To Protect and to Serve II

[Rickyvol77]

No no no... not just private entities. Nice try. You know good and damn well that the states and local officials across the country have been terrorizing folks. You do realize there is a bigger world out there than just Knox County, right? You do realize that law enforcement has been involved in enforcing these Draconian measures, right?

You complain about NYPD arrests for example but it’s for trespassing because businesses tell unmasked people to leave. Which is 100% their right. Knox county sheriff and KPD isn’t enforcing a courts order on ensuring kids are masked in school with threats of arrest . Why do you think that is

 

[Rickyvol77]

Leave it to Ricky to come to the defense of the boys in blue.

How’s that defense? I don’t think she should have been arrested. The facts aren’t just as stated by some here with some convenient things left out. Like this woman is a nutjob and has been involved in DCS the last three years

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You complain about NYPD arrests for example but it’s for trespassing because businesses tell unmasked people to leave. Which is 100% their right. Knox county sheriff and KPD isn’t enforcing a courts order on ensuring kids are masked in school with threats of arrest . Why do you think that is

Do we have to go back to the cops showing up to break up Easter 2020 church services in Mississippi and Kentucky? Cops in Southern California chasing people off beaches? Idaho police arresting mom's on playgrounds with their kids?

 

[Rickyvol77]

Do we have to go back to the cops showing up to break up Easter 2020 church services in Mississippi and Kentucky? Cops in Southern California chasing people off beaches? Idaho police arresting mom's on playgrounds with their kids?

- police only placed Covid protocol reminders on windshields in one Kentucky town during one church service. So what? Definitely not the end of times or even a violation of constitution
- the incident in one small town in Mississippi was a little worse IMO where officers gave citations but that was a curfew violation order by the mayor. I’m sure the public will fix that next election.
- California is California but enforcing social distance things on beaches is dumb, but again. That’s who they elected there. Much like I think “banning large soft drinks” and plastic straws in CA and NY is idiotic
- the Idaho thing probably shouldn’t have been an arrest but the mom was also a moron and apologized for her behavior. She was simply arrested for simple trespassing, which any can be for causing disturbances in a park and refusing to leave. Which she did. Whether you agree with her opinion or not

These isolated incidents are hardly worth freaking out about. If you disagree with the politics and mandates of your politicians, vote them out.

 

[VolStrom]

How’s that defense? I don’t think she should have been arrested. The facts aren’t just as stated by some here with some convenient things left out. Like this woman is a nutjob and has been involved in DCS the last three years

Sorry Ricky, but you always take the hard ass side to everything. Your lens of seeing people is through a jaded one where you seem to see the worst in everyone. People aren't all crap until you find the good in them. People are mostly good until you push the crap out of them.

 

[Matt2496]

- police only placed Covid protocol reminders on windshields in one Kentucky town during one church service. So what? Definitely not the end of times or even a violation of constitution
- the incident in one small town in Mississippi was a little worse IMO where officers gave citations but that was a curfew violation order by the mayor. I’m sure the public will fix that next election.
- California is California but enforcing social distance things on beaches is dumb, but again. That’s who they elected there. Much like I think “banning large soft drinks” and plastic straws in CA and NY is idiotic
- the Idaho thing probably shouldn’t have been an arrest but the mom was also a moron and apologized for her behavior. She was simply arrested for simple trespassing, which any can be for causing disturbances in a park and refusing to leave. Which she did. Whether you agree with her opinion or not

These isolated incidents are hardly worth freaking out about. If you disagree with the politics and mandates of your politicians, vote them out.

To your first point, they were actually recording license plate numbers of people going to church as well.

Also, you’re making his point for him. Cops will always side with politicians over the people.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

These isolated incidents are hardly worth freaking out about. If you disagree with the politics and mandates of your politicians, vote them out.

Whenever cops engage in bad behavior, it can't just be dismissed as "isolated incidents" all of the time. Some times, it shows evidence of a systematic problem.

These isolated incidents are hardly worth freaking out about. If you disagree with the politics and mandates of your politicians, vote them out.

And here we go with the "vote harder" nonsense.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Sorry Ricky, but you always take the hard ass side to everything. Your lens of seeing people is through a jaded one where you seem to see the worst in everyone. People aren't all crap until you find the good in them. People are mostly good until you push the crap out of them.

I don’t believe that most people are crap at all. I believe that most on here and in media assume a lot of stuff instead of fact checking or actually trying to understand the entirety of the situations. Or understanding logic, reason, law, procedure and processes and why they exist. But people usually only know anecdotal stuff and emotional feelings

 

[Rickyvol77]

To your first point, they were actually recording license plate numbers of people going to church as well.

