphis is 293. However, Kentucky is 2-0 against top 25, UNC is 2-2, Mich St is 0-2, Memphis is 0-1, Kansas is 0-0. I think Tenn as most definitely played a harder schedule than Kansas and Memphis. I think UNC has played some tougher opponents than Tenn though. They've played SU, Kentucky, Mich St, and Ohio St already. Maybe the "bad" teams on their schedule have been worse than the bad teams on Tenn schedule, but if tenn had played those four teams, anyone think they'd be better than 2-2 against them? Kentucky has also played more good teams than Tenn. They've had UNC and Uconn. Again, their bad teams are worse than Tenn. Overall, UNC and Kentucky have played a more difficult schedule than Tenn, despite the number rankings.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Everyone needs a favorable draw to get to the Final Four. The problem with the more naive portion of our fanbase is they don't realize that they don't watch (and evaluate) the 9 games that every other top 20 team has played this season. Thus, while everyone is creaming themselves over John Wall and Kentucky because they saw the UConn or UNC game, they didn't see the Sam Houston State game where KY needed the refs to haul their asses out of the fire against a bad team at home.

Meanwhile, the Vols have played two bad games -- a bad game against DePaul, which we won, and a bad game against the #4 team in the nation, which we should have won, but lost by 1 point. And we have played a tougher schedule than Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan State, UNC, and Memphis, to name a few.

Woe is us.

no everyone does not need a favorable draw to get to the final 4. Everyone needs to play well and win the big possessions to get to the final 4.

Pretending that our schedule is as tough as KYs is absurd.

Woe is us because we are not coached to handle big possessions on either end.

 

[Wise-Vol]

no everyone does not need a favorable draw to get to the final 4. Everyone needs to play well and win the big possessions to get to the final 4.

Pretending that our schedule is as tough as KYs is absurd.

Woe is us because we are not coached to handle big possessions on either end.

Sounds like you have some arguments with Coach Pearl and the RPI.

Coach Pearl believes that draw has a ton do with getting to the Final Four.

The RPI has UT's schedule strength higher than those teams noted. :dunno:

 

[Shaun1985]

Nice read and very detailed. The only issue I have with this team, which we will soon find out shortly, is how good they have improved from last year. I love the fact that our pressure bothers a lot of these early teams, and some in SEC play, but it almost means nothing against well coached, balanced teams, with similar or equal depth. We obviously have the talent but when we have to substitute turnover points for a weak half court offense, it exposes so many other weaknesses that we normally wouldn't see when getting points off of those turnovers.

Also, two huge issues I have with Bruce Pearl is....

1.) The constant green light that players get on offense. (Should Woolridge and Chism REALLY be chucking up 3's???)

2.) Textbook substitutions. I understand keeping fresh bodies in to execute your defense effectively and Defense rules over Offense all day but, for perfect example, when Hopson tagged those 6 points in the 2nd half, was deflecting balls on defense, why take him out to put an overhyped walk-on in that hasn't done crap in ANY game situations. Hopson is obviously a more go to guy but has been greatly inconsistant. Still, being the 'off today, on tomorrow' player he is, he is still a 110% upgrade over McBrick. What is Pearls deal with this kid. Geez! I just don't understand how Pearl substitutes sometimes. It seems like no matter who has the hot hands in that moment "Oh, it's this time and these players need to go in, regardless of how they are playing".

 

[emainvol]

That is most definitely ignorance. Only basketball morons would want us to overplay a 21% three point shooting team. That would have been the dumbest strategy we could have employed by giving Wyoming exactly what they wanted -- drives to the basket. We didn't correct anything. We stuck to the very wise game-plan and a 21% three point shooting team started missing those open three pointers.

The Vols shot poorly from the perimeter last night, Wyoming played the half of their lives in the first half and we win by 20.



