Unelected

#26
#26
Lexvol said:
The most underreported and ridiculous element to this entire ordeal is the real number of uninsured. It has gone from 30-50 million to under 15 million (or less than half of what was originally given as justification for the bill). This is not a bill that was ever intended to help the poorest of the poor. They already have coverage. This was about moving the country to a single payor system.
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Yep and in the end the government will control every aspect of it.
 
#27
#27
utvolpj said:
so the # to cover is cut in half and the price doubled? Not even sure what to say anymore
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Not to mention the fact that the price will likely double if not triple once implemented. Docs aren't going to give up any more of their margin. Especially PCPs. For the record they shouldn't be expected to.
 
#28
#28
utvolpj said:
it's only activism when they go against your wishes

times
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I don't suppose you could possibly understand that this is exactly what he was saying ? That everyone on the losing side cries judicial activism ?

Saw that insipid Fox & Friends show this am and the blonde woman, certainly the dumbest of the bunch, was going on and on about the statement. Her comments, like your own on this point, reflected either intentional dumbing down of the point being made, or a disturbing lack of basic comprehension skills for a modestly educated adult.
 
#29
#29
Lexvol said:
The most underreported and ridiculous element to this entire ordeal is the real number of uninsured. It has gone from 30-50 million to under 15 million (or less than half of what was originally given as justification for the bill). This is not a bill that was ever intended to help the poorest of the poor. They already have coverage. This was about moving the country to a single payor system.
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Single payor is inevitable. It is called Medicare.

The alternative is national bankruptcy.
 
#30
#30
lawgator1 said:
I don't suppose you could possibly understand that this is exactly what he was saying ? That everyone on the losing side cries judicial activism ?

Saw that insipid Fox & Friends show this am and the blonde woman, certainly the dumbest of the bunch, was going on and on about the statement. Her comments, like your own on this point, reflected either intentional dumbing down of the point being made, or a disturbing lack of basic comprehension skills for a modestly educated adult.
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I don't know what is worse...the president bellyaching about a piece of legislation that was rushed through against the will of the public (see the 2010 elections) or the out and out lobbying to apply pressure by politicizing the highest court in the land.
 
#31
#31
lawgator1 said:
Single payor is inevitable. It is called Medicare.

The alternative is national bankruptcy.
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Those are not the only alternatives. I would be all for more competition through the easing of state and federal laws (allowing more carriers in more places) and for subsidizing regional non profit carriers.
 
#32
#32
lawgator1 said:
I don't suppose you could possibly understand that this is exactly what he was saying ? That everyone on the losing side cries judicial activism ?

Saw that insipid Fox & Friends show this am and the blonde woman, certainly the dumbest of the bunch, was going on and on about the statement. Her comments, like your own on this point, reflected either intentional dumbing down of the point being made, or a disturbing lack of basic comprehension skills for a modestly educated adult.
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if this moderately educated adult didn't know any better he might take that as an insult. Of course when held up against the highly educated man in the WH I think my education holds its own quite well. One could also argue the intelligence of someone that watches F&F daily but I won't get into that

Obama is saying he knows the healthcare law is constitutional. He doesn't need the court to tell him if the law is constitutional, he already knows it is. And if the court says otherwise, it would be judicial activism or a lack of judicial restraint, not because the court makes an independent judgment. And that if the judges revert this law, it's an unelected group of people overturning a duly constituted and passed law.

In other word, judiciary branch should just go and die since they are unelected and as long as legislative and executive branch says something is constitutional, it must be.

Many of his comments on this are just outright lies so forgive me if I don't afford him the benefit of the doubt one of his followers would
 
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#34
#34
lawgator1 said:
I don't suppose you could possibly understand that this is exactly what he was saying ? That everyone on the losing side cries judicial activism ?

Saw that insipid Fox & Friends show this am and the blonde woman, certainly the dumbest of the bunch, was going on and on about the statement. Her comments, like your own on this point, reflected either intentional dumbing down of the point being made, or a disturbing lack of basic comprehension skills for a modestly educated adult.
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So, you discount the actual statements of day one and are going with the spin that the administration came up with on day two after thay realized how stupid the original comments were?
 
#36
#36
utvolpj said:
if this moderately educated adult didn't know any better he might take that as an insult. Of course when held up against the highly educated man in the WH I think my education holds its own quite well. One could also argue the intelligence of someone that watches F&F daily but I won't get into that

Obama is saying he knows the healthcare law is constitutional. He doesn't need the court to tell him if the law is constitutional, he already knows it is. And if the court says otherwise, it would be judicial activism or a lack of judicial restraint, not because the court makes an independent judgment. And that if the judges revert this law, it's an unelected group of people overturning a duly constituted and passed law.

In other word, judiciary branch should just go and die since they are unelected and as long as legislative and executive branch says something is constitutional, it must be.

