TrumPutinGate

#18,352
#18,352
volinbham said:
Comprehension is hard. I've not advocated for more missiles in Europe - I merely pointed out that is a reason Putin doesn't like the treaty pullout.

I've not declared victory for Trump - I merely pointed out that he's taking an action that Putin is firmly against and it's one more example of Trump doing so but you cling to Trump is a Putin puppet narrative despite mounds of evidence to the contrary.
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The picture I'm gleaming from you is a Putin shaking his fist saying "Damn you Trump".
This is the repercussions from violating the lopsided deal to begin with. Ditch the deal and Victory is ours. You are not cut out for foreign policy discussions if you don't understand posturing. You are going to have to come up with something beside because putin said he doesn't like it.

Tell me why he don't like it?
 
#18,353
#18,353
Mick said:
The picture I'm gleaming from you is a Putin shaking his fist saying "Damn you Trump".
This is the repercussions from violating the lopsided deal to begin with. Ditch the deal and Victory is ours. You are not cut out for foreign policy discussions if you don't understand posturing. You are going to have to come up with something beside because putin said he doesn't like it.

Tell me why he don't like it?
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The counter argument is that Trump is acting at the behest of Putin. There is a long list that's been offered again and again showing that actions taken by this administration have been negative for Putin.

Spare me your insinuation that you understand the subtle world of FP in ways others do not. Your continual instance that Trump is acting in ways to help Putin demonstrates otherwise.
 
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#18,354
#18,354
volinbham said:
The counter argument is that Trump is acting at the behest of Putin. There is a long list that's been offered again and again showing that actions taken by this administration have been negative for Putin.

Spare me your insinuation that you understand the subtle world of FP in ways others do not. Your continual instance that Trump is acting in ways to help Putin demonstrates otherwise.
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All you have to do is point out how it hurts Putin and Russia? It only hurts them if we place nukes in Europe. Do you understand this? It's not an opinion.
 
#18,355
#18,355
Mick said:
All you have to do is point out how it hurts Putin and Russia? It only hurts them if we place nukes in Europe. Do you understand this? It's not an opinion.
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It's more than nukes in Europe and I doubt much will change there though the threat remains.

It hurts them because it creates uncertainty about what we will do. We were the only party abiding the agreement. We are in the stronger position and we had voluntarily hamstrung our own actions while Putin did as he pleased with maybe a "cut that out" from the last administration. We've just expanded our options while theirs have remained relatively stable. There is absolutely no way to interpret this as a pro-Putin move and plenty of ways to see why it is a negative for him and his real leverage. We'll also be bringing China into the next round of negotiation. The deal was a sweetheart for Putin and now it's gone.
 
#18,356
#18,356
Mick said:
The picture I'm gleaming from you is a Putin shaking his fist saying "Damn you Trump".
This is the repercussions from violating the lopsided deal to begin with. Ditch the deal and Victory is ours. You are not cut out for foreign policy discussions if you don't understand posturing. You are going to have to come up with something beside because putin said he doesn't like it.

Tell me why he don't like it?
Click to expand...

Putin doesn’t like it because he knows he can’t compete in an arms race.
 
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#18,359
#18,359
volinbham said:
It's more than nukes in Europe and I doubt much will change there though the threat remains.

It hurts them because it creates uncertainty about what we will do. We were the only party abiding the agreement. We are in the stronger position and we had voluntarily hamstrung our own actions while Putin did as he pleased with maybe a "cut that out" from the last administration. We've just expanded our options while theirs have remained relatively stable. There is absolutely no way to interpret this as a pro-Putin move and plenty of ways to see why it is a negative for him and his real leverage. We'll also be bringing China into the next round of negotiation. The deal was a sweetheart for Putin and now it's gone.
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I think you are confusing doing the right thing for our country as also hurting Russia. Pulling out of the deal is nothing to make a big deal about. It wasn't unexpected. If you notice, you are the only one making a big deal about it as being evidence that Trump isn't Putin's B!tch. That is a stretch from this action alone.
 
#18,362
#18,362
Mick said:
I think you are confusing doing the right thing for our country as also hurting Russia. Pulling out of the deal is nothing to make a big deal about. It wasn't unexpected. If you notice, you are the only one making a big deal about it as being evidence that Trump isn't Putin's B!tch. That is a stretch from this action alone.
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it does hurt Russia. it's just one more example of Trump making a policy action that is negative for Putin. on it's own, it's not much; as a pattern of policy choices it shows more policy actions negative to Russia in 2 years than in the previous administration's 8 years. for some reason though you cling to the narrative that Trump is beholden to Putin. the evidence shows otherwise with this as one more example.
 
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#18,363
#18,363
volinbham said:
it does hurt Russia. it's just one more example of Trump making a policy action that is negative for Putin. on it's own, it's not much; as a pattern of policy choices it shows more policy actions negative to Russia in 2 years than in the previous administration's 8 years. for some reason though you cling to the narrative that Trump is beholden to Putin. the evidence shows otherwise with this as one more example.
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More sanctions form congress and the Treasury, indictments of russians for meddling in the elections. You really want to give Trump's policies credit for those? I'm not seeing what you are.
 
#18,364
#18,364
Spirit-of-America_crowd-15_840x480.jpg
 
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#18,366
#18,366
volinbham said:
arms to Ukraine, Nat gas to Europe, ramp up in military spending
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Nationalism, huh? Prop up the military industrial complex and natural gas exports. Natural gas probably has more of an effect on Russia than the others but that is just trade. What if we start having an arms race and russia doesn't play. They sit this one out and let the US and China go at it.
 
#18,367
#18,367
Mick said:
Nationalism, huh? Prop up the military industrial complex and natural gas exports. Natural gas probably has more of an effect on Russia than the others but that is just trade. What if we start having an arms race and russia doesn't play. They sit this one out and let the US and China go at it.
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The point is that each of these (and the nuke treaty) are all negatives for Putin. The last administration refused to help the Ukraine other than with MRE's and other non-lethal help. Trump authorized real weapons. Russia has not progressed in it's efforts against the Ukraine. Natural gas supplies are the source of power of Russia vis a vis Europe. Providing alternative supplies is a serious threat to that power. We've moved back to military spending increases after declines - this again must be matched. Finally, we removed our impediment to improving our nuclear arsenal.

Bad puppet, bad.
 
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#18,374
#18,374
hog88 said:
I don't know where we are or the Russians are in developing new nuclear or delivery technology. The actual number of warheads doesn't really matter.
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They have stepped up their game. They have subs that are drones that can deliver warheads.

They have finished and tested their new short range missiles as well.
 
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