Uconn gets no postseason ban - Good news for TN and Bruce

#51
#51
Like I said, we'll see. We really don't know. He got suspended from recruiting off campus for a year. We will found out what the NCAA's standard is for lying. The punishments handed down are more than enough to cover for the underlying offenses. It's now a matter of how they view lying in general, because as has been mentioned several times, it's not like he was covering up a pay-for-play scheme. But, I do think the apparent attempt to get the parents to participate in a cover up is a sorry thing to do.
 
#52
#52
I agree that the pay reduction probably won't be considered much by the NCAA. If anything, the school is getting a financial break with that punishment.

I do not see how what UT did can be considered "very lax" though, but I guess we'll see.

It's embarrassing that the commish had to step in and suspend Pearl. That in itself says Slive didn't think it was enough punishment.

Lax in the sense that nothing UT did would hurt the team, on the court.
 
#53
#53
Like I said, we'll see. We really don't know. He got suspended from recruiting off campus for a year. We will found out what the NCAA's standard is for lying. The punishments handed down are more than enough to cover for the underlying offenses. It's now a matter of how they view lying in general, because as has been mentioned several times, it's not like he was covering up a pay-for-play scheme. But, I do think the apparent attempt to get the parents to participate in a cover up is a sorry thing to do.

(I don't know so I am asking) Does a judge or court care if you lie to them about a traffic accident try to persuade people to lie for you anymore than stealing something?
 
#54
#54
It's embarrassing that the commish had to step in and suspend Pearl. That in itself says Slive didn't think it was enough punishment.

Lax in the sense that nothing UT did would hurt the team, on the court.

UT did nothing to hurt this year's team on the court, but the recruiting restrictions will hurt future teams.
 
#55
#55
(I don't know so I am asking) Does a judge or court care if you lie to them about a traffic accident try to persuade people to lie for you anymore than stealing something?

If a court determines one side was lying about the cause of a traffic accident, it would probably just toss that party's argument and find in favor of the other side. And, if the lying party found themselves testifying in court again, the attorney could bring up the fact that they've previously lied in court.

It comes down to what value the NCAA places on a lie, because the underlying offenses have already been dealt with. I think the recruiting ban is more than enough punishment for inviting committed high school juniors to a family BBQ. Anything else the NCAA tacks on will be a punishment for lying to them about anything, along with the poor move of persuading the parents.
 
#56
#56
I still think that if a player can get a year ban for lying to the NCAA, a coach will as well.

I think the self imposed penalties will negate a year's suspension. Pearl may get some game suspensions.
 
#57
#57
So Uconn's Jim Calhoun gets hit with "failing to create an atmosphere of compliance" after having 8 (yes eight) MAJOR violations.... and gets no postseason ban.

NCAA committee bans Jim Calhoun of Connecticut Huskies from three Big East games - ESPN

No way Bruce Pearl and TN gets the postseason ban so many of you here have indicated. Minor violations and lying about it does not equal 8 major violations. Even if Bruce gets hit with "failing to create an atmosphere of compliance" there can't be a double standard applied. The Ncaa will have to follow the same punishment lines handed to Uconn. The NCAA knows Uconn and Calhoun lied... have to give Bruce some credit, at least he came clean about it - unlike Calhoun.

Just my opinion.. i'm sure there are many others who differ. :hi:

You must have missed the biggest news -- a two-year show cause order to the former athletic operations director, effectively banning him from working anywhere for two-years. His crime? "Unethical conduct." The factual basis? Providing "false and misleading information" in two interviews with the NCAA. Notably, he was not the Head Coach, not accused of asking and encouraging others to lie, and was not in the news all year long.

This is VERY BAD news for Pearl, and us, not good news.
 
#59
#59
(I don't know so I am asking) Does a judge or court care if you lie to them about a traffic accident try to persuade people to lie for you anymore than stealing something?


Common sense should come into play from time to time. Our judicial system is often wrong.
 
#60
#60
"Two members of last year's basketball staff, Beau Archibald, the director of basketball operations, and assistant coach Patrick Sellers lost their jobs after allegations they provided false and misleading information to NCAA investigators.

The Division I Committee on Infractions levied a two-year show-cause penalty on Archibald."

What about this is a positive for Pearl or the assistants who lied to investigators? If anything it looks worse.
 
#61
#61
If Bruce gets a show-cause penalty, then, the net of all punishments will be that UT gets hit harder than UConn. Their off-campus recruiting penalties are much lighter than what UT already gave iself. They did lose one scholarship per year, so they have 12 instead of 13. But, they still have Calhoun. If UT is forced to fire Bruce, UConn will walk away with less overall punishment than UT, despite the underlying offenses being 8 major violations versus what we agree is, at most, 1 major violation. The guys who lost their jobs at UConn sound like scapegoats, just from that article. It sounds like UConn made them the scapegoats, and the NCAA went along with it. But, I guess if they can't pin it on Calhoun, there's nothing more they can do.
 