Many of his comments on this are just outright lies so forgive me if I don't afford him the benefit of the doubt one of his followers would
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LG is so much smarter than the Federal Judge that wants an explaination of the original statement. How can VN be SO lucky to have such a great mind on our board?
 
#37
#37
It is amazing how lg is with tm then it comes to govt expansion and wasteful spending and he turns into an ash clown
 
#39
#39
T-TownVol said:
LG is so much smarter than the Federal Judge that wants an explaination of the original statement. How can VN be SO lucky to have such a great mind on our board?
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uFLaw churns out some stupendous legal minds, their brilliance is such that they are unable to troll their own message boards for fear of setting mullets ablaze.
 
#40
#40
lawgator1 said:
I don't suppose you could possibly understand that this is exactly what he was saying ? That everyone on the losing side cries judicial activism ?

Her comments, like your own on this point, reflected either intentional dumbing down of the point being made, or a disturbing lack of basic comprehension skills for a modestly educated adult.
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It is the POTUS that is dumbing things down. His labeling of this a judicial activism doesn't fit the standard definition of that term.

In addition, his statements show (intentionally or not) a glaring misinterpretation of the role of the SCOTUS. He's dumbing it down to score political points when in fact he's calling his own understanding of the system into question.

Introducing notions (as he did yesterday) that if they strike this down people will suffer and (the day before) that the justices need to consider the economic and human elements of the case are simply irrelevant to the role of the SCOTUS in this interest.

I don't agree with the homework assignment (too much theater) but I see the motivation when you have the POTUS (who should know better) making absurd statements about the role and authority of the courts.
 
#41
#41
T-TownVol said:
So, you discount the actual statements of day one and are going with the spin that the administration came up with on day two after thay realized how stupid the original comments were?
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Even day 2 was off. He indicated the burden is on the court to "prove" a law is unconstitutional. I believe Justice Kennedy would have a strong disagreement with that.

I believe his comments yesterday also referred to the "suffering" that would result from an overturn and that it is somehow justification - constitutionality is a secondary consideration - ends justify the means.
 
#42
#42
volinbham said:
Even day 2 was off. He indicated the burden is on the court to "prove" a law is unconstitutional. I believe Justice Kennedy would have a strong disagreement with that.

I believe his comments yesterday also referred to the "suffering" that would result from an overturn and that it is somehow justification - constitutionality is a secondary consideration - ends justify the means.
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I was trying to get LG's comments on this as even day two was wrong as you have now pointed out......way to go B-ham!
 
#43
#43
If our society was more intelligent Obama's approval rating would be around 3% after the comments of the past few days. What a piece of garbage.
 
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#44
#44
allvol123 said:
If our society was more intelligent Obama's approval rating would be around 3% after the comments of the past few days. What a piece of garbage.
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It's like watching a real life version of the movie "They Live" where everybody is brainwashed.

A sitting President just called into question the essence of an entire branch of government!?! People should be going nuts.
 
#45
#45
GAVol said:
It's like watching a real life version of the movie "They Live" where everybody is brainwashed.

A sitting President just called into question the essence of an entire branch of government!?! People should be going nuts.
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I read a Mother Jones article last night about the "homework assignment" given to the DOJ. Not surprisingly it referred to the judge as a right wing nut but gave no indication that any of Obama's comments were questionable in the least.

The ends justify the means - they know what's best for us and the pesky rule of law be damned.
 
#46
#46
GAVol said:
It's like watching a real life version of the movie "They Live" where everybody is brainwashed.

A sitting President just called into question the essence of an entire branch of government!?! People should be going nuts.
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Totally agree with your last paragraph. I honestly am surprised by the lack of attention this has received on VN and mass media. THIS is the type of thing people should get infuriated about. It is quite astonishing.
 
#47
#47
volinbham said:
I read a Mother Jones article last night about the "homework assignment" given to the DOJ. Not surprisingly it referred to the judge as a right wing nut but gave no indication that any of Obama's comments were questionable in the least.

The ends justify the means - they know what's best for us and the pesky rule of law be damned.
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How much of it is that kind of arrogance and how much of it is him just laying the groundwork to insulate himself if he gets an unfavorable ruling? I think about 90% of this is just so he can go out next fall and say he tried but now he needs time to balance the judiciary.
 
#49
#49
GAVol said:
How much of it is that kind of arrogance and how much of it is him just laying the groundwork to insulate himself if he gets an unfavorable ruling? I think about 90% of this is just so he can go out next fall and say he tried but now he needs time to balance the judiciary.
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He is 100% campaigning.
 
#50
#50
GAVol said:
How much of it is that kind of arrogance and how much of it is him just laying the groundwork to insulate himself if he gets an unfavorable ruling? I think about 90% of this is just so he can go out next fall and say he tried but now he needs time to balance the judiciary.
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I agree WRT to Obama. I was referring to his followers in some of the media.

For him it's completely a narrative to shift blame and whip up the base.
 
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