UAB.....HUH? Same old Holley

[PineyBluff Vol]

I will just leave this here for you Holly Lovers to contemplate...

 

[VolBalls33]

Id take Doug Bruno from Depaul tomorrow. With elite athletes he would do wonders for the offense that has looked the same forever, no matter the recruits. Look up Depauls game yesterday, 35 assists on 40 made FG.

 

[LasVegasBill23]

You know what they say about options?

Well I know what they say about opinions... but must confess do not know what they say about options.....

This is what I mean..... Kids make decisions about where to attend school for different reasons..... When I was applying to school.... I was a social creature and wanted a school with good football program so could bask in Saturday culture and everything associated with it.... academics? not as important to me.... for another person it was very different i am sure.....

As a recruited athlete to Tennessee, to the WCBB program, I can see someone being attracted to the history, the vaunted Pat Summit era, the banners in TBA, the chance to play in front of a great fan base.... national TV, etc....

But I do not see a high caliber recruit salivating to play for Holly.... I am sorry for my opinion and to the many loyal followers of Holly.

The 11-12 season she filled in for Pat, and 12-13, 13-14, 14-15, 15-16, 16-17, 17-18, 18-19 starting out with an overtime game vs. University of Alabama - BIRMINGHAM.... not to mention the 4 straight losses to THE Univ of Alabama.... they are good in football.... but not women's basketball.... come on.... where is the program going?

I think I am seeing it all clearly, but many are 180 degrees against my view... and it is oK for all of us I hope the season goes well

 

[sisaq]

I truly respect your opinion. Sayin the truth is the key..

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

I truly respect your opinion. Sayin the truth is the key..

So is the truth that Rennia Davis, Jordan Horston, Jaz Massengill, Rae Burrell , Zaay Green are not high caliber athletes who chose to come play for CHW?

My thing is while I am def not pleased with some of the coaching decisions, outcomes, and results. Again I am not a CHW lover I just want her to succeed because that means the team does but I am not blind to things.

We can’t say high caliber athletes don’t want to come here and play (which when they sign they sign to play for Holly).

Holly is in on many top recruits for 2020 as well. So recruits are showing interest (and on their own dime).

 

[LadyVol1908]

So is the truth that Rennia Davis, Jordan Horston, Jaz Massengill, Rae Burrell , Zaay Green not high caliber athletes who chose to come play for CHW?

My thing is while I am def not pleased with some of the coaching decisions, outcomes, and results.

We can’t say high caliber athletes don’t want to come here and play (which when they sign they sign to play for Holly).

Holly is in on many top recruits for 2020 as well. So recruits are showing interest (and on their own dime).

+10000000000000 x’s 1billion!

 

[madtownvol]

So is the truth that Rennia Davis, Jordan Horston, Jaz Massengill, Rae Burrell , Zaay Green are not high caliber athletes who chose to come play for CHW?

My thing is while I am def not pleased with some of the coaching decisions, outcomes, and results. Again I am not a CHW lover I just want her to succeed because that means the team does but I am not blind to things.

We can’t say high caliber athletes don’t want to come here and play (which when they sign they sign to play for Holly).

Holly is in on many top recruits for 2020 as well. So recruits are showing interest (and on their own dime).

Holly and her staff have proven to be very good at recruiting. Those who argue that top notch HS players commit their college career to the Lady Vols because of "other factors" --oh the history, the banners hanging in the rafters, the Football program (????)-- are doing mental gymnastics to avoid giving Holly credit for anything. And the delicious irony is that they proclaim that they see things as they really ARE unlike "Holly lovers".

The reality is that I don't think there are many Holly "lovers" on this board--other than her close friends and family who may be lurking. Even those of us who are not writing "fire holly" or some variation of that idea on every single post, fully realize that the team's recent performances have fallen below LV standards. As I said throughout last season, Holly's recruiting class was her insurance policy. The last two seasons have been very subpar but she was going to get a window of opportunity-- I was guessing two seasons-- to see if she could turn things around with her new recruits. If the 2018-19 season ends with the LVs finishing mid pack in the SEC and going out early in the NCAA tourney, a coaching change really could be made.

