UConn back to Big East

#26
#26
1reVOLver said:
So, based on a single data point, are we to assume that history will repeat itself?

Maybe. Maybe not.
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No... their decline will not be over a single point at all. Every school in any sport can recover from losing a great coach or from making a bad hire IF EVERYTHING ELSE HAS REMAINED THE SAME, but it hasn't for UConn. The landscape of the NCAA has changed and conference affiliation has become too important now. The much more significant point working against UConn, is their inability to gain acceptance into a Power 5 conference. If they had been able to join the ACC, they could still have kept their brand intact. Over time, schools will take on the identity of their conference. Once Auriemma retires, it will be a struggle for recruits not to perceive them as a mid-major team, which is essentially, what the majority of the teams in their conference (The Big East now) are.

The more appropriate example to use for UConn, is what has happened to Louisiana Tech since Leon Barmore retired. In the long run, with a diminished brand, any school in a mid-major conference will start to recruit like their mid-major brethren. Also, think UNLV men's basketball after Jerry Tarkanian retired. They had one of the best teams ever in 1990... they couldn't even make the NIT by 1994.
 
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#27
#27
BowlBrother85 said:
No... their decline will not be over a single point at all. Every school in any sport can recover from losing a great coach or from making a bad hire IF EVERYTHING ELSE HAS REMAINED THE SAME, but it hasn't for UConn. The landscape of the NCAA has changed and conference affiliation has become too important now. The much more significant point working against UConn, is their inability to gain acceptance into a Power 5 conference. If they had been able to join the ACC, they could still have kept their brand intact. Over time, schools will take on the identity of their conference. Once Auriemma retires, it will be a struggle for recruits not to perceive them as a mid-major team, which is essentially, what the majority of the teams in their conference (The Big East now) are.

The more appropriate example to use for UConn, is what has happened to Louisiana Tech since Leon Barmore retired. In the long run, with a diminished brand, any school in a mid-major conference will start to recruit like their mid-major brethren. Also, think UNLV men's basketball after Jerry Tarkanian retired. They had one of the best teams ever in 1990... they couldn't even make the NIT by 1994.
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It makes sense for uconn to join the New Big East. They have a football team in name only and had virtually no chance of being invited into a P5 conference. They will probably get a more favorable tv contract split in the NBE then they have now.
You don't have to be in a P5 conference to be relevant in either men's or women's basketball (see Vilanova).
As far as their demise, they will face the same problem every other team faces when an iconic coach retires.
 
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#28
#28
volnationnj said:
It makes sense for uconn to join the New Big East. They have a football team in name only and had virtually no chance of being invited into a P5 conference. They will probably get a more favorable tv contract split in the NBE then they have now.
You don't have to be in a P5 conference to be relevant in either men's or women's basketball (see Vilanova).
As far as their demise, they will face the same problem every other team faces when an iconic coach retires.
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It does make sense... and of course, mid-major teams can still field good teams but their days of cherry picking top 10 recruits will be over when Auriemma retires... and in the women's game, where the pool of elite talent is much smaller than on the men's side, I don't see a mid-major team (which UConn will become) ever winning a championship.
 
#29
#29
savannahfan said:
There is nowhere for them to go. The school is as far from anywhere as Hawaii. Besides, who the hel- wants to go play football, baseball, or most any other "ball" (except maybe basketball) in that far corner of the country. Yea, put them in the big ten, see how many Minnesota fans show up for a game in Conn or visa-versa.
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Where the heck do you think Connecticut is?
 
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#30
#30
BowlBrother85 said:
Within 3 years of Auriemma's retirement, their decline will begin. By year 5 of Auriemma's retirement, they will be fielding an average women's college basketball team... just like what has happened with their men.
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I think you mean like the Tennessee women. That would be a better example. Uconn men never dominated the sport like Tennessee did and now the UConn women.

Average team? Why would that happen if they bring in a very good coach? Like Tennessee, even without the legacy coach in place, great players will still come. Dominating like under Geno? Maybe not. Average team? Not going to happen.
 
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#31
#31
NewDog said:
I think you mean like the Tennessee women. That would be a better example. Uconn men never dominated the sport like Tennessee did and now the UConn women.

Average team? Why would that happen if they bring in a very good coach? Like Tennessee, even without the legacy coach in place, great players will still come. Dominating like under Geno? Maybe not. Average team? Not going to happen.
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No, I mean like the Louisiana Tech women. We disagree... I think the landscape of the NCAA has changed, and conference affiliation is important. Every team, eventually, will take on the identity of their league as a whole and that will reflect in how well they can recruit. The UConn brand will diminish once Auriemma has left. A mid-major program will recruit like one, in due course.
 
