Transgender Birth Certificates

#76
#76
Roustabout said:
Being threatened by your employer is discrimination, period. Fat? Bald? Ugly? What other special classes are we going to enact? While you can provide an employer an BC, it is not required. A social security, card or passport will suffice. My employer doesn’t have my BC, so it seems a non sequitur. Changing your BC is changing a medical record and is what should require the burden of proof.

I didn’t say it provided a use and was careful in my example. I already provided an example. They enacted it because people were doing it. It was reactionary.
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Fat, bald, and ugly people aren't protected groups and LGBT groups aren't new so I don't know why you act like this is some recent phenomenon. Why ought the employee hide their identity as a transgender? I guess they should know that they'll be discriminated against, eh?

You pointed out that the BC is a medical record, but if there's no use for it as such then I don't know what your point was. And the state was found to not have adequate justification for its reaction, hence the ruling against it.
 
#77
#77
Wafflestomper said:
Fat, bald, and ugly people aren't protected groups and LGBT groups aren't new so I don't know why you act like this is some recent phenomenon. Why ought the employee hide their identity as a transgender? I guess they should know that they'll be discriminated against, eh?

You pointed out that the BC is a medical record, but if there's no use for it as such then I don't know what your point was. And the state was found to not have adequate justification for its reaction, hence the ruling against it.
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New? That hasn’t been a contention of mine.

And neither should be people who think their gender is fluid be afforded “identity” status.

You’re changing the argument. Transgender isn’t an identity. Male is an identity. Female is an identity.
Confused is a state, not an identity.

If there is no use for it, then why change it? Or, Ar best why not just redact sex?

Again, I’ve already provided examples. You’ve ignored them. Typical of your tactics. Move the goal posts.

—Or, you had an activist judge.
 
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#78
#78
Wafflestomper said:
Being humiliated and threatened by your employer for being LGBT doesn't count as discrimination to you?

What medical use does your birth certificate serve? Does your doctor have a copy of yours? Also, Ohio enacted a law in 2016 to prevent you from changing your BC, so they should provide justification for the law rather than the other way around.
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Who is being threatened and humiliated by their employer for being gay in 2020? Do you have specific examples?
 
#79
#79
Septic said:
So you're saying that people who can't spell grammar shouldn't point out how someone elses literacy is lacking?

I'm glad we can agree.
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Spelling and grammar is as fluid as being able to choose which gender you want to be. One is a mental illness though.
 
#85
#85
Roustabout said:
New? That hasn’t been a contention of mine.

And neither should be people who think their gender is fluid be afforded “identity” status.

You’re changing the argument. Transgender isn’t an identity. Male is an identity. Female is an identity.
Confused is a state, not an identity.
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Who gets to determine what someone's identity is if not the person himself? You? Calling them confused is just a reaction to not liking or not understanding their perspective.

Roustabout said:
If there is no use for it, then why change it? Or, Ar best why not just redact sex?
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You made a point of mentioning that a BC is a medical record and then admitted it wasn't used for medical purposes. I never said there was no use for a birth certificate at all, however I also don't really know why sex needs to be on it.

Roustabout said:
Again, I’ve already provided examples. You’ve ignored them. Typical of your tactics. Move the goal posts.

—Or, you had an activist judge.
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I have no idea what examples you're referring to. Examples of what?

We both know why you won't ever affirm a person's transgender identity, and at the root of it are your own "deeply held" beliefs. So calling the judge an activist for not buying the state's "thinly veiled" justification for their law reads to me like projection. And also, you've not provided any actual reasons aside from your own contempt for why persons like yourself or the state have any standing in preventing people from changing the sex on their BC.
 
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#86
#86
Wafflestomper said:
Who gets to determine what someone's identity is if not the person himself? You? Calling them confused is just a reaction to not liking or not understanding their perspective.
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Slippery slope. Identity isn’t determined by your state of mind. Surely you thought about that before you typed it and realized the complete insanity of it? I guess not. Actually, that’s just a prejudicial view. You assume that people who refuse to adopt this view ack empathy or understanding. It’s ********. These folks are confused. And affirming their confusion is not kind or good.


You made a point of mentioning that a BC is a medical record and then admitted it wasn't used for medical purposes. I never said there was no use for a birth certificate at all, however I also don't really know why sex needs to be on it.
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Why is it in it? Why shouldn’t it be?

A birth certificate is used for a number of things. Enrolling in school. That would be rather important if the school were not coed. I can only imagine going into the girls locker room and there is a “girl” in the shower with a penis dangling. But since you said that a person determines their identity, oh well.

Your notion robs women of Identity. I think Gabbard recognizes the very infringements I’m talking about in her proposed legislation.
I have no idea what examples you're referring to. Examples of what?
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Really? You’ve already admitted to missing one of my posts and then tried to blame me for that.
I just provided another above.