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#62
#62
"Two members of last year's basketball staff, Beau Archibald, the director of basketball operations, and assistant coach Patrick Sellers lost their jobs after allegations they provided false and misleading information to NCAA investigators.

The Division I Committee on Infractions levied a two-year show-cause penalty on Archibald."

What about this is a positive for Pearl or the assistants who lied to investigators? If anything it looks worse.

I agree. I'm just irritated that a BBQ might end up hurting UT more than 8 Majors hurt UConn.
 
#63
#63
I think people need to look at the UCONN situation more clearly. All the evidence appears to indicate that UCONN was very involved in a long term improper effort to recruit a player. Their team manager, who was known to have aspirations to become an NBA scout, was involved in multiple improper contacts with a recruit. The "coaching staff" admits to a combined 2000 phone calls and txt w/ said former team manager during the years in question. The "coaching staff" also provided 30+ tickets for said recruits teachers and others affiliated w/ the recruit. The assistants apparently repeatedly provided false information to the NCAA, and to this day Calhoun still claims he had no knowledge of any of it (the 3000 phone/text messages, the free tickets.) IF Calhoun really didn't have a clue, then he should be checked for dementia. Any head coach who allows a aspiring NBA scout to be that involved in your program and more importantly your recruiting should be held responsible for the consequences.
As far as Slive goes, I think his 8 game suspension of Pearl had a lot less to do with UT self imposed penalties and more to do with the heat he was receiving, at the same time, for the Cam Newton issue.
 
#66
#66
When did Calhoun ever get caught in a conspiracy to lie? That's the huge difference. I don't know how we can draw a legitimate comparison between the two cases.

So you are essentially saying that Calhoun and UConn did not lie about their recruiting violations. And therefore the AA sanctions are baseless.
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#67
#67
Bruce came clean after he was caught red handed. Not the same.

As I recall, Bruce phoned up the investigators within a week of his first contact with them and admitted that he had initially made a false statement or two. So, at that point, no one had yet 'caught' him in a lie. Therefore, he actually did come clean before anyone made any accusation against him. So, how do you figure he was caught?
 
#68
#68
Me too. Still don't understand why he lied about it.

Low moral character?

Lack of intestinal fortitude?

Inability to take responsibility for his own actions?

Ignorance of right and wrong?

Willful dgsregard for the rules?

Deceitful nature?

Pathological liar?

Pick one, some or all.
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#69
#69
When did Calhoun ever get caught in a conspiracy to lie? That's the huge diff rence. I don't know how we can draw a legitimate comparison between the two cases.

Conspiracy, by definition, involves more than one person. Where is there any indication in the UT saga that anyone other than Coach Pearl lied about the Barbecue scenario? I haven't seen any indication that Bruce and his staff conspired to tell falsehoods to anyone. Any lies that were told seem to have come from individual sources, not as the result of any conspiracy.
 
#70
#70
As I recall, Bruce phoned up the investigators within a week of his first contact with them and admitted that he had initially made a false statement or two. So, at that point, no one had yet 'caught' him in a lie. Therefore, he actually did come clean before anyone made any accusation against him. So, how do you figure he was caught?

False.
 
#71
#71
Conspiracy, by definition, involves more than one person. Where is there any indication in the UT saga that anyone other than Coach Pearl lied about the Barbecue scenario? I haven't seen any indication that Bruce and his staff conspired to tell falsehoods to anyone. Any lies that were told seem to have come from individual sources, not as the result of any conspiracy.

The assistant coaches lied the first time and the second time the investigator interviewed them. BP came clean in the second meeting. BP tried to get the recruits and their families to lie as well.
 
#72
#72
I just don't get how Bruce got 8 games from the SEC, yet Calhoun, with his eight (8) major violations, only got three games next season.
 
#73
#73
The assistant coaches lied the first time and the second time the investigator interviewed them.

BP came clean in the second meeting. BP tried to get the recruits and their families to lie as well.[/QUOTE]


If the assistants told lies on their own, that still doesn’t fit the definition of conspiracy. There’s no indication that Bruce compelled them to lie and that they agreed. So, that’s just a bunch of individual lies told by individual liars.

If it's true that Bruce tried to compel the players and their families to lie, then apparently none of the other parties agreed to go along with the him. So, that may be coercion, but it’s not conspiracy.

So, if there's going to be an accusation of conspiracy, there first has to be evidence of conspiracy or the charge will fall through.
 
#74
#74
BUUUUTTTTT we didn't fire the head coach that did it...

Neither did UCONN. Pearl suspended for 8 games, UCONN 3, even though it was done by SEC. I'd expect some type of NCAA reprimand but no more suspended games taking in consideration what's already happened to Pearl. Anything more would be an injustice to TN, SEC, and Pearl.
 
#75
#75
I still think that if a player can get a year ban for lying to the NCAA, a coach will as well.

Last night, ESPN listed the punishments based on precedent, as did the GVX article. Based on NCAA precedent, the worst thing to come is more game suspensions for Pearl (non-SEC) and scholarships to be taken away. Unless there is something we don't know about that is above "major violation," I think Pearl will be relatively OK with what is to come in June.
 

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