TrumPutinGate

#6,626
#6,626
luthervol said:
I 100% without a shadow of doubt believe the left has the moral high ground on this practice. It's not even close. I also believe that this practice allowed Trump to win.
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Ha ha ha.

Oh, Luther. You do post some funny troll posts every once in a while.
 
#6,628
#6,628
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Yea, first it's the russians and fake news. Now it's morals. He's like a coin flipping.
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Not sure of your point about morals. Russians and fake news are intertwined.

Here's an anecdotal example. My 78 year old mother told me she could never vote for Trump. She said she had considered voting for Clinton but when it came time to cast her vote she couldn't get over the images of late term abortions and the fact that Hillary supported them. She went on to explain that she had seen it on facebook countless times leading up to the election. My mom is not computer savvy in the least and her grand kids gave her a tablet and taught her to use facebook. Somehow she got on the "list" of people who were concerned over the abortion issue and daily received fake and twisted news that caused her to not vote for Hillary.......so there's one vote.

This same scenario played out millions of times on millions of facebook accounts. We will never be able to measure the impact, but to deny it had an impact is delusional. And facebook was only one of the tools.
 
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#6,629
#6,629
luthervol said:
Not sure of your point about morals. Russians and fake news are intertwined.

Here's an anecdotal example. My 78 year old mother told me she could never vote for Trump. She said she had considered voting for Clinton but when it came time to cast her vote she couldn't get over the images of late term abortions and the fact that Hillary supported them. She went on to explain that she had seen it on facebook countless times leading up to the election. My mom is not computer savvy in the least and her grand kids gave her a tablet and taught her to use facebook. Somehow she got on the "list" of people who were concerned over the abortion issue and daily received fake and twisted news that caused her to not vote for Hillary.......so there's one vote.

This same scenario played out millions of times on millions of facebook accounts. We will never be able to measure the impact, but to deny it had an impact is delusional. And facebook was only one of the tools.
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Are you saying late term abortions are a pretty thing? I have all the news sites on my Facebook. Every day it's something about Russia, yet there's been zero evidence. So how's it bad if it effects one side, but not the other? Look how many people are crying Russia (even here), because they saw some news suggest it.
 
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#6,630
#6,630
luthervol said:
Not sure of your point about morals. Russians and fake news are intertwined.

Here's an anecdotal example. My 78 year old mother told me she could never vote for Trump. She said she had considered voting for Clinton but when it came time to cast her vote she couldn't get over the images of late term abortions and the fact that Hillary supported them. She went on to explain that she had seen it on facebook countless times leading up to the election. My mom is not computer savvy in the least and her grand kids gave her a tablet and taught her to use facebook. Somehow she got on the "list" of people who were concerned over the abortion issue and daily received fake and twisted news that caused her to not vote for Hillary.......so there's one vote.

This same scenario played out millions of times on millions of facebook accounts. We will never be able to measure the impact, but to deny it had an impact is delusional. And facebook was only one of the tools.
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How is that any different than the left running ads or littering facebook showing dirty rivers, smog clouds and kids with asthma and claiming that's what the republicans want?

Plus, if a person isn't savvy enough to discern reality from fakery maybe it's better that they not vote.
 
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#6,631
#6,631
luthervol said:
Not sure of your point about morals. Russians and fake news are intertwined.

Here's an anecdotal example. My 78 year old mother told me she could never vote for Trump. She said she had considered voting for Clinton but when it came time to cast her vote she couldn't get over the images of late term abortions and the fact that Hillary supported them. She went on to explain that she had seen it on facebook countless times leading up to the election. My mom is not computer savvy in the least and her grand kids gave her a tablet and taught her to use facebook. Somehow she got on the "list" of people who were concerned over the abortion issue and daily received fake and twisted news that caused her to not vote for Hillary.......so there's one vote.

This same scenario played out millions of times on millions of facebook accounts. We will never be able to measure the impact, but to deny it had an impact is delusional. And facebook was only one of the tools.
Click to expand...
That isn't fake news. Sounds like she educated herself on the subject by reading up on it and made an informed decision.
 
