TrumPutinGate

#15,126
#15,126
05_never_again said:
Not really. Putin was a low-level bureaucrat/errand boy and Boris Yeltsin loyalist before he became president. He was hand-picked by Yeltsin and his cronies to be President after Yeltsin stepped down because of his loyalty to him (check out the McFaul interview I linked to).

He's a master manipulator with an insanely high political IQ. He uses it for bad ends, but it is fascinating. The bombing of several apartment complexes in September 1999 were instrumental in rising him to power. Those might have been false flag attacks or at the very least were used as justification for the launching of the Second Chechen War, which made him very publicly popular. Once he had that, he began to be able to run a system where the Russian oligarchs pay patronage to him in exchange for the doling out of public funds. Putin is at the center of the spoke. He's gotten many others to go along with him, because they are financially enriched by the scheme along with Putin personally. At this point, you are able to eliminate those who don't go along with the scheme.
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He was KGB not some "low-level bureaucrat/errand boy". Became The First Main Directorate of the Committee for State Security of the USSR (PGU KGB) was the organization responsible for foreign operations and intelligence activities by providing for the training and management of covert agents, intelligence collection administration, and the acquisition of foreign and domestic political, scientific and technical intelligence in the Soviet Union.

What he knew allowed his rise but his intelligence allowed him to prosper.
 
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#15,127
#15,127
Mick said:
He was KGB not some "low-level bureaucrat/errand boy".
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I'm talking about the period between the fall of the Soviet Union and when he became head of the FSB (KGB successor organization) in 1998.

He was a relatively low-level guy in the KGB from 1975 until the Soviet Union collapsed, and was a bureaucrat in St. Petersburg/Moscow until Yeltsin made him head of the FSB in 1998. He was Yeltsin's (actually, the oligarchs who controlled Yeltsin) *****, which is why they made him president after Yeltsin stepped down.

He gained massive popularity after those apartment bombings and then cemented it in the early to mid-2000s as oil prices began to rise and there were gobs of money floating around the country. As time has gone on, he's essentially turned the tables on the oligarchs and now he essentially controls them via a system of corruption and patronage.
 
#15,129
#15,129
05_never_again said:
That's very interesting. The human mind naturally assumes that if a "bad actor" is making claims, or if someone has an obvious motive to make a particular claim, then the claim must not be true. In this case, Russia is the bad actor, so it is just assumed that what they are saying isn't true.

I have no idea what was going on with Hillary's health during the campaign, and stories questioning it from right-leaning media were obviously politically-motivated, but she absolutely did struggle with balance at times and had those coughing fits when she spoke. I think questions about her health are fair questions regardless of who is asking them.

It is like the claims re: Benghazi. Democrats said the inquiries into it were entirely politically-motivated (i.e., if the same thing happened under a Republican administration they wouldn't be concerned with it). Republicans alleged some type of cover-up or nefarious activity took place. Those claims can both be true. They aren't mutually exclusive, but it is easy to think that they are.

Also, the general story of Vladimir Putin, his history, and how he has consolidated power over the years is absolutely fascinating. He's such an enigmatic and complicated figure. This interview with Michael McFaul from a few years ago is really enlightening:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHgp9fLUzpE[/youtube]
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cannot be true---not in the case of Clinton's health or in the case of Benghazi. This is more of the BS false equivalency that conservatives are always spouting. Unless someone had/has information showing that Clinton had/has a health problem, to say that she does is just a lie. Indeed, we've learned it was Russian trolling--and picked up by Trump.

Same with Benghazi: Where is the evidence of "nefarious activity" and a coverup? There is none, and never has been. It was all political bull$hit--trading on a real tragedy in a dishonest attempt to tarnish Clinton. You can't say that a claim COULD be true unless there is some evidence to suggest as much.

This is the game played by Trump and the fringe right-wing media--oh, let's lie and then, when asked for proof, say, well, it COULD be true. Anything COULD conceivable be true--but unless there is something to back it up, it is just a lie. This is what Trump tried with his bald-faced lie about 4 million illegal votes in the election. Obviously not true--indeed, not a ounce of truth to it, and then Trump says, well, it could be true and we should investigate Total BULL$HIT. One is not allowed to lie and then claim "it could be true." Get out of here with that.
 
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#15,132
#15,132
Really insightful article on the suckups around Trump. Everyone has met these types of Dbags.

Honestly, this bolsters my view that Trump did NOT conspire with the Russians. I think he skirted it, but didn't go balls deep. There will be no impeachment here for this, but...

The Obstruction of Justice thing... and the likely money laundering will be Trumps undoing.

The Trump campaign's cocktail of stupid (Opinion) - CNN
 
#15,134
#15,134
OuterBanksVol said:
Really insightful article on the suckups around Trump. Everyone has met these types of Dbags.

Honestly, this bolsters my view that Trump did NOT conspire with the Russians. I think he skirted it, but didn't go balls deep. There will be no impeachment here for this, but...

The Obstruction of Justice thing... and the likely money laundering will be Trumps undoing.

The Trump campaign's cocktail of stupid (Opinion) - CNN
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I can see that except for one thing, they did meet with Russians. It would be hard to imagine that the entirety of trumps campaign staff and family was doing shady s**t and trump didn't know. He is a dotard though.
 
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#15,139
#15,139
Are there any Republicans, conservatives, or anti-Hillary posters upset about Russia's interference in the election? I have heard many express their disdain for Trump but is anyone upset that he is our president? Maybe you wanted a better republican to get the nomination.

I have news for you. The Russians screwed you too.
How Putin Helped Trump Defeat His Republican Primary Rivals

Have a nice day.
 
#15,140
#15,140
Looks like Kush and Bone Spur, Jr., are in the crosshairs now. No doubt over the June meeting. But what about finances, too? Could get interesting.
 
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#15,147
#15,147
armchair said:
cannot be true---not in the case of Clinton's health or in the case of Benghazi. This is more of the BS false equivalency that conservatives are always spouting. Unless someone had/has information showing that Clinton had/has a health problem, to say that she does is just a lie.
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She fell/had a concussion in 2012 that led to her developing a blood clot at the base of her brain. This undoubtedly caused the balance issues she obviously had during the campaign. She passed out at the 9/11 memorial just a couple months before election. There was also the issue of her age. If she won, she would have been the oldest president on her election day in history. So was Trump, but it was seemingly OK to bring up concerns about Trump's age, John McCain's health/age, and Ronald Reagan's age.

However, when these points were brought up about Hillary, people became indignant and thought that these questions were off limits, or perhaps even the person making them was sexist.
 
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#15,149
#15,149
05_never_again said:
She fell/had a concussion in 2012 that led to her developing a blood clot at the base of her brain. This undoubtedly caused the balance issues she obviously had during the campaign. She passed out at the 9/11 memorial just a couple months before election. There was also the issue of her age. If she won, she would have been the oldest president on her election day in history. So was Trump, but it was seemingly OK to bring up concerns about Trump's age, John McCain's health/age, and Ronald Reagan's age.

However, when these points were brought up about Hillary, people became indignant and thought that these questions were off limits, or perhaps even the person making them was sexist.
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Absolutely no one said the question of Hilary's age or health was off limits. The only thing I remember being off limits was Trumps tax returns and financials.
 
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#15,150
#15,150
MT LeConte said:
Absolutely no one said the question of Hilary's age or health was off limits. The only thing I remember being off limits was Trumps tax returns and financials.
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lol, people were white knighting all over themselves about it. CNN ran a whole series of articles about it. if I could remember a name I would link it.
 
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