UFC Thread

#11,376
#11,376
n_huffhines said:
I know it will sell. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the quality of the fighters at this juncture is undercard worthy. It's 2 guys trying to get their careers back on track
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Chandler come to the UFC and fought the top guys in every fight and was close to winning everyone of those fights. His career will be "off track" when he says. McGregor is a victim of so much money. He was a much better fighter and more suited for 145 weight class. He dominated Porier at 45 because Dustin was cutting way to much weight.
 
#11,377
#11,377
vols40 said:
Chandler come to the UFC and fought the top guys in every fight and was close to winning everyone of those fights. His career will be "off track" when he says. McGregor is a victim of so much money. He was a much better fighter and more suited for 145 weight class. He dominated Porier at 45 because Dustin was cutting way to much weight.
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The only fights McGregor and MC won in their last 4 were against guys that had become punching bags. He may have been close in thoss 3 losses, but got finished in 2 of them. One of them was a 5' fight.

They are what they are and McGregor is not 145. I never heard of the fighter getting to decide if 1-3 is "off track". If he thinks it isn't, then be isn't the dude we see fighting like a gladiator in losses. It's off track.
 
#11,378
#11,378
n_huffhines said:
The only fights McGregor and MC won in their last 4 were against guys that had become punching bags. He may have been close in thoss 3 losses, but got finished in 2 of them. One of them was a 5' fight.

They are what they are and McGregor is not 145. I never heard of the fighter getting to decide if 1-3 is "off track". If he thinks it isn't, then be isn't the dude we see fighting like a gladiator in losses. It's off track.
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He lost to the top two guys in the division in unbelievable wars and had a great chance in both. And was so close to finishing Charles. And the promotion agrees with me by giving him the biggest fight of his life which he will most likely win. I agree Conors whatever you think of him is probably right but do not understand the hate towards possibly one of the best cage fighters anyone would ever want to watch. Give me that any day over the leg humpers/line jumpers Khabib and Islam.
 
#11,379
#11,379
vols40 said:
He lost to the top two guys in the division in unbelievable wars and had a great chance in both. And was so close to finishing Charles. And the promotion agrees with me by giving him the biggest fight of his life which he will most likely win. I agree Conors whatever you think of him is probably right but do not understand the hate towards possibly one of the best cage fighters anyone would ever want to watch. Give me that any day over the leg humpers/line jumpers Khabib and Islam.
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What on earth are you talking about? I'm just talking matters of fact when I bring up his record. I enjoy Chandler. Like I said from the beginning, I want to see it. But these are undercard-quality fighters at this point, and that's an unemotional take that has nothing to do with how I feel about the fighters.

He was close against what were the top guys...guess what, the division wasn't that strong at the top. It's deep with very good fighters, but Oliveira, Gaetje, and Poirier are not all-time great guys. 1 belt between them while no elite fighter was in the way sounds about right. But it looks like somebody on a higher tier now holds the belt, so the guys who beat Chandler are tier 2. Chandler is tier 3 in the division. Chandler needs to win this fight and a rematch with one of those 3 (or even Deriush, who is also ranked ahead of him) before I'll put him on tier 2. His only UFC wins are #11 and unranked right now. How can I put him any higher?

This fight is interesting because it has "loser leaves town" vibes. If either guy gets KO'd (which seems like a certainty), title contention is pretty much over for them.
 
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#11,380
#11,380
n_huffhines said:
What on earth are you talking about? I'm just talking matters of fact when I bring up his record. I enjoy Chandler. Like I said from the beginning, I want to see it. But these are undercard-quality fighters at this point, and that's an unemotional take that has nothing to do with how I feel about the fighters.

He was close against what were the top guys...guess what, the division wasn't that strong at the top. It's deep with very good fighters, but Oliveira, Gaetje, and Poirier are not all-time great guys. 1 belt between them while no elite fighter was in the way sounds about right. But it looks like somebody on a higher tier now holds the belt, so the guys who beat Chandler are tier 2. Chandler is tier 3 in the division. Chandler needs to win this fight and a rematch with one of those 3 (or even Deriush, who is also ranked ahead of him) before I'll put him on tier 2. His only UFC wins are #11 and unranked right now. How can I put him any higher?

This fight is interesting because it has "loser leaves town" vibes. If either guy gets KO'd (which seems like a certainty), title contention is pretty much over for them.
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Lmao that's like saying Masvidal is undercard. I'm never putting the leg humpers in the goat talk. Islam ducked Dariush jumping the line for one reason and you know what it was. Khabib beat Al freaking Iaquinta in a title fight. Lol and did not finish him. AbuDabi is why Islam got the title shot when he did.

The UFC is not in the business of being fair. The UFC is in the business of making ppv fights that sell. And two of the best draws are not fighting on the undercard. This is brilliant on the UFC's part. Promote this fight, Conors return, on ESPN for two months. This fight with a little work could sell 2 million. I'm not saying either deserve a title shot. But they are not going on the undercard.
 
#11,381
#11,381
vols40 said:
Lmao that's like saying Masvidal is undercard. I'm never putting the leg humpers in the goat talk. Islam ducked Dariush jumping the line for one reason and you know what it was. Khabib beat Al freaking Iaquinta in a title fight. Lol and did not finish him. AbuDabi is why Islam got the title shot when he did.

The UFC is not in the business of being fair. The UFC is in the business of making ppv fights that sell. And two of the best draws are not fighting on the undercard. This is brilliant on the UFC's part. Promote this fight, Conors return, on ESPN for two months. This fight with a little work could sell 2 million. I'm not saying either deserve a title shot. But they are not going on the undercard.
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Yes, Masvidal is an undercard talent at this point.