#6,632
#6,632
hog88 and Joevol33,

Of course late term abortions are not pretty, that's why no one supports them, and that's what made the news fake. What fake or misleading news have you seen on Russia? It's a growing investigation. The reports I've seen have been accurate.

It would be no different than showing kids with asthma and claiming that's what the republicans want. That is a great example of fake / misleading news that has no place. The right did that type of crap ten fold over the left. It's all horrible, but in no way equally used.

As to hog's last point; the problem is those people do vote. My mom was at least smart enough to vote 3rd party. Out of the millions of people not savvy enough to discern reality from fakery....Trump carried 83%.
 
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#6,634
#6,634
luthervol said:
hog88 and Joevol33,

Of course late term abortions are not pretty, that's why no one supports them, and that's what made the news fake. What fake or misleading news have you seen on Russia? It's a growing investigation. The reports I've seen have been accurate.

It would be no different than showing kids with asthma and claiming that's what the republicans want. That is a great example of fake / misleading news that has no place. The right did that type of crap ten fold over the left. It's all horrible, but in no way equally used.

As to hog's last point; the problem is those people do vote. My mom was at least smart enough to vote 3rd party. Out of the millions of people not savvy enough to discern reality from fakery....Trump carried 83%.
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I don't know what TV channels you watch (I don't do facebook so I have no reference) but I travel quite a bit and some of the ads ran in battleground states by the left were disgusting. Outright lies and distortions, neither side has any moral ground to stand on in this discussion.
 
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#6,635
#6,635
hog88 said:
I don't know what TV channels you watch (I don't do facebook so I have no reference) but I travel quite a bit and some of the ads ran in battleground states by the left were disgusting. Outright lies and distortions, neither side has any moral ground to stand on in this discussion.
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A lot of political ads on TV are crap. It's an indictment on society that they are effective. The only positive difference is that you are forced to see the crap from both sides. Facebook (which I don't do either) and other social media is different from TV in that you are primarily only fed the crap from one side (depending on your profile). This is the issue from the past election. One side fed the public more fake news crap than the other - by a large margin. For all of you that disagree with that conclusion, in a round about way, you're proving my point.
 
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#6,636
#6,636
luthervol said:
Not sure of your point about morals. Russians and fake news are intertwined.

Here's an anecdotal example. My 78 year old mother told me she could never vote for Trump. She said she had considered voting for Clinton but when it came time to cast her vote she couldn't get over the images of late term abortions and the fact that Hillary supported them. She went on to explain that she had seen it on facebook countless times leading up to the election. My mom is not computer savvy in the least and her grand kids gave her a tablet and taught her to use facebook. Somehow she got on the "list" of people who were concerned over the abortion issue and daily received fake and twisted news that caused her to not vote for Hillary.......so there's one vote.

This same scenario played out millions of times on millions of facebook accounts. We will never be able to measure the impact, but to deny it had an impact is delusional. And facebook was only one of the tools.
Click to expand...

And it worked both ways. This is the problem of social media. It's far too easy for people to be fed false or misrepresented information.

I saw this numerous times throughout the year on my facebook feed from my liberal friends. But they would never respond or delete once they became aware of the obvious falsehood. I know people that actually thought this was a breakdown of the complete federal budget.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...art-federal-spending-circulating-internet-mi/

Budget_pie_chart_meme.jpg
 
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#6,637
#6,637
luthervol said:
Are you insane? You may not be capable of legitimate conversation and debate.
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The images are not fake news. Abortion is ugly no matter when it happens. She did what 50% of what voters need to do. Research the candidates stance on different views. Sounds like you have a smart mom, what happened to you?
 
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#6,638
#6,638
Obviously fake news and false stories have an impact on people. Man shoots up an abortion clinic and said something about baby parts. Another man shoots up a pizza joint because the DNC was running a child sex ring. Those examples were not from the Russians but from conservative news outlets and the people committing these crimes were obviously influenced by the stories.

If you can't see how a lie can influence someones behavior, I suggest you read "The Production of Reality". I will give an example from the social group most influenced by peers, children. One kid tells another that Jon has cooties. The word of Jon's cooties spreads quickly and by the end of the day everyone In Ms. Smith's class believes Jon has cooties and will not go near him.