Everyone needs a favorable draw to get to the Final Four. The problem with the more naive portion of our fanbase is they don't realize that they don't watch (and evaluate) the 9 games that every other top 20 team has played this season. Thus, while everyone is creaming themselves over John Wall and Kentucky because they saw the UConn or UNC game, they didn't see the Sam Houston State game where KY needed the refs to haul their asses out of the fire against a bad team at home.

Meanwhile, the Vols have played two bad games -- a bad game against DePaul, which we won, and a bad game against the #4 team in the nation, which we should have won, but lost by 1 point. And we have played a tougher schedule than Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan State, UNC, and Memphis, to name a few.

Woe is us.

Did I pee in your wheaties or something?

If you don't think that Tennessee's consistently allowing wide open looks from 3 is a problem, I don't know what to tell you. You simply cannot look at this team and tell me that defense is not a problem. If you are making that claim, THAT is ignorance.

 

[emainvol]

Sounds like you have some arguments with Coach Pearl and the RPI.

Coach Pearl believes that draw has a ton do with getting to the Final Four.

The RPI has UT's schedule strength higher than those teams noted. :dunno:

The RPI also has William and Mary and Southern Miss ranked ahead of Kansas. Are you prepared to argue that they are better teams than Kansas?

 

[NYYVol]

The RPI also has William and Mary and Southern Miss ranked ahead of Kansas. Are you prepared to argue that they are better teams than Kansas?

William & Mary just has a Final Four appearance in the bag.
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[Shaun1985]

RPI is pointless this time of the year and shouldn't even be released until late January. I kind of think Pearl was in a "no win" situation mode on defense last night though. This team is pretty weak at almost everything other than shooting freethrows. Common sense would tell you to keep them away from the basket (less likely to be fouled) and they started draining it lights out. If you adjust and force them inside, with the way officiating was last night, I believe they get the same points a different way (freethrow line) so maybe sticking with the original plan was risky but the smartest thing. We were getting turnovers but they were still shooting lights out so....not much you can do I guess.

 

[MikeHamiltonFan]

Wise Vol I like your posts so far very much.

I watched a team of freshmen in UK struggle against bad teams. I also noted that John Wall did not join the team until a few games in and he is their best player by far.

TN has 4 seniors, so bad games cannot be blamed on youth and inexperience.

Kentucky has played a harder schedule than UT. I am not doing a baseline RPI, I am saying that Syracuse, Kentucky and Georgetown have the best OOC resumes out there thus far in the season and that will be clear in March. Florida got hammered by Syracuse but still has some great OOC wins to hang its hat on as well. TN will play a Charlotte team that should do quite well, and TN can get a very nice OOC win against Memphis. Even if we lose against Kansas, we should be able to play our way to a 2 seed this year, and if we beat Kansas and lose no more than 3-4 SEC games we could get a 1 seed. There is no UNC of last year out there this time around. Everyone has some weaknesses. Texas has played no one, same for WVU, but most of the undefeated teams seem to have some areas of concern.

I would not want a draw that saw us playing Kansas again, Syracuse, UNC or Georgetown (who beat Temple, Butler and Washington all teams I consider good-very good). I think the most overrated top teams seem to be Villanova (which I have been saying since before the loss), Texas, Duke maybe if they lose to Gonzaga and prove the Wisconsin loss was not a fluke on Dec. 19th and West Virginia who will lose to either Purdue or Ole Miss.

Having watched the rest of the SEC play a ton, I think TN is ranked correctly right now.

Alabama, Miss. State and Ole Miss are capable of beating us in the west, Kentucky is the only team in the league with more talent than us (arguably Miss State if Sidney is added to the roster ever) and Florida and Vanderbilt and even South Carolina can beat us if they have certain things happen (Boynton, Jenkins or Downey go off).

All that said, I agree that we should have better results than last year.

It is funny how I probably disagree with both sides because I view my position as the only reasonable one and everyone else probably thinks the same of their opinion. I thought Emain had a nice response to you before you took him to task.