However, I am predicting that the LVs will pull it together and finish 2nd in conference and at least make it to the sweet 16 (I am an optimist). And for those who really, really want me (and others who share my optimism) to be wrong and revel in the thought of gloating over the LVs having a bad year, exactly why are you here on a LV fan board?

 

[Ladyvol777]

Holly and her staff have proven to be very good at recruiting. Those who argue that top notch HS players commit their college career to the Lady Vols because of "other factors" --oh the history, the banners hanging in the rafters, the Football program (????)-- are doing mental gymnastics to avoid giving Holly credit for anything. And the delicious irony is that they proclaim that they see things as they really ARE unlike "Holly lovers".

The reality is that I don't think there are many Holly "lovers" on this board--other than her close friends and family who may be lurking. Even those of us who are not writing "fire holly" or some variation of that idea on every single post, fully realize that the team's recent performances have fallen below LV standards. As I said throughout last season, Holly's recruiting class was her insurance policy. The last two seasons have been very subpar but she was going to get a window of opportunity-- I was guessing two seasons-- to see if she could turn things around with her new recruits. If the 2018-19 season ends with the LVs finishing mid pack in the SEC and going out early in the NCAA tourney, a coaching change really could be made.

However, I am predicting that the LVs will pull it together and finish 2nd in conference and at least make it to the sweet 16 (I am an optimist). And for those who really, really want me (and others who share my optimism) to be wrong and revel in the thought of gloating over the LVs having a bad year, exactly why are you here on a LV fan board?

I so agree with all this. I believe Holly has at least two years. If we get at least a 3 seed in the tournament we will be in the sweet 16. This team will come together and Kasiyahna Kushkituah will be the most improved.

 

[Rickster]

Holly lovers, Holly haters, Holly this, Holly that, the product that is put on the floor is a function of many hands, not just two.

Holly is the head coach but she has a national championship experienced staff and they along with the players are part of a team. It is the team that ultimately succeeds or fails. Posters have nothing to do with it, whether you support the team or not, it is the team that does all the work.

Before you slander anyone on the team, think about what you are doing. It takes a real coward to hide behind a keyboard and take cheap shots and a real fan to stick by the team through thick and thin. Why not be patient and let the coaches do their job. If they can’t, they will be replaced by the people responsible for doing so....not by disgruntled fans who believe they are entitled.

 

[sisaq]

Holly lovers, Holly haters, Holly this, Holly that, the product that is put on the floor is a function of many hands, not just two.

Holly is the head coach but she has a national championship experienced staff and they along with the players are part of a team. It is the team that ultimately succeeds or fails. Posters have nothing to do with it, whether you support the team or not, it is the team that does all the work.

Before you slander anyone on the team, think about what you are doing. It takes a real coward to hide behind a keyboard and take cheap shots and a real fan to stick by the team through thick and thin. Why not be patient and let the coaches do their job. If they can’t, they will be replaced by the people responsible for doing so....not by disgruntled fans who believe they are entitled.

We have Holly lovers, but no Holly haters ok..People who talks about what Holly is not doing are telling the truth. Now, when one talks about individual e.g Kim Kardashian that could classify as hater because she's doing what ever it takes to make money for her self, but when you're a coach with a high profile school and you've coach 7yrs with highly talented players and still stand on the same level, people will complain, and those who complain are not suppose to be simplify as Holly "Haters."

 

[IPleadInsanity]

I think Holly has done a good job of getting the right players on the floor to give us a chance to win late in games. We can't hold her responsible for players missing free throws and easy layups that got us in the hole in the first place. Were 3 and 2 right now if she doesn't make the decision to go to the zone and to play Massengill and Westbrooks on the floor at the same time with Davis and Jackson at the three and four. Maybe she should decide to make those four and a big the starters. Maybe she could get a little more hands on with Westbrooks about her turnovers, but maybe she already is doing that. This is a young team sophomores and freshmen thus far they have played very well. The group of Massengill, Westbrooks, Davis , Jackson, and Green have blitzed both Clemson winning by 12 in one quarter and UAB 16 points in fourth quarter and overtime.

