TrumPutinGate

#21,501
#21,501
NorthDallas40 said:
If I was Trump based on how he botched the reopening on the emails for Killary I’d have fired his ass day 1 of being sworn in. He owes nobody an explanation for any decision he makes within his article 2 powers. Firing Comey should have been a first day todo list item.
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That was more a time frame reference. This FBI investigation started after Comey was fired and then was turned over to Mueller. The Mueller investigation was started literally days later. So I was saying while I can’t remember the exact timeline of when each piece of information came out, it wasn’t like this investigation was the start of the snowball. Things had been percolating for a while when Mueller was appointed.
 
#21,502
#21,502
RockyTop85 said:
That was more a time frame reference. This FBI investigation started after Comey was fired and then was turned over to Mueller. The Mueller investigation was started literally days later. So I was saying while I can’t remember the exact timeline of when each piece of information came out, it wasn’t like this investigation was the start of the snowball. Things had been percolating for a while when Mueller was appointed.
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The percolating came from butthurt.
 
#21,503
#21,503
RockyTop85 said:
That was more a time frame reference. This FBI investigation started after Comey was fired and then was turned over to Mueller. The Mueller investigation was started literally days later. So I was saying while I can’t remember the exact timeline of when each piece of information came out, it wasn’t like this investigation was the start of the snowball. Things had been percolating for a while when Mueller was appointed.
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Yes... they all trace back to a criminally biased FISA warrant against US citizens based on crap politically motivated research. Agreed.
 
#21,508
#21,508
NorthDallas40 said:
Yes... they all trace back to a criminally biased FISA warrant against US citizens based on crap politically motivated research. Agreed.
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The “FISA warrant was illegal” stuff is really just lazy right wing propaganda. Whoever is telling people this ought to lose all credibility. At least from what I understand the argument to be.

There’s no legal basis for invalidating a warrant because the police didn’t include exculpatory evidence. I’ve researched this and tried it more than once. I’d use it as a last ditch defense if Trump was a client, but I would never expect it to be successful. Legally, he probably doesn’t have standing to contest the warrant.

You guys don’t get it. The criminal justice system allows broad discretion to the police and prosecutors because for the last 50 years the courts and legislatures have been slowly eroding the bill of rights to make it easier to catch criminals because people vote for that ****. The takeaway is: stop supporting expansion of government power because it suits what you want in the moment. I’m hopeful that this situation will wake people up to that but acting like Trump or his cronies are being treated any differently than the subject of any other investigation is just not persuasive. They’re not.
 
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#21,509
#21,509
RockyTop85 said:
The “FISA warrant was illegal” stuff is really just lazy right wing propaganda. Whoever is telling people this ought to lose all credibility. At least from what I understand the argument to be.

There’s no legal basis for invalidating a warrant because the police didn’t include exculpatory evidence. I’ve researched this and tried it more than once. I’d use it as a last ditch defense if Trump was a client, but I would never expect it to be successful. Legally, he probably doesn’t have standing to contest the warrant.

You guys don’t get it. The criminal justice system allows broad discretion to the police and prosecutors because for the last 50 years the courts and legislatures have been slowly eroding the bill of rights to make it easier to catch criminals because people vote for that ****. The takeaway is: stop supporting expansion of government power because it suits what you want in the moment. I’m hopeful that this situation will wake people up to that but acting like Trump or his cronies are being treated any differently than the subject of any other investigation is just not persuasive. They’re not.
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Nope do not agree based on the public domain info on the FISA process. Why have the seperate damn court uf they’re just gonna go on unverified made up ****?
 
#21,510
#21,510
hog88 said:
The percolating came from butthurt.
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I feel like my last two responses to ND covered your posts as well.

Trump is being treated just like the subject of any other investigation and the investigation was initiated by one of his appointees, two facts which don’t support your democrat witch hunt theory.
 
#21,511
#21,511
RockyTop85 said:
I feel like my last two responses to ND covered your posts as well.

Trump is being treated just like the subject of any other investigation and the investigation was initiated by one of his appointees, two facts which don’t support your democrat witch hunt theory.
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I never claimed it was a democrat witch hunt, I’ve stated time after time that this is an establishment witch hunt. The political elite and unelected bureaucrat bosses don’t like the apple cart being upset.
 
