Trump's Term in Retrospect - Opinion Poll

[tnmarktx]

Comprehensive foreign policy? It's different. The ranking of bogeymen changed. He ramped up a trade war. He implemented travel bans. Tactfully calling friends "shithole countries". Lots of stuff is different. I'm talking about our foreign interventions. You keep trying to expand the conversation because you're having difficulty with my points.

Nothing about our interventionist foreign policy is vastly different. You can say it is until your blue in the face, but I've been laying out facts that refute that and all you have to say is that I'm delusional and dishonest, or you make the implication that I'm dumb.

You haven't laid out any facts. You posted a number of troop draw down, that's it. That does not reflect foreign policy. You then spoke of a trade war, which is a result of a vastly different foreign policy. Thanks for making my point.

 

[n_huffhines]

You haven't laid out any facts. You posted a number of troop draw down, that's it. That does not reflect foreign policy. You then spoke of a trade war, which is a result of a vastly different foreign policy. Thanks for making my point.

I was always talking about interventionism. You said "pointless wars" and I've been talking about that in response for the last 5 posts, and I've clarified that at least a couple times when you tried to weasel out of that specific discussion.

Facts I've shared about Trump interventionism:

- Increasing number of bombs dropped in Afghanistan.
- Slowing the trend of troop withdrawal.
- That "we remain everywhere that we were on January 20, 2017 when he took office."

Facts you've shared about Trump interventionism:

 

[tnmarktx]

I was always talking about interventionism. You said "pointless wars" and I've been talking about that in response for the last 5 posts, and I've clarified that at least a couple times when you tried to weasel out of that specific discussion.

Facts I've shared about Trump interventionism:

- Increasing number of bombs dropped in Afghanistan.
- Slowing the trend of troop withdrawal.
- That "we remain everywhere that we were on January 20, 2017 when he took office."

Facts you've shared about Trump interventionism:

Ramped up trade war, by your own admission
No new wars
Making others pay their fair share.

All of your supposed facts are actually the same thing...

 

[LouderVol]

Comprehensive foreign policy? It's different. The ranking of bogeymen changed. He ramped up a trade war. He implemented travel bans. Tactfully calling friends "shithole countries". Lots of stuff is different. I'm talking about our foreign interventions. You keep trying to expand the conversation because you're having difficulty with my points.

Nothing about our interventionist foreign policy is vastly different. You can say it is until your blue in the face, but I've been laying out facts that refute that and all you have to say is that I'm delusional and dishonest, or you make the implication that I'm dumb.

Would you consider the relative shift from war based intervention to a trade based intervention as enough of a change to note?

You seem to arguing the number of countries we are still intervening with hasnt changed.

 

[n_huffhines]

Would you consider the relative shift from war based intervention to a trade based intervention as enough of a change to note?

You seem to arguing the number of countries we are still intervening with hasnt changed.

The trade changes are not an intervention.

It's fine to note that trade policy has changed but the conversation I am having is that our interventionist foreign policy is not "vastly different". I can't really tell a difference at all.

 

[n_huffhines]

Ramped up trade war, by your own admission
No new wars
Making others pay their fair share.

All of your supposed facts are actually the same thing...

I am not even sure we speak the same language, at this point.

 

[LouderVol]

The trade changes are not an intervention.

It's fine to note that trade policy has changed but the conversation I am having is that our interventionist foreign policy is not "vastly different". I can't really tell a difference at all.

Ok I see what you are saying now. You are considering them separate issues. Understandable.

I think it comes down to the definition of vastly, and who is defining it. The ME peace talks would have been world changing events if Obama had done it for most of the world.

 

[n_huffhines]

Ok I see what you are saying now. You are considering them separate issues. Understandable.

I think it comes down to the definition of vastly, and who is defining it. The ME peace talks would have been world changing events if Obama had done it for most of the world.

Make the last 4 years an Obama term with all the same ME dealing and interventionist policy and both sides completely flip their view of it.

 

[Grand Vol]

He mostly just moved pieces around the board. Lots of talk. No meaningful change in direction actually happened. As I already stated, record bombs in Afghanistan.

He had all the power he needed to bring troops home and he brought home like 30k troops, which may sound like a lot but 150k were brought home under Obama, so Trump slowed the progress we were making in that regard.

View attachment 340759

This chart is slightly misleading.

 

[tnmarktx]

I am not even sure we speak the same language, at this point.

I'm sorry you don't like the truth. Thus the division will always continue.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

He mostly just moved pieces around the board. Lots of talk. No meaningful change in direction actually happened. As I already stated, record bombs in Afghanistan.

He had all the power he needed to bring troops home and he brought home like 30k troops, which may sound like a lot but 150k were brought home under Obama, so Trump slowed the progress we were making in that regard.