After 5 years of poor free throw shooting, not finishing around the basket and a huge turnover to assist ratio I am starting to think its not the players. If it is we need to change our recruiting parameters.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

We have Holly lovers, but no Holly haters ok..People who talks about what Holly is not doing are telling the truth. Now, when one talks about individual e.g Kim Kardashian that could classify as hater because she's doing what ever it takes to make money for her self, but when you're a coach with a high profile school and you've coach 7yrs with highly talented players and still stand on the same level, people will complain, and those who complain are not suppose to be simplify as Holly "Haters."

Lowering expectations for a program is dumb! I want to see the team do well but I also realize that some of these coaching criticisms are very fair. I want final fours and championships too! However, to say we don’t have Holly lovers and those that just pick at holly to stir the pot is not true some people are overly optimistic and misery loves company for some.

There are some well known members that have suggested things about her looks or her mannerisms. That sir has nothing to do with basketball and would qualify as a hater!

While others have questioned the use of her rotations and not calling timeouts. That would be a fair coaching assessment not a hater. Even those that question is she the right one to lead after some recent results are fair questions. It’s the we couldn’t do any worse by hiring someone else posts that may be a bit skewed.

 

[alexvol]

By a show of hands, how many of us have been to a Lady Vol practice to know what Holly does and doesn’t do?!?!?!

I have been to several and attended 20 or so of Pat's practices.

 

[Ladyvolfan4ever]

I have been to several and attended 20 or so of Pat's practices.

How did you do that? I thought practice was closed to the public. I know Pat used to ave some open practices but haven't heard of open practice now.

 

[Bigorangefaninga]

Holly and her staff have proven to be very good at recruiting. Those who argue that top notch HS players commit their college career to the Lady Vols because of "other factors" --oh the history, the banners hanging in the rafters, the Football program (????)-- are doing mental gymnastics to avoid giving Holly credit for anything. And the delicious irony is that they proclaim that they see things as they really ARE unlike "Holly lovers".

The reality is that I don't think there are many Holly "lovers" on this board--other than her close friends and family who may be lurking. Even those of us who are not writing "fire holly" or some variation of that idea on every single post, fully realize that the team's recent performances have fallen below LV standards. As I said throughout last season, Holly's recruiting class was her insurance policy. The last two seasons have been very subpar but she was going to get a window of opportunity-- I was guessing two seasons-- to see if she could turn things around with her new recruits. If the 2018-19 season ends with the LVs finishing mid pack in the SEC and going out early in the NCAA tourney, a coaching change really could be made.

However, I am predicting that the LVs will pull it together and finish 2nd in conference and at least make it to the sweet 16 (I am an optimist). And for those who really, really want me (and others who share my optimism) to be wrong and revel in the thought of gloating over the LVs having a bad year, exactly why are you here on a LV fan board?

maybe you meant to post Reaves has shown to be a GREAT recruiter, that has been able to bring in top notch players that seem to do nothing once here! Now the excuse is the team is young, heck i guess that will continue to be a excuse because as long as Reaves stays UT will continue to have top recruiting classes with NO results to show for it, but we have the Holly butt lickers that will continue to trot out the same excuse, "but we have top players coming in for next years class" while the team continues to be an also ran, sooner or later we will end up with this same excuse going while no final fours or championships since most of these kids were even born(already half way there at 10 years)! In 6 seasons Holly has lost 54 games, at no point in UT history in a 6 year period has that many losses taken place. I do believe she might, just might be able to stay under 10 losses this year, but the schedule is kind of a joke with pretty much only Texas, Stanford and Notre Dame on it as far as top schools and the SEC doesnt look all that tough. I am just glad we have so many fans of the team that are glad enough to accept Elite 8's as the measuring stick for this program, my my how the mighty have fallen

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

maybe you meant to post Reaves has shown to be a GREAT recruiter, that has been able to bring in top notch players that seem to do nothing once here! Now the excuse is the team is young, heck i guess that will continue to be a excuse because as long as Reaves stays UT will continue to have top recruiting classes with NO results to show for it, but we have the Holly butt lickers that will continue to trot out the same excuse, "but we have top players coming in for next years class" while the team continues to be an also ran, sooner or later we will end up with this same excuse going while no final fours or championships since most of these kids were even born(already half way there at 10 years)! In 6 seasons Holly has lost 54 games, at no point in UT history in a 6 year period has that many losses taken place. I do believe she might, just might be able to stay under 10 losses this year, but the schedule is kind of a joke with pretty much only Texas, Stanford and Notre Dame on it as far as top schools and the SEC doesnt look all that tough. I am just glad we have so many fans of the team that are glad enough to accept Elite 8's as the measuring stick for this program, my my how the mighty have fallen

Nope an E8 is not where we want to be. However, going from a second round out to an E8 with this group would be an improvement. Not something I want to settle for every year but an improvement non the less.