Also, you’re making his point for him. Cops will always side with politicians over the people.

Really? So how many officers have forcibly given you a vaccine in your arm or have taken your guns? Why doesn’t KCSO and KPD enforce the politicians will over mask mandates In school? Because that’s what he’s talking about. And there’s nothing illegal about recording license plates either especially as part of a health department quarantine investigation.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Whenever cops engage in bad behavior, it can't just be dismissed as "isolated incidents" all of the time. Some times, it shows evidence of a systematic problem.


And here we go with the "vote harder" nonsense.

So again 4 million encounters with law enforcement and people and you bring me less than 10 incidents of “examples of police tyranny” it’s not systemic at all. You refuse to see it because of your apocalyptic beliefs

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I don’t believe that most people are crap at all. I believe that most on here and in media assume a lot of stuff instead of fact checking or actually trying to understand the entirety of the situations. Or understanding logic, reason, law, procedure and processes and why they exist. But people usually only know anecdotal stuff and emotional feelings

Logic and reason should trump law, procedure or process. I've consistently made that point for years.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Logic and reason should trump law, procedure or process. I've consistently made that point for years.

But you claim ignorance on why trespassing calls happen. Or why police answer and have to respond to domestic violence calls. That’s neither logic nor reason

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Really? So how many officers have forcibly given you a vaccine in your arm or have taken your guns?

If told to do so, they will do it. You seem to place high importance below on health department protocols, so it wouldn't surprise me to see LEOs doing it for that very reason.

Why doesn’t KCSO and KPD enforce the politicians will over mask mandates In school? Because that’s what he’s talking about. And there’s nothing illegal about recording license plates either especially as part of a health department quarantine investigation.

And here you go with this "it isn't illegal" nonsense. Is it ethical? Is it just? For people going to church services? Really?

Why doesn’t KCSO and KPD enforce the politicians will over mask mandates In school? Because that’s what he’s talking about. And there’s nothing illegal about recording license plates either especially as part of a health department quarantine investigation.

Does the Health department have enforcement powers? I don't know, I'm asking. If so, that should be concerning to most people just as much as anything else. Or, do they rely on the police to be the enforcement arm?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

But you claim ignorance on why trespassing calls happen.

I've never claimed ignorance on that. I'm fully aware why the call is made. I've argued that a lot of these calls don't need to be addressed by the police. These are matters that mostly don't (or should not) require police action or involvement. That is what I have been saying.

 

[Rickyvol77]

If told to do so, they will do it. You seem to place high importance below on health department protocols, so it wouldn't surprise me to see LEOs doing it for that very reason.


And here you go with this "it isn't illegal" nonsense. Is it ethical? Is it just? For people going to church services? Really?


Does the Health department have enforcement powers? I don't know, I'm asking. If so, that should be concerning to most people just as much as anything else. Or, do they rely on the police to be the enforcement arm?

I wouldn’t say high importance on health dept just an understanding that if a quarantine health order exists you could be identified in a public setting. You have no expectation of privacy in public. You can argue the ethics or the order itself but it’s hardly some serious issue. The health department can issue orders and there are people right now not allowed to leave their house to go into public without being tracked and it has nothing to do with Covid

 

[Rickyvol77]

I've never claimed ignorance on that. I'm fully aware why the call is made. I've argued that a lot of these calls don't need to be addressed by the police. These are matters that mostly don't (or should not) require police action or involvement. That is what I have been saying.

there is no one to address them. Especially in domestic violence situations

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

there is no one to address them. Especially in domestic violence situations

There is a scale of 1 to 10 on this, you do realize this, right? 1 being "my house guest won't put on his mask" vs 10 being "My house guest just attacked me".

 

[Rickyvol77]

There is a scale of 1 to 10 on this, you do realize this, right? 1 being "my house guest won't put on his mask" vs 10 being "My house guest just attacked me".

Yes but you also understand that
1) the homeowners/business owners are the ones calling police because they tried to stop the issue or make the person leave to no avail
2) domestic violence situations are unique and people involved can’t handle them themselves more often than not for lots of reasons

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Yes but you also understand that
1) the homeowners/business owners are the ones calling police because they tried to stop the issue or make the person leave to no avail

I realize that. Now again. Is it a police matter of such high enough importance that the police insert themselves in a mask issue or a vaccine pass issue?

2) domestic violence situations are unique and people involved can’t handle them themselves more often than not for lots of reasons

People can't choose family, but they can choose the relationships outside of family that they are a part of. Some families fight all the time. Some families just keep their distance from each other. Some couples fight all the time and make up. Some couples continue fighting and the party (allegedly) being abused refuses to leave for whatever reason. Those are not police matters until blood is spilled or bones broken. And knowing just what I've seen in my life, some people "turn it on" once the cops show up and get a bit more animated to try to further incite a reaction for the other person.