View attachment 340759

That chart means absolutely nothing, lefty.

 

[Terrells Bay88]

I said this 2 years ago and now it's even more apparent

You were correct in your analysis. The truth can't just be relative to one individual.

 

[LouderVol]

Make the last 4 years an Obama term with all the same ME dealing and interventionist policy and both sides completely flip their view of it.

Agreed. It goes for literally everything in politics.

Look at Trump himself.

Ask any redhatter back in 2014 what they thought of Trump, and they would have given you an expletive filled tirade. Ask people like Luther and he wouldnt have said anything about how he is the worst person since ever.

 

[LouderVol]

That chart means absolutely nothing, lefty.

Why not? What would you like to see?

I can agree that Obama had more room for change than Trump did, so it can be misleading in that regard. But it still presents information, and I dont see anyone directly challenging the truthfulness of the information.

If it's not a bald faced lie, which it could be, what specifically would you prefer to see there?

It's a two dimensional chart, of two different data types, it's going to be an over simplification no matter what.

 

[Grand Vol]

Why not? What would you like to see?

I can agree that Obama had more room for change than Trump did, so it can be misleading in that regard. But it still presents information, and I dont see anyone directly challenging the truthfulness of the information.

If it's not a bald faced lie, which it could be, what specifically would you prefer to see there?

It's a two dimensional chart, of two different data types, it's going to be an over simplification no matter what.

Huff actually already said it. The numbers on the "chart" represent Obama moving pieces around overseas rather than drawing down.

Plus, it appears that chart actually counts troops stationed overseas as part of its numbers.

Anyway, I'll give Obama credit for drawing down (again) in Afghanistan after shoving in nearly 100K troops in his first six months. But I think the intent of what many of us are saying was Trump didn't get us involved in anything new. There were no Libya or Syria or returns to Iraq on his watch. That's pretty unique for a President this day in age.

 

[LouderVol]

Huff actually already said it. The numbers on the "chart" represent Obama moving pieces around overseas rather than drawing down.

Plus, it appears that chart actually counts troops stationed overseas as part of its numbers.

Anyway, I'll give Obama credit for drawing down (again) in Afghanistan after shoving in nearly 100K troops in his first six months. But I think the intent of what many of us are saying was Trump didn't get us involved in anything new. There were no Libya or Syria or returns to Iraq on his watch. That's pretty unique for a President this day in age.

And that is not what the chart is about. People are bringing up different data sets in order to avoid dealing with the chart.

 

[Grand Vol]

And that is not what the chart is about. People are bringing up different data sets in order to avoid dealing with the chart.

Boy, you are feisty today like Hog mentioned.

The "chart" speaks to numbers of US Forces outside of the mainland United States. As well as the numbers as they go up and down. I'm saying it didn't take into account those forces that have been overseas since 1945, hence, the chart is not specific to those in say Germany or Japan as opposed to those in Afghanistan or Syria.

Plus, Obama did start the drawdown in Afghanistan as I already admitted. However, it came to a screeching halt before he and Trump high fived in 2017. Trump has begun a new drawdown which hopefully Biden continues to get us the **** out of that country.

 

[Roustabout]

I like a lot of things Trump worked on during his presidency. I don’t support tariffs, but I also understood Trump was postering to negotiate. It worked. Gas was cheap and energy independence. The economy was the best in my 25 year career. No new foreign conflicts :

That said I think his term will do far more long term damage because it galvanized an opposition response. Biden wasn’t elected. Trump was defeated. They literally had to run off about two dozen candidates and force Biden as the choice because he was the most likely to get moderate votes. The extreme left see this as a rubber stamp for their agenda items. If Trump supported it, it must be bad and if he opposed it, it must be good.

 

[n_huffhines]

I like a lot of things Trump worked on during his presidency. I don’t support tariffs, but I also understood Trump was postering to negotiate. It worked. Gas was cheap and energy independence. The economy was the best in my 25 year career. No new foreign conflicts :

That said I think his term will do far more long term damage because it galvanized an opposition response. Biden wasn’t elected. Trump was defeated. They literally had to run off about two dozen candidates and force Biden as the choice because he was the most likely to get moderate votes. The extreme left see this as a rubber stamp for their agenda items. If Trump supported it, it must be bad and if he opposed it, it must be good.

It worked? What? It worked as a political tool. It didn't work to get us in better trade deals on the net. He got us out of NAFTA only to allow the dems to write the USMCA but they basically just rewrote the same agreement, making it slightly worse. He got Canada to lower tariffs on dairy, but that was gonna happen anyway with our Europe deal that he walked away from. We predictably got nowhere with China. This all came at a great cost to American consumers.