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#32
#32
BowlBrother85 said:
No, I mean like the Louisiana Tech women. We disagree... I think the landscape of the NCAA has changed, and conference affiliation is important. Every team, eventually, will take on the identity of their league as a whole and that will reflect in how well they can recruit. The UConn brand will diminish once Auriemma has left. A mid-major program will recruit like one, in due course.
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The big east is not a mid-major conference. Not sure why you think that.

Mid Major Top 25 | Womens Mid Major Top 25 | CollegeInsider.com

Baromore was no Geno and La Tech was NEVER UConn.
 
#33
#33
NewDog said:
I think you mean like the Tennessee women. That would be a better example. Uconn men never dominated the sport like Tennessee did and now the UConn women.

Average team? Why would that happen if they bring in a very good coach? Like Tennessee, even without the legacy coach in place, great players will still come. Dominating like under Geno? Maybe not. Average team? Not going to happen.
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I disagree, I think it will likely happen. Outside of women’s success UConn is not comparable to Tennessee as far outside reasons to attend, quality of campus, facilities, other sporting events, campus lifestyle, quality of conference, etc. I think it will be hard to get great players to come after Geno is done, especially if the next head coach does not have a great start.
 
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#35
#35
mandyleanne said:
I disagree, I think it will likely happen. Outside of women’s success UConn is not comparable to Tennessee as far outside reasons to attend, quality of campus, facilities, other sporting events, campus lifestyle, quality of conference, etc. I think it will be hard to get great players to come after Geno is done, especially if the next head coach does not have a great start.
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I'm not sure why you think there are issues with the quality of campus, facilities (for women's basketball), campus lifestyle. I'm not sure what "etc" is. Ever been to the UConn campus?

I can tell you academics are better at UConn but I noticed you didn't list that.

UConn is No. 22 in public universities and No. 63 in all universities.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/uconn-29013/overall-rankings

Tennessee is No. 52 in public universities and No. 115 in all universities.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/university-of-tennessee-3530/overall-rankings
 
#37
#37
Compared to Tennessee, Ucon facilities and teams SUCK, with cricket and women’s basketball being the exceptions.

UCON football fans have to be feeling devastated.
 
#38
#38
KrazyVolFan said:
We spend a lot of time talking about Conn on here, not sure why? I know it's the off-season but there has definitely got to be something better.
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On the Lady Vols forum of VolNation alone, there are 9 other threads which have been posted to just since yesterday.... this is the only one discussing UConn. Maybe you should post in one of the others? Just a thought.
 
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#40
#40
I do not discount UConn.... their academic standing is strong... and has increased significantly in the past 20 years or so.... other sports are strong... yes football has not gained traction.... but other sports have gained notoriety....

Athletically, credit BC and Syracuse for keeping UConn out of the ACC..... but 15 basketball championships since 1995 is something they can be proud of....
 
#41
#41
NewDog said:
The big east is not a mid-major conference. Not sure why you think that.

Mid Major Top 25 | Womens Mid Major Top 25 | CollegeInsider.com

Baromore was no Geno and La Tech was NEVER UConn.
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I'm not defining "mid-major" just on strength of the conference in basketball ... Let's take a closer look at the 10 current member institutions:

Butler University (private school with an enrollment of 5,095)
Creighton University (private Roman Catholic school with an enrollment of 8,654)
DePaul University (private Roman Catholic school with an enrollment of 23,539)
Georgetown University (private Roman Catholic school with an enrollment of 17,849)
Marquette University (private Catholic school with an enrollment of 11,294)
Providence College (private Roman Catholic school with an enrollment of 4,735)
St. John's University (private Roman Catholic school with an enrollment of 20,448)
Seton Hall University (private Roman Catholic school with an enrollment of 10,300)
Villanova University (private Catholic school with an enrollment of 10,983)
Xavier University (private Catholic school of with an enrollment of 6,798)

Look, I'm not saying that teams from a mid-major league can't be very good. Gonzaga is from a mid-major league and they are a top program on the men's side. I'm also well aware of the fact that Villanova has won two championships recently on the men's side and Butler made two straight championship games under Brad Stevens... but for the most part, the Big East is comprised of small, private schools. I call that being a "mid-major conference". I also think, as stated before, that the landscape of the NCAA has changed in the Power 5 era and it will be harder for these leagues to draw top recruits... and on the women's side, there is already a small pool of elite players to draw from (unlike on the men's side where you don't necessarily have to sign top 50 talent to put a great team together).

Finally, Barmore was certainly no Geno, but Louisiana Tech was a powerhouse from 1982-1999. They won two National Championships (1982 and 1988) and they lost in the National Championship Game four times (1983, 1987, 1994 and 1998). In total, they made the Final Four 10 times out of those 18 seasons. As far as the 80's and 90's were concerned, they were 2nd only to Tennessee. Where are they now? Exactly. UConn won't fall that far when Geno retires, but it will be close.
 
