TrumPutinGate

#15,101
#15,101
Mick said:
If he comes out and defends himself in the media then he is a free man. How much leeway do you think he has to comment on the matter?
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Flynn? As much as he would want to but why would he make any comments on such a trivial matter?
 
#15,107
#15,107
OuterBanksVol said:
Russians are clever. This **** flies with lesser educated bible thumpers.
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and showing Jesus against her would have driven the atheists to Clinton.

also white Jesus would have driven BLM people more to Clinton as well.

cause and effect doesn't just work one way there comrade.
 
#15,108
#15,108
Did anyone else watch Frontline's two-part piece on Putin and the US election?
 
#15,110
#15,110
Mick said:
No. was there anything you found interesting?
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A few things. I enjoyed the background on Putin and his rise to President. PBS made him out to be a master manipulator. The dots they attempted to connect about his influencing our election were not solid. There was no smoking gun. Obama's administration apparently knew but did nothing which seems revisionist to me. A phrase used a lot by several people separately, "thumb on the scale", during interviews gave me the impression it was orchestrated. I caught one blatant lie told by someone describing why the Obama admin took a specific course of action.
 
#15,111
#15,111
McDad said:
A few things. I enjoyed the background on Putin and his rise to President. PBS made him out to be a master manipulator. The dots they attempted to connect about his influencing our election were not solid. There was no smoking gun. Obama's administration apparently knew but did nothing which seems revisionist to me. A phrase used a lot by several people separately, "thumb on the scale", during interviews gave me the impression it was orchestrated. I caught one blatant lie told by someone describing why the Obama admin took a specific course of action.
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Thanks, that saved me some time.
 
#15,115
#15,115
AirVol said:
Hey, it was hard for Hillary to campaign in Wisconsin and after having fainting spells every week. Let’s ease up on her a bit, none of this is her fault, ya know.
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This was another interesting point on the Frontline program. PBS made the case that Russia pushed the stories of her faltering health but no one commented on the veracity of the claims. The videos clearly showed her struggling with stamina, balance, etc. But the narrative was devoted to Russia and not explaining the behavior of Hillary.
 
#15,117
#15,117
McDad said:
This was another interesting point on the Frontline program. PBS made the case that Russia pushed the stories of her faltering health but no one commented on the veracity of the claims. The videos clearly showed her struggling with stamina, balance, etc. But the narrative was devoted to Russia and not explaining the behavior of Hillary.
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That's very interesting. The human mind naturally assumes that if a "bad actor" is making claims, or if someone has an obvious motive to make a particular claim, then the claim must not be true. In this case, Russia is the bad actor, so it is just assumed that what they are saying isn't true.

I have no idea what was going on with Hillary's health during the campaign, and stories questioning it from right-leaning media were obviously politically-motivated, but she absolutely did struggle with balance at times and had those coughing fits when she spoke. I think questions about her health are fair questions regardless of who is asking them.

It is like the claims re: Benghazi. Democrats said the inquiries into it were entirely politically-motivated (i.e., if the same thing happened under a Republican administration they wouldn't be concerned with it). Republicans alleged some type of cover-up or nefarious activity took place. Those claims can both be true. They aren't mutually exclusive, but it is easy to think that they are.

Also, the general story of Vladimir Putin, his history, and how he has consolidated power over the years is absolutely fascinating. He's such an enigmatic and complicated figure. This interview with Michael McFaul from a few years ago is really enlightening:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHgp9fLUzpE[/youtube]
 
#15,118
#15,118
05_never_again said:
That's very interesting. The human mind naturally assumes that if a "bad actor" is making claims, or if someone has an obvious motive to make a particular claim, then the claim must not be true. In this case, Russia is the bad actor, so it is just assumed that what they are saying isn't true.

I have no idea what was going on with Hillary's health during the campaign, and stories questioning it from right-leaning media were obviously politically-motivated, but she absolutely did struggle with balance at times and had those coughing fits when she spoke. I think questions about her health are fair questions regardless of who is asking them.

It is like the claims re: Benghazi. Democrats said the inquiries into it were entirely politically-motivated (i.e., if the same thing happened under a Republican administration they wouldn't be concerned with it). Republicans alleged some type of cover-up or nefarious activity took place. Those claims can both be true. They aren't mutually exclusive, but it is easy to think that they are.

Also, the general story of Vladimir Putin, his history, and how he has consolidated power over the years is absolutely fascinating. He's such an enigmatic and complicated figure. This interview with Michael McFaul from a few years ago is really enlightening:
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Easy to consolidate power when you kill your critics.
 
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#15,120
#15,120
Mick said:
Easy to consolidate power when you kill your critics.
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Before you can kill your critics, you have to work yourself into a position of power where people will listen to you if you tell them to eliminate someone. You can't just initially stroll in there, say "kill that guy," and have someone take the order for you.

How he got into the position of kingmaker/power broker in the first place is the real fascinating part. Once you get there, then you can start having people killed.
 
#15,121
#15,121
05_never_again said:
I have no idea what was going on with Hillary's health during the campaign, and stories questioning it from right-leaning media were obviously politically-motivated, but she absolutely did struggle with balance at times and had those coughing fits when she spoke. I think questions about her health are fair questions regardless of who is asking them.
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I agree her health was fair game. Your paragraph sparked some dormant neurons. Were we not subjected to news on Reagan's age and the questions about his ability to serve his full term? Same true for McCain. Cheney's heart health was also news fodder. A candidate's percieved health has been part of campaigns. Hers was somewhat off limits, though.
 
#15,122
#15,122
05_never_again said:
Before you can kill your critics, you have to work yourself into a position of power where people will listen to you if you tell them to eliminate someone. You can't just initially stroll in there, say "kill that guy," and have someone take the order for you.

How he got into the position of kingmaker/power broker in the first place is the real fascinating part. Once you get there, then you can start having people killed.
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I believe that was his job before becoming president. Gather dirt and leverage or kill.
 
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#15,123
#15,123
McDad said:
I agree her health was fair game. Your paragraph sparked some dormant neurons. Were we not subjected to news on Reagan's age and the questions about his ability to serve his full term? Same true for McCain. Cheney's heart health was also news fodder. A candidate's percieved health has been part of campaigns. Hers was somewhat off limits, though.
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Hers was off limits because the mainstream media kind of liked here and really hated the guy she was running against.
 
#15,124
#15,124
05_never_again said:
Hers was off limits because the mainstream media kind of liked here and really hated the guy she was running against.
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Add to the bias your point of Russia as the "bad actor" and we conclude Americans MAY have had media manipulation by Russia but DEFINITELY had media manipulation by American News.
 
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#15,125
#15,125
Mick said:
I believe that was his job before becoming president. Gather dirt and leverage or kill.
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Not really. Putin was a low-level bureaucrat/errand boy and Boris Yeltsin loyalist before he became president. He was hand-picked by Yeltsin and his cronies to be President after Yeltsin stepped down because of his loyalty to him (check out the McFaul interview I linked to).

He's a master manipulator with an insanely high political IQ. He uses it for bad ends, but it is fascinating. The bombing of several apartment complexes in September 1999 were instrumental in rising him to power. Those might have been false flag attacks or at the very least were used as justification for the launching of the Second Chechen War, which made him very publicly popular. Once he had that, he began to be able to run a system where the Russian oligarchs pay patronage to him in exchange for the doling out of public funds. Putin is at the center of the spoke. He's gotten many others to go along with him, because they are financially enriched by the scheme along with Putin personally. At this point, you are able to eliminate those who don't go along with the scheme.
 
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