I was looking at the majority of your and they are centered around I am sure that storied program would love to be in the talk about being a part of the final four teams.

 

[Bigorangefaninga]

Nope an E8 is not where we want to be. However, going from a second round out to an E8 with this group would be an improvement. Not something I want to settle for every year but an improvement non the less.

I was looking at the majority of your and they are centered around I am sure that storied program would love to be in the talk about being a part of the final four teams.

So how many years of not being where we want to be do we finally decide that moving on needs to happen? I mean do we just need to go ahead and come to realization that UT and the Lady Vols will never be a top program again? I mean Holly is in her 7th season. I think that is a reasonable amount of time to have at least Played for a NC or come close to it. Getting blown out in Elite 8 as the best thing in 7 seasons isnt progress to me when a team without signing top players like a Ms State has a GREAT actual coach that gets the most out of his players and has played for how many NC? We can sign the top class EVERY year and it means absolutely nothing if the results don't show that! That is where UT is right now, do we allow recruits to dictate where the program goes, because I can almost guarantee you the ladies up there right now, would most likely still be at UT because of who UT is even without Holly being there, sooner or later though that tradition fades away, Bama was there with their football team after 10 years before deciding to no longer take mediocre, i wished our football team and also Lady Vol BB team would take that same example!

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

So how many years of not being where we want to be do we finally decide that moving on needs to happen? I mean do we just need to go ahead and come to realization that UT and the Lady Vols will never be a top program again? I mean Holly is in her 7th season. I think that is a reasonable amount of time to have at least Played for a NC or come close to it. Getting blown out in Elite 8 as the best thing in 7 seasons isnt progress to me when a team without signing top players like a Ms State has a GREAT actual coach that gets the most out of his players and has played for how many NC? We can sign the top class EVERY year and it means absolutely nothing if the results don't show that! That is where UT is right now, do we allow recruits to dictate where the program goes, because I can almost guarantee you the ladies up there right now, would most likely still be at UT because of who UT is even without Holly being there, sooner or later though that tradition fades away, Bama was there with their football team after 10 years before deciding to no longer take mediocre, i wished our football team and also Lady Vol BB team would take that same example!

You’d have to ask coach fulmer that because we don’t decide anything. My point was getting back that deep into the tourney would be a great step for this team. I didn’t say I wanted to settle for it. I’d like to be lifting trophies again sooner rather than later and if that requires a coaching chance so be it. I wouldn’t have a problem with it!

Coach Schaffer is a GREAT coach I agree and he has his team in the N.C. you get no arguement from me there.

I don’t know if the girls stay at UT if CHW wasn’t there and neither do you! It depends on who they brought in that determined whether they stayed at UT or not and that I can agree with. They may stay and play for another coach while some may leave depending on who was brought in.

I am glad you got to vent though! Seemed like you needed it all jokes aside though glad to see your passionate about the LV!

 

[madtownvol]

maybe you meant to post Reaves has shown to be a GREAT recruiter, that has been able to bring in top notch players that seem to do nothing once here! Now the excuse is the team is young, heck i guess that will continue to be a excuse because as long as Reaves stays UT will continue to have top recruiting classes with NO results to show for it, but we have the Holly butt lickers that will continue to trot out the same excuse, "but we have top players coming in for next years class" while the team continues to be an also ran, sooner or later we will end up with this same excuse going while no final fours or championships since most of these kids were even born(already half way there at 10 years)! In 6 seasons Holly has lost 54 games, at no point in UT history in a 6 year period has that many losses taken place. I do believe she might, just might be able to stay under 10 losses this year, but the schedule is kind of a joke with pretty much only Texas, Stanford and Notre Dame on it as far as top schools and the SEC doesnt look all that tough. I am just glad we have so many fans of the team that are glad enough to accept Elite 8's as the measuring stick for this program, my my how the mighty have fallen