We both know why you won't ever affirm a person's transgender identity, and at the root of it are your own "deeply held" beliefs. So calling the judge an activist for not buying the state's "thinly veiled" justification for their law reads to me like projection. And also, you've not provided any actual reasons aside from your own contempt for why persons like yourself or the state have any standing in preventing people from changing the sex on their BC.
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Contempt? Not for the individual, but those like you who try to poison the well as examples in this last paragraph. I have a friend that was born hermaphrodite. I’ve seen the suffering first hand. There is no question they agree that they have a medical condition. In this discussion we are talking about those who are born and correctly identified as biologically male or female being able to change a medical record of that fact. You are saying feelings outweigh facts and can’t even begin to defend the fallout from that type of thinking. Your answer is to try and paint me as something I’m not.

I provided reasons. Reasons but based in my feelings and emotions, but based on how this can infringe in the rights and liberties of others.
 
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#87
#87
Wafflestomper said:
Who gets to determine what someone's identity is if not the person himself? You? Calling them confused is just a reaction to not liking or not understanding their perspective.



You made a point of mentioning that a BC is a medical record and then admitted it wasn't used for medical purposes. I never said there was no use for a birth certificate at all, however I also don't really know why sex needs to be on it.



I have no idea what examples you're referring to. Examples of what?

We both know why you won't ever affirm a person's transgender identity, and at the root of it are your own "deeply held" beliefs. So calling the judge an activist for not buying the state's "thinly veiled" justification for their law reads to me like projection. And also, you've not provided any actual reasons aside from your own contempt for why persons like yourself or the state have any standing in preventing people from changing the sex on their BC.
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Science dictates a person's sex. You can pretend to be a female if you are a male, and you can pretend to be a cat if you are a human, but it doesn't make it so....it is a mental illness and having worked with the mentally ill for decades, i can assure you the most damaging thing you can do is feed into their delusional thinking
 
#88
#88
Wafflestomper said:
Being humiliated and threatened by your employer for being LGBT doesn't count as discrimination to you?

What medical use does your birth certificate serve? Does your doctor have a copy of yours? Also, Ohio enacted a law in 2016 to prevent you from changing your BC, so they should provide justification for the law rather than the other way around.
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Is it ok to discriminate against people with face/neck tattoos?
 
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#89
#89
hog88 said:
Is it ok to discriminate against people with face/neck tattoos?
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What do you mean by "ok" and "discriminate" in this context? Do I think it's okay to humiliate and threaten people with face and neck tattoos? No.

But are you equating people who have tattoos with transgender people somehow? In what way is this a good analogy? People who have tattoos usually don't consider them to be an intrinsic part of who they are in the sense that it causes them pain to consider their identity without them.
 
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#90
#90
Wafflestomper said:
What do you mean by "ok" and "discriminate" in this context? Do I think it's okay to humiliate and threaten people with face and neck tattoos? No.

But are you equating people who have tattoos with transgender people somehow? In what way is this a good analogy? People who have tattoos usually don't consider them to be an intrinsic part of who they are in the sense that it causes them pain to consider their identity without them.
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So having face/neck tattoos isn’t a mental illness but they can be judged simply by their appearance.
 
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#91
#91
Wafflestomper said:
What do you mean by "ok" and "discriminate" in this context? Do I think it's okay to humiliate and threaten people with face and neck tattoos? No.

But are you equating people who have tattoos with transgender people somehow? In what way is this a good analogy? People who have tattoos usually don't consider them to be an intrinsic part of who they are in the sense that it causes them pain to consider their identity without them.
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You can’t humiliate or threaten anyone.

I’m comparing face tattoos to transgender because both are a choice. If I’m allowed to discriminate against one why can’t I discriminate against the other?
 
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#92
#92
Rickyvol77 said:
Science dictates a person's sex. You can pretend to be a female if you are a male, and you can pretend to be a cat if you are a human, but it doesn't make it so....it is a mental illness and having worked with the mentally ill for decades, i can assure you the most damaging thing you can do is feed into their delusional thinking
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Science dictates a person's sex in the same way that science dictates which direction the earth rotates, i.e., it doesn't. Science is about observation and not dictation.
 
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#94
#94
You are what you are when you're born with only a few very rare exceptions. If you're born with an XY, testicles, prostate etc you're a male. If you have XX, a uterus and ovaries you're a female. Removing or adding exterior parts and taking hormones does not change your sex.
 
#96
#96
Sea Ray said:
You are what you are when you're born with only a few very rare exceptions. If you're born with an XY, testicles, prostate etc you're a male. If you have XX, a uterus and ovaries you're a female. Removing or adding exterior parts and taking hormones does not change your sex.
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Its a mental illness. Nothing more.
 
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#100
#100
Is Bruce/Kaitlyn Jenner a boy or a girl. He/she takes hormones, had surgery to add bombs and a few other cosmetic items but still has male parts below the waist.
 
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