The breakdown in the communication is simple. You are saying that we left Wyoming open for 3 on purpose cause like Memphis they suck at shooting them, and he is thinking of playing KY last year and Christmas and others having career days on these same players and is saying that his concern is that we cannot stop 3 point shooters.

Anyway, I love UT, I am a big CBP fan, I think the SEC could be as good as the 3rd best conference in bball this year although it is probably 4th and I think that TN can get to the Final Four with a favorable draw.

I also think you bring a good take to the board. Thanks for posting.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Sounds like you have some arguments with Coach Pearl and the RPI.

Coach Pearl believes that draw has a ton do with getting to the Final Four.

The RPI has UT's schedule strength higher than those teams noted. :dunno:

Draw has a ton to do with it because of our very flawed basketball team.

The RPI is utterly garbage in the early season and using RPI average to justify SOS when playing team 120 and 250 is effectively the same game, yet impacts SOS dramatically. Awful argument. KY has beaten some quality basketball teams. UT has not. UNC has played a couple of legit games. MSU has played a reasonable schedule to date. We have not

 

[MikeHamiltonFan]

Draw has a ton to do with it because of our very flawed basketball team.

The RPI is utterly garbage in the early season and using RPI average to justify SOS when playing team 120 and 250 is effectively the same game, yet impacts SOS dramatically. Awful argument. KY has beaten some quality basketball teams. UT has not. UNC has played a couple of legit games. MSU has played a reasonable schedule to date. We have not

But BPV, I think we will all agree that by January 11th we can all draw some great conclusions about relative strength for conferences and the strength of every SEC team.

Less than a month from some serious answers.

I hope Chism and T Smith and Kenny Hall (who i like much more than B Williams who seems to be in trouble) can eat the Gators up inside like Boeheims crew did.

 

[hatvol96]

Draw has a ton to do with it because of our very flawed basketball team.

The RPI is utterly garbage in the early season and using RPI average to justify SOS when playing team 120 and 250 is effectively the same game, yet impacts SOS dramatically. Awful argument. KY has beaten some quality basketball teams. UT has not. UNC has played a couple of legit games. MSU has played a reasonable schedule to date. We have not

At the end of the season, the RPI would tell me playing Auburn, Oregon, NC State, and Rutgers is a tougher schedule than playing Kansas, West Virginia, Houston Baptist, and NJIT. That's why I couldn't care less what the RPI says about schedule strength.

 

[Wise-Vol]

The RPI also has William and Mary and Southern Miss ranked ahead of Kansas. Are you prepared to argue that they are better teams than Kansas?

The point was about the RPI's SOS, not about the RPI rankings generally.

 

[emainvol]

The point was about the RPI's SOS, not about the RPI rankings generally.

And what do you think they base those rankings on?

 

[emainvol]

At the end of the season, the RPI would tell me playing Auburn, Oregon, NC State, and Rutgers is a tougher schedule than playing Kansas, West Virginia, Houston Baptist, and NJIT. That's why I couldn't care less what the RPI says about schedule strength.

Agreed.

 

[Wise-Vol]

And what do you think they base those rankings on?

I don't really care because the original point wasn't about the RPI rankings. I'm not sure what you are arguing about or who you are arguing with because you aren't arguing with me about the point I made.

 

[emainvol]

I don't really care because the original point wasn't about the RPI rankings. I'm not sure what you are arguing about or who you are arguing with because you aren't arguing with me about the point I made.

So, the RPI SOS rankings are fine, but the RPI rankings that are based heavily on those SOS rankings aren't? That makes no sense.

Bottom line, Tennessee has played a great Purdue team and a so-so DePaul team. Michigan St. has played Gonzaga, UNC and Florida. Kentucky has UNC, UConn and a decent Indiana squad. Both teams' schedules trump Tennessee's at this point. Hell, you can go ahead and throw UNC on there, too. Kentucky, Michigan St. and Ohio St.