TrumPutinGate

[Orange_Vol1321]

There is no bigger anti-Trumper than me and I can tell you I will accept whatever results Mueller produces and tip my hat to him for a job well done.

Collusion is collusion....doesn't really matter if you GAF or not. Trump is toast.

Freak should charge to read this stuff. Comedic gold.

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

One of these things is not like the other.

Lol. Great minds think alike.

 

[DC_Vol]

Aren't you the one who just stated he had certainly ruined his reputation? lol....talk about your personal investment. Only an emotionally invested fool would believe he has damaged his reputation.
I would bet his reputation has risen in more eyes than fallen.

How can you conclude any of that until he submits his report?

Clearly it’s speculation. My opinion. But I’m glad you both asked.

Here’s my reasoning:

1- The allegations behind the basis for the investigation are very serious. Additionally, it’s diverted a lot of energy and attention from the people of the country and has most certainly added to the already wide chasm dividing the country. Anything less than a very serious charge is not going to sit well with the people. If he fails to deliver the goods, get ready for Trump to be a politician’s version of Richard Jewell.

2- it’s clear that Mueller’s camp has several leakers. These have to be high level guys and my guess is the leaks are well coordinated. If they had anything close to what they would like to have, it would have already been leaked or at the very least hinted at.

3- for such serious allegations, the results thus far have been a joke. Not a single charge actually related to Trump, much less collusion.

4- if indeed he had something that indicated treason, as the initial basis of the investigation suggests, it’s not going to be summarized into a report.

In summary, I expect something with the same seriousness of the Steele Dossier that attempts to justify the witch hunt and save the rep of Mueller and the FBI.

Take that conclusion and apply number 1 above. And now you know how I got there.

 

[luthervol]

as will I. I'm betting his popularity might take a hit among some voting blocks if he doesn't find the collusion

yep....There are idiotic voting blocks on both sides.

 

[carlos86]

I predicted this would happen but never really thought they would really say it.

 

[luthervol]

One of these things is not like the other.

I have little doubt Trump will be shown guilty.
However, if I'm wrong, it will not be on Mueller.

 

[volinbham]

I have little doubt Trump will be shown guilty.
However, if I'm wrong, it will not be on Mueller.

who on earth would it be on then?

 

[luthervol]

who on earth would it be on then?

Me

 

[ajvol01]

Please do.
Would you like to go on record about how you feel about Mueller regardless of findings?

Not particularly, no.

I don't know much about him or his investigation.

I will be interested in seeing the report and what was found in regards to the stated purpose of the investigation - Russian interference in the 2016 election.

A few convictions for lying to the FBI and lying to congress aren't very compelling IMO.

Mueller may be legit or he may be a swamp rat. I won't make statements either way until i can see what the investigation turns up.

 

[Mick]

yet getting anti-trump info from the Russians via a 3rd party is cool so long as we call it opposition research. nothing to see here.

What is the element of conspiracy with the Steele dossier?

Yep they hire a research firm as documented, and wouldn't you know it, the guy that firm hired went to the FBI with raw intelligence (something he has done before) and they didn't get crap out of the Million plus they spent financing the research.

 

[DC_Vol]

Please do.
Would you like to go on record about how you feel about Mueller regardless of findings?

This feels similar to the 2016 election. When all you guys were concerned about Trump accepting the election results.

But then a few days later, “But Russia”! “The electoral college must be abolished”

LOL

 

[luthervol]

Not particularly, no.

I don't know much about him or his investigation.

I will be interested in seeing the report and what was found in regards to the stated purpose of the investigation - Russian interference in the 2016 election.

A few convictions for lying to the FBI and lying to congress aren't very compelling IMO.

Mueller may be legit or he may be a swamp rat. I won't make statements either way until i can see what the investigation turns up.

Let's assume the investigation turns up the truth, whatever that may be.

 

[DC_Vol]

What is the element of conspiracy with the Steele dossier?

Yep they hire a research firm as documented, and wouldn't you know it, the guy that firm hired went to the FBI with raw intelligence (something he has done before) and they didn't get crap out of the Million plus they spent financing the research.

Was this the dossier funded by the Clinton campaign? The one where they actually did pay Russians to dig up dirt on their political opposition?

 

[ajvol01]

What is the element of conspiracy with the Steele dossier?

Yep they hire a research firm as documented, and wouldn't you know it, the guy that firm hired went to the FBI with raw intelligence (something he has done before) and they didn't get crap out of the Million plus they spent financing the research.

Are you seriously asking this question?

 

[ajvol01]

Let's assume the investigation turns up the truth, whatever that may be.

No thanks.

I'm not assuming anything. I will wait to see the report.

 

[evillawyer]

What is the element of conspiracy with the Steele dossier?