#42
#42
BowlBrother85 said:
I'm not defining "mid-major" just on strength of the conference in basketball ... Let's take a closer look at the 10 current member institutions:

Butler University (private school with an enrollment of 5,095)
Creighton University (private Roman Catholic school with an enrollment of 8,654)
DePaul University (private Roman Catholic school with an enrollment of 23,539)
Georgetown University (private Roman Catholic school with an enrollment of 17,849)
Marquette University (private Catholic school with an enrollment of 11,294)
Providence College (private Roman Catholic school with an enrollment of 4,735)
St. John's University (private Roman Catholic school with an enrollment of 20,448)
Seton Hall University (private Roman Catholic school with an enrollment of 10,300)
Villanova University (private Catholic school with an enrollment of 10,983)
Xavier University (private Catholic school of with an enrollment of 6,798)

Look, I'm not saying that teams from a mid-major league can't be very good. Gonzaga is from a mid-major league and they are a top program on the men's side. I'm also well aware of the fact that Villanova has won two championships recently on the men's side and Butler made two straight championship games under Brad Stevens... but for the most part, the Big East is comprised of small, private schools. I call that being a "mid-major conference". I also think, as stated before, that the landscape of the NCAA has changed in the Power 5 era and it will be harder for these leagues to draw top recruits... and on the women's side, there is already a small pool of elite players to draw from (unlike on the men's side where you don't necessarily have to sign top 50 talent to put a great team together).

Finally, Barmore was certainly no Geno, but Louisiana Tech was a powerhouse from 1982-1999. They won two National Championships (1982 and 1988) and they lost in the National Championship Game four times (1983, 1987, 1994 and 1998). In total, they made the Final Four 10 times out of those 18 seasons. As far as the 80's and 90's were concerned, they were 2nd only to Tennessee. Where are they now? Exactly. UConn won't fall that far when Geno retires, but it will be close.
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No matter how many times you say it or how you define it, Mid-major has a specified c definition and how you are defining it is wrong.

Mid-major - Wikipedia

"Mid-major is a term used in American NCAA Division I college sports, especially men's basketball, to refer to athletic conferences that are not among the so-called "Power Five conferences" (the ACC, Big 10, Big 12, Pac-12, and SEC, in the Big East, or in the American Athletic Conference). These conferences are sometimes referred to as "high majors" by comparison. The term "mid-major" was coined in 1977 by Jack Kvancz, head coach of Catholic University's men's basketball team."

UConn wasn't a mid-major team in a mid-major conference ever.
 
#43
#43
NewDog said:
No matter how many times you say it or how you define it, Mid-major has a specified c definition and how you are defining it is wrong.

Mid-major - Wikipedia

"Mid-major is a term used in American NCAA Division I college sports, especially men's basketball, to refer to athletic conferences that are not among the so-called "Power Five conferences" (the ACC, Big 10, Big 12, Pac-12, and SEC, in the Big East, or in the American Athletic Conference). These conferences are sometimes referred to as "high majors" by comparison. The term "mid-major" was coined in 1977 by Jack Kvancz, head coach of Catholic University's men's basketball team."

UConn wasn't a mid-major team in a mid-major conference ever.
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All that proves is that anyone can edit Wikipedia and some sensitive person who likes a school from either the AAC or the Big East felt left out and added them ... The Power 5 doesn't refer to 7 conferences and it certainly doesn't refer to any conference that does not even participate in football! That is ridiculous. The whole point of that designation was in reference to the sport of football since expansion began to 14 and 12 team conferences in 2011! "The Power 5" is 1) The SEC, 2) The ACC, 3) The Big Ten, 4) The Big 12 and 5) The Pac 12 - If it included the AAC or the Big East, it would be the Power 7... but again, that wouldn't make any since because the Big East doesn't even play the sport of football.
 
#44
#44
BowlBrother85 said:
All that proves is that anyone can edit Wikipedia and some sensitive person who likes a school from either the AAC or the Big East felt left out and added them ... The Power 5 doesn't refer to 7 conferences and it certainly doesn't refer to any conference that does not even participate in football! That is ridiculous. The whole point of that designation was in reference to the sport of football since expansion began to 14 and 12 team conferences in 2011! "The Power 5" is 1) The SEC, 2) The ACC, 3) The Big Ten, 4) The Big 12 and 5) The Pac 12
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Yeah, that's it. Some sensitive fan of both the Big East and the AAC put them in there. Lol.

I'm sure there are plenty of fans that agree with you. I would bet most of those are sensitive fans of the Power-5 conferences that look down at the AAC and Big East.

It's all pretty moot at this point. Geno has no plans to go anywhere, and even when he leaves, we don't know who UConn will replace him with. I'm sure they won't pull a Warlck.
 