It is to much to ask that we discuss the LV without the lewd language? First, no one comes to play for the assistant coach. Head coaches get credit for recruiting successes and failures. Perhaps as the image of using your tongue in particular swirled in your head, you missed my point that I believe Holly has a short window and that a repeat of the last two seasons would likely lead to a change. As Rickster pointed out, though, what I think or you think is IRRELEVANT to what actually happens,. Fulmer is the man who makes the final decisions. I don't understand why the anti-Holly posters continually act as though these so-called Holly lovers (or your more graphic and grotesque take on it-- fantasy?) are directly responsible for Holly's job status. Save your ire for something consequential.

 

[Undercovervol]

There is a big difference between being a "hater" and offering constructive criticism. While some have personally or inappropriately attacked Holly warlick in the past, the reality, I think, is that the vast majority of the "negativity" on this board is warranted as constructive and even obviously needed criticism of the team, coach, mentality, etc. of the current LVs. There have been obvious problems with Warlick's teams sense she became head coach that have been identified ad nauseum: poor offense, especially poor zone offense, mentally fragile players, and often times poor defense, especially man to man defense. For a former all american guard, she has shown little to no ability to develop guard/wing play, particularly point guard play, although she may have lucked into getting an already great guard in Massengill. She horribly failed with Deshields (a generational talent), imo, and the only bright spot of those two seasons were reaching the elite eight. I have come to believe that Deshields was wrongly targeted by our fan base. She has proven in her WNBA career thus far that SHE was the best baller on those teams, not Nared, not Russell.
I could go on and on, but the bottom line is that there is no way to contort Holly's results to fit the LV standard at this point: she has simply under performed in every way. We no longer win the SEC, we haven't reached the final four in 10 years, and two other programs have overtaken the LVs in relevancy and results.
If you're TRULY a fan, you're a fan of the program and its history, not its coach. Although CHW is a LV for life, she hasn't produced to the LV standard, and its in the best interest of the program to replace her. You're wrong to accept mediocrity.

 

[Bigorangefaninga]

I don’t know if the girls stay at UT if CHW wasn’t there and neither do you! It depends on who they brought in that determined whether they stayed at UT or not and that I can agree with. They may stay and play for another coach while some may leave depending on who was brought in.

I am glad you got to vent though! Seemed like you needed it all jokes aside though glad to see your passionate about the LV!

as far as ONE top player that came in unless we literally went and got an absolute no name nobody she would still be doing to UT because of the LV tradition! She hopes to continue that, but I have my doubts that we do anything except stay mediocre as we have for the past 3 years.

As far as asking big poppa plump, he is the LAST person i would ask to fire coaches that are personal friends, he no longer coaches football because he couldnt seperate the wheat from the chaff to begin with! If he had made some assistant coaching changes before he was fired he might not have ever gotten fired!

 

[Bigorangefaninga]

It is to much to ask that we discuss the LV without the lewd language? First, no one comes to play for the assistant coach. Head coaches get credit for recruiting successes and failures. Perhaps as the image of using your tongue in particular swirled in your head, you missed my point that I believe Holly has a short window and that a repeat of the last two seasons would likely lead to a change. As Rickster pointed out, though, what I think or you think is IRRELEVANT to what actually happens,. Fulmer is the man who makes the final decisions. I don't understand why the anti-Holly posters continually act as though these so-called Holly lovers (or your more graphic and grotesque take on it-- fantasy?) are directly responsible for Holly's job status. Save your ire for something consequential.

oh boo hoo, lewd language hahahaha, heard much worse during a girls basketball practice or the thousands of other boards out there! I would suggest if you think that is lewd language maybe posting on message boards isnt meant for you! Now as far as none of us mattering that is probably true, the university has put up with YEARS of mismanagement because we had useless people running the programs especially as AD and Chancellor! Now the continuing of the empty seats hasnt told big poppa plump enough of what A LOT of Lady Vol nation thinks of the program he will let it run into the ground like he did the football team when he wouldnt fire his assistant coaches that were absolutely terrible, so i dont have much faith in him admitting a close personal friend like Holly isnt doing enough to keep her job, i mean he was the 8 is enough wins coach! Also Holly has had 6 seasons to right the ship, her first 3 seasons in conference 42-6, her next 3 she has went 29-19.