#21,513
#21,513
NorthDallas40 said:
Nope do not agree based on the public domain info on the FISA process. Why have the seperate damn court uf they’re just gonna go on unverified made up ****?
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🤷🏻‍♂️I’ve made the same arguments in court and on appeal, they were not successful, and I didn’t expect them to be, based on the state of the law when I made the motion. Again talking about TN law but most of the research was federal and my understanding is the federal courts are less hard on LEOs when it comes to 4th amendment.

1. As long as the police didn’t make up the material, they’re probably okay to rely on it.

2. The warrant didn’t target Trump, from my understanding. I’ve never dealt with wire taps, state agencies don’t do much of that, but I doubt Trump even has standing to contest the warrant.

3. Just in terms of plausibility, it was reviewed and approved by a federal judge, who would have been aware of who was being surveiled, who are generally competent people, who would have been literally attaching his name to this thing and so had strong incentive to make sure it was on the up and up.

4. The idea that all of it was made up is still speculation at this point if I’m not mistaken.
 
#21,514
#21,514
RockyTop85 said:
I feel like my last two responses to ND covered your posts as well.

Trump is being treated just like the subject of any other investigation and the investigation was initiated by one of his appointees, two facts which don’t support your democrat witch hunt theory.
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So as a defense attny tell me how you’d attack the proven prejudice in the “insurance policy” FISA warrant. It stinks plain and simple. And you try to tell the world this guy is credible. 99F2DE5B-68E8-4A0A-988A-2FB524D3AC76.jpeg
 
#21,515
#21,515
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Lets back up. You will trust what it says? So if no collusion that's great. Trump has been smeared for 2+ years. And the investigation will push 30 Million. Your fine with your tax money going towards a smear campaign but not a wall?
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The wall only cost 30 million all of a sudden?
 
#21,516
#21,516
RockyTop85 said:
🤷🏻‍♂️I’ve made the same arguments in court and on appeal, they were not successful, and I didn’t expect them to be, based on the state of the law when I made the motion. Again talking about TN law but most of the research was federal and my understanding is the federal courts are less hard on LEOs when it comes to 4th amendment.

1. As long as the police didn’t make up the material, they’re probably okay to rely on it.

2. The warrant didn’t target Trump, from my understanding. I’ve never dealt with wire taps, state agencies don’t do much of that, but I doubt Trump even has standing to contest the warrant.

3. Just in terms of plausibility, it was reviewed and approved by a federal judge, who would have been aware of who was being surveiled, who are generally competent people, who would have been literally attaching his name to this thing and so had strong incentive to make sure it was on the up and up.

4. The idea that all of it was made up is still speculation at this point if I’m not mistaken.
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1. The veracity of the material has been in question from day 1. It was the whole basis for this **** show
2. So the warrant gave 3 hops from page and went back two years. Trump was the target. Page was the useful idiot. Page is still walking around! It was always Trump.
3. So the veracity of the material has already been attacked. Rosenstein signed off on the warrant. You convince me the judge isn’t going to lean on the DOJ and just be a process review
4. Disagree completely. It’s veracity should have been proven before it was used as the basis for a warrant
 
#21,520
#21,520
NorthDallas40 said:
1. The veracity of the material has been in question from day 1. It was the whole basis for this **** show
2. So the warrant gave 3 hops from page and went back two years. Trump was the target. Page was the useful idiot. Page is still walking around! It was always Trump.
3. So the veracity of the material has already been attacked. Rosenstein signed off on the warrant. You convince me the judge isn’t going to lean on the DOJ and just be a process review
4. Disagree completely. It’s veracity should have been proven before it was used as the basis for a warrant
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Not sure what there is to disagree with. I’m not telling you my opinion, I’m telling you what the law is.

You’re saying the procedures of this investigation have been unusual, but they haven’t.

Then you’re saying you don’t trust federal judges to scrutinize warrants so basically there’s no system that you would have been happy with.
 
#21,521
#21,521
RockyTop85 said:
Not sure what there is to disagree with. I’m not telling you my opinion, I’m telling you what the law is.

You’re saying the procedures of this investigation have been unusual, but they haven’t.

Then you’re saying you don’t trust federal judges to scrutinize warrants so basically there’s no system that you would have been happy with.
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Ok I guess were at agree to disagree here on this one too that’s fine.
 
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