Yep they hire a research firm as documented, and wouldn't you know it, the guy that firm hired went to the FBI with raw intelligence (something he has done before) and they didn't get crap out of the Million plus they spent financing the research.

Just curious, if this were opposition research, why would Steele make up info or take info back that he knew was false? If the Clinton campaign had tried to run with obviously false information, they would have been toast, and Steele would have damaged his reputation and future paychecks. No one's going to hire someone to do opposition research if that researcher is just going to create stories whole cloth.

 

[volinbham]

What is the element of conspiracy with the Steele dossier?

Yep they hire a research firm as documented, and wouldn't you know it, the guy that firm hired went to the FBI with raw intelligence (something he has done before) and they didn't get crap out of the Million plus they spent financing the research.

a campaign paid for information to use in an election - that information was sourced by Russian government officials and was used by the Clinton campaign (comments from HC in debate) and surrogates (Harry Reid). They knowingly used information from the Russian government to influence the campaign.

A defense is that they did it legally using enough surrogates but in the end the effect is the same - Russian officials used US candidates and surrogates to influence the election.

So are we to say it's cool if you can figure out how to let foreign hostiles impact the election without breaking the law or are we against foreign hostiles impacting elections in general?

Nevermind, I know the answer.

 

[Mick]

2- it’s clear that Mueller’s camp has several leakers. These have to be high level guys and my guess is the leaks are well coordinated. If they had anything close to what they would like to have, it would have already been leaked or at the very least hinted at.

.

Clearly you can't take a hint.

 

[luthervol]

This feels similar to the 2016 election. When all you guys were concerned about Trump accepting the election results.

But then a few days later, “But Russia”! “The electoral college must be abolished”

LOL

Very similar, and my confidence is about at the same level. Lightening very rarely strikes the same person twice. Once is enough.
Trump would have created a sh1t storm had he lost, it was premeditated. He had already laid the groundwork.
If a person has a 99% chance of winning and they win, very few question the legitimacy of the results.
If a person has a 99% chance of winning and they lose, the results instantly become questionable.

 

[luthervol]

No thanks.

I'm not assuming anything. I will wait to see the report.

How will you know if what he reports is the truth? Let me guess, if you agree, it's true; if you disagree, it's false.
Mueller will report the truth. Doubting that shows your whole hand.

 

[volinbham]

Just curious, if this were opposition research, why would Steele make up info or take info back that he knew was false? If the Clinton campaign had tried to run with obviously false information, they would have been toast, and Steele would have damaged his reputation and future paychecks. No one's going to hire someone to do opposition research if that researcher is just going to create stories whole cloth.

you think the Russian government is dumb enough to provide "obviously false" information?

We do know that his primary sources are Russian government officials and people connected to the Russian government. The funders and users of that information knew that to. There is no doubt that Team Clinton and surrogates used information in the campaign that was sourced from the Russian government and connected people.

I'm half stunned and half not at all surprised that anti-Trumpers act like this was all on the up and up and was nothing but legit information. The Clintons were smart enough to put several degrees of separation between themselves and the information.

Here's another puzzler - if Putin and the Russian government was so dead set on Trump becoming President why would they provide Steele with 100% true information that was negative about him? Odd don't you think?

 

[Mick]

Just curious, if this were opposition research, why would Steele make up info or take info back that he knew was false? If the Clinton campaign had tried to run with obviously false information, they would have been toast, and Steele would have damaged his reputation and future paychecks. No one's going to hire someone to do opposition research if that researcher is just going to create stories whole cloth.

He brought back unverified stuff, it was worthless to the Clinton campaign. If he would have exposed the porn star payoffs or discovered a Trump love child, they could have worked with that during the campaign. Steele made his living off the credibility he earned by collecting reliable information.

 

[volinbham]

He brought back unverified stuff, it was worthless to the Clinton campaign. If he would have exposed the porn star payoffs or discovered a Trump love child, they could have worked with that during the campaign. Steele made his living off the credibility he earned by collecting reliable information.

Both HC and Reid used info from the dossier prior to the election. Info that came from the Russians. But no biggie I guess

 

[Mick]

you think the Russian government is dumb enough to provide "obviously false" information?

We do know that his primary sources are Russian government officials and people connected to the Russian government. The funders and users of that information knew that to. There is no doubt that Team Clinton and surrogates used information in the campaign that was sourced from the Russian government and connected people.

I'm half stunned and half not at all surprised that anti-Trumpers act like this was all on the up and up and was nothing but legit information. The Clintons were smart enough to put several degrees of separation between themselves and the information.

Here's another puzzler - if Putin and the Russian government was so dead set on Trump becoming President why would they provide Steele with 100% true information that was negative about him? Odd don't you think?

It wasn't government sanctioned. Trail of dead and missing people in europe and people lost their lives giving us that information.

 

[Velo Vol]

2- it’s clear that Mueller’s camp has several leakers.

Oh? Based on what?