So you don't think Islam is that good? He could be more tested, but he absolutely mopped the floor with the champ...the champ who embarrassed Chandler. Neither were close fights.

Not even sure what your point is about Khabib. You don't think he's legit elite?

I don't think we disagree all that much. I think we're talking past each other. Dana would admit they are not headlining quality talent at this point. He would just shrug and say, "But they sell." Which is the point you are making, more or less. You and I arrive at the same point. They are headlining because they are popular...not because they are top fighters.
 
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#11,382
#11,382
n_huffhines said:
Yes, Masvidal is an undercard talent at this point.

So you don't think Islam is that good? He could be more tested, but he absolutely mopped the floor with the champ...the champ who embarrassed Chandler. Neither were close fights.

Not even sure what your point is about Khabib. You don't think he's legit elite?

I don't think we disagree all that much. I think we're talking past each other. Dana would admit they are not headlining quality talent at this point. He would just shrug and say, "But they sell." Which is the point you are making, more or less. You and I arrive at the same point. They are headlining because they are popular...not because they are top fighters.
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🍻
 
#11,386
#11,386
Notorious B.E.N said:
I didn't think he'd be able to keep it off the ground as well as he did, I did think he'd win if it was mostly standing up. Great fight, would love to see it again.
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Yes. At the end of the fight he was dominating Islam. I don't think there would be any hard feelings if the judges gave it to Volk. Wtf was with the 49-46 score? Islam looked defeated after that fight. Volk is a joy to watch.
 
#11,388
#11,388
vols40 said:
Yes. At the end of the fight he was dominating Islam. I don't think there would be any hard feelings if the judges gave it to Volk. Wtf was with the 49-46 score? Islam looked defeated after that fight. Volk is a joy to watch.
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That 49-46 was just dumb. No fu***** way. I actually felt volk got 3 rounds.
 
#11,390
#11,390
615vols said:
That 49-46 was just dumb. No fu***** way. I actually felt volk got 3 rounds.
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I agree. I probably have a different take in that although Islam had the body lock in round 4 (I think) volk was still punching his face and head that entire time. I would have scored 2, 4, and 5 for Volk. I hate the 10 point must scoring and hope for two things for the long term health of the sport.
1) Score the entire fight and announce (Vols 40) scored the fight for Volk.
2) True weight classes that includes day of weigh ins. No more weight classes that give us fights like last night when it was obvious Islam clearly outweighed Volk. This is also better than fighters completely dehydrating themselves 30 hours before the fight.
 
#11,391
#11,391
vols40 said:
Yes. At the end of the fight he was dominating Islam. I don't think there would be any hard feelings if the judges gave it to Volk. Wtf was with the 49-46 score? Islam looked defeated after that fight. Volk is a joy to watch.
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When you were a kid and you or your friend got in a scrap, it always felt like if it got broken up, the winner was the guy who had the last upper hand, pretty much regardless of what happened before that. I think it's in our nature to view it that way, but that's not how professional point fighting works. Especially since the fighters are strategically fighting to empty the tank in 5 rounds, not 6. Can't fault him for being tired at the end. That's how it's supposed to be if you maxed your effort.

I wish there were a better way to balance damage against control.
 
#11,392
#11,392
Volk should retain p4p best ranking after that performance going up in weight. Why should Islam surpass him with a fight that close against the smaller guy? I question Islam as #2 anyway?
 
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#11,393
#11,393
n_huffhines said:
When you were a kid and you or your friend got in a scrap, it always felt like if it got broken up, the winner was the guy who had the last upper hand, pretty much regardless of what happened before that. I think it's in our nature to view it that way, but that's not how professional point fighting works. Especially since the fighters are strategically fighting to empty the tank in 5 rounds, not 6. Can't fault him for being tired at the end. That's how it's supposed to be if you maxed your effort.

I wish there were a better way to balance damage against control.
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You are exactly right. Let me say that I can see how someone (point scoring) could have given the fight to either guy. Don't have a problem with Islam being declared the winner. I am saying that I much prefer the pride scoring system. This scoring system always has a thought in their minds that I have to keep working. My scoring no matter what the system is, scores a round/fight to a fighter who keeps working by punching someone in the head despite the other fighter having him in a body lock for close to 4 minutes.

Lastly it will make so many more fights better if there was a true weight class. Weighing in the day of the fight (12 hours) before the fights has to be an option and stop letting these guys weigh 20 pounds more than their opponents at fight time.
 
#11,394
#11,394
n_huffhines said:
Volk should retain p4p best ranking after that performance going up in weight. Why should Islam surpass him with a fight that close against the smaller guy? WHT was Islam #2 anyway?
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Islam as #2 P4P is a complete joke. No disrespect but no way he should have been #2
 
#11,397
#11,397
n_huffhines said:
When you were a kid and you or your friend got in a scrap, it always felt like if it got broken up, the winner was the guy who had the last upper hand, pretty much regardless of what happened before that. I think it's in our nature to view it that way, but that's not how professional point fighting works. Especially since the fighters are strategically fighting to empty the tank in 5 rounds, not 6. Can't fault him for being tired at the end. That's how it's supposed to be if you maxed your effort.

I wish there were a better way to balance damage against control.
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One thing that’d help is if they did live scoring after each round. I’m really not sure why it’s not in place already
 
#11,398
#11,398
volnbama_ said:
One thing that’d help is if they did live scoring after each round. I’m really not sure why it’s not in place already
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This would definitely be better than what we have now. It would let the fighters know after each round what the judges thought. I am a huge fan of the old Pride scoring system. Watch the entire fight and then tell us who won.
 
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