Also as far as signing for a head coach, you dont know much about recruiting do you? those that make the relationships with the players are usually the assistants, they are able to spend much more time with the players and usually talk to them more often, visit them more often, its why Dooley being the lazy human he was still signed top 25 classes for UT even though he tried to always be home before dinner every night and didnt talk to players that were just 2 hours away that grew up as UT fans and were a top 150 player(Vonn Bell). Yet he still signed some really good players because his assistants did their jobs well! Just look at the classes before Reaves got to UT and now after. She was always thought as a hot shot recruiter and she has done a heck of a job at UT. Almost every coach keeps a hot shot recruiter on their staff, might not be much of a coach, but they sure can recruit the heck out of a lady or an example a Tee Martin in football, to think its only the head coach being who a player plays for is at best naive!

 

[T_Vol376]

as far as ONE top player that came in unless we literally went and got an absolute no name nobody she would still be doing to UT because of the LV tradition! She hopes to continue that, but I have my doubts that we do anything except stay mediocre as we have for the past 3 years.

As far as asking big poppa plump, he is the LAST person i would ask to fire coaches that are personal friends, he no longer coaches football because he couldnt seperate the wheat from the chaff to begin with! If he had made some assistant coaching changes before he was fired he might not have ever gotten fired!

Wow - seriously? You’re a pig.

 

[madtownvol]

oh boo hoo, lewd language hahahaha, heard much worse during a girls basketball practice or the thousands of other boards out there! I would suggest if you think that is lewd language maybe posting on message boards isnt meant for you! Now as far as none of us mattering that is probably true, the university has put up with YEARS of mismanagement because we had useless people running the programs especially as AD and Chancellor! Now the continuing of the empty seats hasnt told big poppa plump enough of what A LOT of Lady Vol nation thinks of the program he will let it run into the ground like he did the football team when he wouldnt fire his assistant coaches that were absolutely terrible, so i dont have much faith in him admitting a close personal friend like Holly isnt doing enough to keep her job, i mean he was the 8 is enough wins coach! Also Holly has had 6 seasons to right the ship, her first 3 seasons in conference 42-6, her next 3 she has went 29-19.

Also as far as signing for a head coach, you dont know much about recruiting do you? those that make the relationships with the players are usually the assistants, they are able to spend much more time with the players and usually talk to them more often, visit them more often, its why Dooley being the lazy human he was still signed top 25 classes for UT even though he tried to always be home before dinner every night and didnt talk to players that were just 2 hours away that grew up as UT fans and were a top 150 player(Vonn Bell). Yet he still signed some really good players because his assistants did their jobs well! Just look at the classes before Reaves got to UT and now after. She was always thought as a hot shot recruiter and she has done a heck of a job at UT. Almost every coach keeps a hot shot recruiter on their staff, might not be much of a coach, but they sure can recruit the heck out of a lady or an example a Tee Martin in football, to think its only the head coach being who a player plays for is at best naive!

Riiight. Head coaches are the deal closers in recruiting. And if a head coach surrounds him or her self with people who are also good in the recruiting, that would be a plus for the coach.

As for the lewd language, it is clear that your word choices reflect who you are as a person. You gotta be you and I completely respect the authenticity of post and more power to you. "Butt licker" is a perfectly fitting phrase for you. Have a great day.

 

[Bigorangefaninga]

Wow - seriously? You’re a pig.

yeah, he brought UT their last NC in football! He also got fat and lazy with coaching and thought he would ride his own coat-tails off into retirement sooner or later and the football program is at where it is because of him also! Without Cut as his crutch he just couldnt do well enough and he refused to change! Platinum Pat Washington and a few others he refused to fire when they were not performing and the team ended up where it was when i was fired because of it! Now we have him as a UT Athletic Director! You can think anything you want of me, i really dont care, I just know I am right and asking him to fire Holly would be the ultimate no deal, we are stuck with her and her non-coaching for another 5 years while Fulmer tries to find another way to take over the football program himself ala Barry Alvarez whenever he possibly can!