 

[Rickyvol77]

I realize that. Now again. Is it a police matter of such high enough importance that the police insert themselves in a mask issue or a vaccine pass issue?


People can't choose family, but they can choose the relationships outside of family that they are a part of. Some families fight all the time. Some families just keep their distance from each other. Some couples fight all the time and make up. Some couples continue fighting and the party (allegedly) being abused refuses to leave for whatever reason. Those are not police matters until blood is spilled or bones broken. And knowing just what I've seen in my life, some people "turn it on" once the cops show up and get a bit more animated to try to further incite a reaction for the other person.

Again if a person or business has someone that refuses to leave their property when asked, what is their recourse? Fight the person? There’s a reason these people call police on the first place because theses idiots cussing disturbances refuse to leave their property.

Just because some families are toxic or abuse each other doesn’t make it right. Obviously someone calls the police in those situations Including abused or scared women, men or children. To assume police should never respond to any call until someone is seriously hurt or injured is naive and simplistic thinking

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Again if a person or business has someone that refuses to leave their property when asked, what is their recourse? Fight the person? There’s a reason these people call police on the first place because theses idiots cussing disturbances refuse to leave their property.

Is fighting someone a reasonable response for them not having a vaccine passport or wearing a mask?

Just because some families are toxic or abuse each other doesn’t make it right.

I didn't say it was right.

Obviously someone calls the police in those situations Including abused or scared women, men or children.

If children are in danger then obviously, that is a different situation than any of the other situations with adults involved.

To assume police should never respond to any call until someone is seriously hurt or injured is naive and simplistic thinking

Damn man, I didn't say never. I specifically went through the trouble of giving you a scale of 1 to 10 to hopefully illustrate to you what is a legitimate time for police action and what is not. Why do you jump to extremes like that to try to make a point?

 

[Rickyvol77]

Is fighting someone a reasonable response for them not having a vaccine passport or wearing a mask?

I didn't say it was right.

If children are in danger then obviously, that is a different situation than any of the other situations with adults involved.


Damn man, I didn't say never. I specifically went through the trouble of giving you a scale of 1 to 10 to hopefully illustrate to you what is a legitimate time for police action and what is not. Why do you jump to extremes like that to try to make a point?

It’s not extremes it’s telling you reality of what happens daily. Dozens of times a day. Adults can be in danger during domestics just as much if not more than kids.
And again how do you propose someone remove someone from their property who is refusing to leave if not physically or with police?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

It’s not extremes it’s telling you reality of what happens daily. Dozens of times a day. Adults can be in danger during domestics just as much if not more than kids.

If adults can call the police when they are having a domestic dispute, they could have just as easily removed themselves from the situation. If an adult can't remove themselves, then you no longer have a domestic dispute, now you have a kidnapping or a hostage situation.

And again how do you propose someone remove someone from their property who is refusing to leave if not physically or with police?

If they decide to fight it out, then they can try that. But a jury should decide if that was a reasonable approach to take. Police would serve themselves not to even come near a lot of these petty domestic disputes. It can potentially lead to bad outcomes.

 

[Rickyvol77]

If adults can call the police when they are having a domestic dispute, they could have just as easily removed themselves from the situation. If an adult can't remove themselves, then you no longer have a domestic dispute, now you have a kidnapping or a hostage situation.


If they decide to fight it out, then they can try that. But a jury should decide if that was a reasonable approach to take. Police would serve themselves not to even come near a lot of these petty domestic disputes. It can potentially lead to bad outcomes.

That’s not how domestics work because people are irrational and emotional and can’t handle themselves more often than not in these situations.

As for the other example, if you had a pro vax person like mad arrive on your lawn and sitting on a lawn chair with a sign that says “this man is anti science” while screaming at you and your neighbors. What you would do?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

That’s not how domestics work because people are irrational and emotional and can’t handle themselves more often than not in these situations.

And that is what you are going to base your case for police involvement in a bunch of these domestic issues? Emotions?

As for the other example, if you had a pro vax person like mad arrive on your lawn and sitting on a lawn chair with a sign that says “this man is anti science” while screaming at you and your neighbors. What you would do?

I would first ask him to leave and then it would likely get physical after that if they don't listen to reason. Maybe some neighbors jump in. Maybe it gets lethal. Then the police and ambulances can come and take one or both to jail and/or one or both to the hospital. Let the courts sort it out at that point.

If only we had laws in place to allow homeowners/private individuals to use the same level of lethal force on their property that the cops can use anywhere they go. But you have argued against that, also.