The fact that lies influence peoples behavior is undebatable and the fact that repetition of information (true or false) increases retention is also undebatable. The concept of advertising is based on the repetition of information and targeting people based on web history is the foundation of internet marketing. We also know for a fact that ISIS does this to radicalize Muslims around the world and to even suggest the russian efforts had no impact is ignorant about How people learn and how internet marketing work.
 
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#6,639
#6,639
luthervol said:
A lot of political ads on TV are crap. It's an indictment on society that they are effective. The only positive difference is that you are forced to see the crap from both sides. Facebook (which I don't do either) and other social media is different from TV in that you are primarily only fed the crap from one side (depending on your profile). This is the issue from the past election. One side fed the public more fake news crap than the other - by a large margin. For all of you that disagree with that conclusion, in a round about way, you're proving my point.
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I'm sure you have stats to back this claim up?

However, while I wait for them I'll say this. What you should be concerned about is the gullibility of the electorate not the perpetrators of the so called "fake news" because both sides are doing it. Soros funded groups are paying people to troll and plant false narratives. The 2020 elections will be an avalanche of this stuff from both sides.
 
#6,640
#6,640
Mick said:
Obviously fake news and false stories have an impact on people. Man shoots up an abortion clinic and said something about baby parts. Another man shoots up a pizza joint because the DNC was running a child sex ring. Those examples were not from the Russians but from conservative news outlets and the people committing these crimes were obviously influenced by the stories.

If you can't see how a lie can influence someones behavior, I suggest you read "The Production of Reality". I will give an example from the social group most influenced by peers, children. One kid tells another that Jon has cooties. The word of Jon's cooties spreads quickly and by the end of the day everyone In Ms. Smith's class believes Jon has cooties and will not go near him.

The fact that lies influence peoples behavior is undebatable and the fact that repetition of information (true or false) increases retention is also undebatable. The concept of advertising is based on the repetition of information and targeting people based on web history is the foundation of internet marketing. We also know for a fact that ISIS does this to radicalize Muslims around the world and to even suggest the russian efforts had no impact is ignorant about How people learn and how internet marketing work.
Click to expand...

Pretty good analysis of what this Trump/Putin thing is all about.
 
#6,641
#6,641
Mick said:
Obviously fake news and false stories have an impact on people. Man shoots up an abortion clinic and said something about baby parts. Another man shoots up a pizza joint because the DNC was running a child sex ring. Those examples were not from the Russians but from conservative news outlets and the people committing these crimes were obviously influenced by the stories.

If you can't see how a lie can influence someones behavior, I suggest you read "The Production of Reality". I will give an example from the social group most influenced by peers, children. One kid tells another that Jon has cooties. The word of Jon's cooties spreads quickly and by the end of the day everyone In Ms. Smith's class believes Jon has cooties and will not go near him.

The fact that lies influence peoples behavior is undebatable and the fact that repetition of information (true or false) increases retention is also undebatable. The concept of advertising is based on the repetition of information and targeting people based on web history is the foundation of internet marketing. We also know for a fact that ISIS does this to radicalize Muslims around the world and to even suggest the russian efforts had no impact is ignorant about How people learn and how internet marketing work.
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Well said. Post of the day.
 
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#6,647
#6,647
The more I think about all this I think it will end up with statements from the investigators saying something to the effect of:

After a full and thorough investigation we have not found evidence of collusion between Trump and the Russians.

The ensuing melt will be glorious.
 
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#6,648
#6,648
theutvolunteers said:
The more I think about all this I think it will end up with statements from the investigators saying something to the effect of:

After a full and thorough investigation we have not found evidence of collusion between Trump and the Russians.

The ensuing melt will be glorious.
Click to expand...

The left knows that already
 
#6,649
#6,649
theutvolunteers said:
The more I think about all this I think it will end up with statements from the investigators saying something to the effect of:

After a full and thorough investigation we have not found evidence of collusion between Trump and the Russians.

The ensuing melt will be glorious.
Click to expand...

Probably the opposite.
 
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