#45
#45
NewDog said:
I'm not sure why you think there are issues with the quality of campus, facilities (for women's basketball), campus lifestyle. I'm not sure what "etc" is. Ever been to the UConn campus?

I can tell you academics are better at UConn but I noticed you didn't list that.

UConn is No. 22 in public universities and No. 63 in all universities.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/uconn-29013/overall-rankings

Tennessee is No. 52 in public universities and No. 115 in all universities.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/university-of-tennessee-3530/overall-rankings
Click to expand...

Before you categorically declare that UConn "academics" are better than at Tennessee based on the US News rankings, you should look at the methodology that goes in to determining those rankings.

Jim
 
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#46
#46
NewDog said:
Yeah, that's it. Some sensitive fan of both the Big East and the AAC put them in there. Lol.

I'm sure there are plenty of fans that agree with you. I would bet most of those are sensitive fans of the Power-5 conferences that look down at the AAC and Big East.

It's all pretty moot at this point. Geno has no plans to go anywhere, and even when he leaves, we don't know who UConn will replace him with. I'm sure they won't pull a Warlck.
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There is no heir apparent. Geno doesn't have much of a coaching tree to speak of. Chris Daily will likely retire when he does. More than likely, the next UConn women's head basketball coach will be someone unproven (what established head coach, who already has a good job making good money, would want to take on the expectations involved with replacing a legend?) That just doesn't happen. Your "Warlick" could easily be a "Ralph".
 
#48
#48
BowlBrother85 said:
There is no heir apparent. Geno doesn't have much of a coaching tree to speak of. Chris Daily will likely retire when he does. More than likely, the next UConn women's head basketball coach will be someone unproven (what established head coach, who already has a good job making good money, would want to take on the expectations involved with replacing a legend?) That just doesn't happen. Your "Warlick" could easily be a "Ralph".
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My personal pick in the 5-10 years it will take for Geno to retire is Carla Berube. Her success at Tufts has been unparalleled in Div III basketball. She has now moved on to Princeton in the next step in her coaching growth.

Ralph would coach circles around Warlick. What an insult.

Tonya Cardosa at Temple.

Marissa Mosely Boston University

Jen Rizzoti George Washington

Jamelle Elliott formerly at Cincinnati

There are several other assistant coaches in other programs.

Geno's coaching tree is just fine, thank you.
 
#49
#49
NewDog said:
Ok...enlighten me.

Wall Street Journal World University rankings.

UConn 97, Tennessee 414

Wall Street Journal/Times Higher Education College Rankings 2019
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Again, I suggest that you look at the methodology used in calculating the rankings you rely upon. I submit that there is very little that supports the idea that the rankings actually apply to "academic" quality. They address things like funding, retention and graduation rates (35% of the US News ranking). Each of the rankings you list present their methodology on the pages you linked. Look yourself.

I'm not questioning the rankings you present, I'm just questioning your declaration that they represent a ranking of "academic" quality.

Jim
 
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#50
#50
NewDog said:
My personal pick in the 5-10 years it will take for Geno to retire is Carla Berube. Her success at Tufts has been unparalleled in Div III basketball. She has now moved on to Princeton in the next step in her coaching growth.

Ralph would coach circles around Warlick. What an insult.

Tonya Cardosa at Temple.

Marissa Mosely Boston University

Jen Rizzoti George Washington

Jamelle Elliott formerly at Cincinnati

There are several other assistant coaches in other programs.

Geno's coaching tree is just fine, thank you.
Click to expand...
Tonya Cardoza (you misspelled the woman's name, come on now, take this seriously.) Her last two seasons at Temple, she went an impressive:

Temple 2018: 12-19
Temple 2019: 11-18

Marisa Moseley (Again, with the spelling) She has only been at Boston U. for one season and it was a stellar one at that:

Boston U. 2019: 15-14

Jen Rizzotti (Well, at least you're consistently bad with these names. I would hate to think you were just playing favorites.) She finished her long and storied career in Hartford with these two gems:

Hartford 2015: 16-17
Hartford 2016: 11-19

and has thus far followed that up with similar success at GW:

GW 2018: 19-13
GW 2019: 10-20

Jamelle Elliott (You saved the best for last... She must be a personal fave, you actually spelled her name right. LOL!) Her butt was fired after posting these records in her last two seasons at Cincinnati:

Cincinnati 2017: 16-14
Cincinnati 2018: 19-13

Wow, what a brain trust....

Now, as for Ralph "coaching circles around Warlick"? Maybe. Your best hope could be your Division III wiz, Berube. Although, I tend to believe that for right now, she just has the benefit of being an unknown commodity at the highest level of competition in women's basketball ... Div III to Princeton is quite a jump, especially following Banghart ... but good luck to her anyway!
 
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