Transgender Birth Certificates

#201
#201
ClearwaterVol said:
Again, what is the harm? All I really see is people saying I should be able refer to you in a manner incompatible with how you see yourself. What is your motivation to do so?
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The line has to be drawn somewhere. You can support people in them being able to be whatever they want to be but it doesn’t mean the rest of society should have to participate in it.
 
#202
#202
Sea Ray said:
If they want society to "recognize them" then they are not asking to be left alone. They're asking us for something and we can answer yes or no
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They're not asking you for permission to be transgender because they dont need it. Government exists to secure life, liberty, and property. If what they're doing does not infringe on your pursuit of these objectives then you (and by extension, the government) has no standing to obstruct it. Your personal feelings about it are irrelevant.
 
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#203
#203
ClearwaterVol said:
As far as I know we are talking about both. And I am not sure weather window dressing, as you put vs. full change of equipment really matters in the analysis of the issue you raised.
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It does matter whether a person has actually changed sexes or as you put it "presenting themselves to the world" as a different sex. Should a man that puts on a wig, dress and lipstick get the advantage of female physical fitness standards over a man that doesn't? Should a woman with short hair that wears flannel, drives a Forrester and calls herself Bob be held to male standards? How about sports? Should a male that "identifies" as a female and has his BC changed to female get a college scholarship for athletics over a female?
 
#204
#204
Sea Ray said:
You said I brought it up. That's not factually correct. I had nothing to do with bringing it up.

You have a problem with facts. You can't competently argue a subject if you don't have a grasp of the facts. Get better on that please
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Yes, let's quibble over semantics to avoid the fact that you have no cogent argument on the subject at hand.
 
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#205
#205
Wafflestomper said:
They're not asking you for permission to be transgender because they dont need it. Government exists to secure life, liberty, and property. If what they're doing does not infringe on your pursuit of these objectives then you (and by extension, the government) has no standing to obstruct it. Your personal feelings about it are irrelevant.
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Do it w/o falsifying documents. That's all I ask
 
#207
#207
hog88 said:
Ahh, but in certain situations it is a benefit to be of a different sex since the government has different standards in many jobs between females and males.
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So people are switching genders to cheat government standards? The hypotheticals in this thread are legitimately insane
 
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#209
#209
C-south said:
The line has to be drawn somewhere. You can support people in them being able to be whatever they want to be but it doesn’t mean the rest of society should have to participate in it.
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If you’re suggesting that society collectively tell trans people “no, you’re saying you’re a man but we don’t recognize that at all,” then how are you “supporting them in being whatever they want to be?” Constantly fighting back and telling them they’re wrong/lying/cheating the government for benefits isn’t “support”
 
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#210
#210
NashVol11 said:
So people are switching genders to cheat government standards? The hypotheticals in this thread are legitimately insane
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Again, we are not talking about people who ACTUALLY switch genders. We're talking about people that present themselves as the opposite gender.
 
#212
#212
NashVol11 said:
If you’re suggesting that society collectively tell trans people “no, you’re saying you’re a man but we don’t recognize that at all,” then how are you “supporting them in being whatever they want to be?” Constantly fighting back and telling them they’re wrong/lying/cheating the government for benefits isn’t “support”
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I’m saying I’m cool with anyone pretending to be whatever they want. Trying to make the other 99.9999% of the population accept it as normal is ridiculous. Changing government documents to cater to someone’s feelings is ridiculous. The other bs is just another side effect. Girls on steroids competing with adolescent boys. Boys competing with girls. It’s just ridiculous. People need to realize they don’t have to be catered to and there will be limitations on what they can do based on their choices, mental illness,....whatever you want to call it.
 
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#214
#214
NashVol11 said:
OK. That doesn’t make the hypo any less crazy
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It's not crazy, it's already happened. There are several examples if you care to look them up.

If the .gov would do away with all differences in standards and quotas between men and women then fine what's on the birth certificate doesn't matter.
 
#215
#215
ClearwaterVol said:
Again, what is the harm? All I really see is people saying I should be able refer to you in a manner incompatible with how you see yourself. What is your motivation to do so?
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SO again, if someone says they are a cat and you should treat them as a cat, are you going to?
 
#216
#216
NashVol11 said:
If you’re suggesting that society collectively tell trans people “no, you’re saying you’re a man but we don’t recognize that at all,” then how are you “supporting them in being whatever they want to be?” Constantly fighting back and telling them they’re wrong/lying/cheating the government for benefits isn’t “support”
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because they ARE wrong....just because they "believe" they are something they are not doesn't alter the reality and truth of the situation
 
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#217
#217
C-south said:
I’m saying I’m cool with anyone pretending to be whatever they want. Trying to make the other 99.9999% of the population accept it as normal is ridiculous. Changing government documents to cater to someone’s feelings is ridiculous. The other bs is just another side effect. Girls on steroids competing with adolescent boys. Boys competing with girls. It’s just ridiculous. People need to realize they don’t have to be catered to and there will be limitations on what they can do based on their choices, mental illness,....whatever you want to call it.
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What about performing surgery to “cater to someone’s feelings?” Is that ridiculous?

I’m glad you changed from “supporting them in being what they want” to “cool with them pretending,” because that is very very far from support
 
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#219
#219
NashVol11 said:
What about performing surgery to “cater to someone’s feelings?” Is that ridiculous?

I’m glad you changed from “supporting them in being what they want” to “cool with them pretending,” because that is very very far from support
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As long as they’re paying for it.
 
#221
#221
C-south said:
As long as they’re paying for it.
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OK, well if you’re fine with people having surgery so that their body/appearance matches their gender identity, and fine with people changing their names, licenses and other government documents for the same reason, then changing BCs seems a strange hill to die on
 
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#222
#222
NashVol11 said:
OK, well if you’re fine with people having surgery so that their body/appearance matches their gender identity, and fine with people changing their names, licenses and other government documents for the same reason, then changing BCs seems a strange hill to die on
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I only agree with it after they’ve completed their reassignment completely. Even still there needs to be an asterisks.
 
#224
#224
I am a pirate. Do you think I can find a surgeon to chop off one of my legs and install a wooden stick? Maybe get me one of those hooks for my right hand?
 
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