Urban Meyer Is a Dirt Bag!

[BeecherVol]

Not to beat a dead horse but I would be surprised if most of the PSU staff did not know about the molestation or at least heard something about it. Rumors etc.
The whole level of activity and the time period this occurred was off the charts. Kids traveling with the team, sleeping in Jerry's motel room. Come on man how gullible can people be.
People didn't want to believe it, people didn't want to get involved.

And then they hired Franklin, SMH

Its hard not to agree with that. And the idea that you could be connected in a "family type" setting with coaches, managers and other football personnel and not have some knowledge of that is extremely hard to believe.

 

[05_never_again]

Wolken's angle was pretty simple, he was getting info. He lined up with his connection/friend AD Curry and when he did that he made himself a target along with his friend. It has been personal with him ever since and he is "getting his" so to speak.
As for the rest, the national media people (many of which really don't know what happened) they latched on to what they thought more people would interesting in reading about. "Crazy rednecks that don't want Schiano because of Penn St." Of course they're not gonna be asked why he went from Dec 13' to the present without being a HC.

We can agree on that. There was disingenuous-ness on every single side of that argument. Vol Twitter's stated reason for being against the hire I don't think was their actual/primary reason. A huge part of Clay Travis's shtick is being against caving into social media mobs but he helped organize one himself when something happened he didn't like. Wolken was defending Currie because of an apparent former connection/relationship. Other people in the national media, particularly outside the SEC, took the "look at how upset these crazed redneck Tennessee fans are" angle, which is just a lazy, preaching to the choir argument that doesn't even attempt to understand any backstory. Outlets like Deadspin took that angle too, which is interesting because that crowd is also made up predominately of SJWs who are extremely sensitive to even a whiff/suggestion/hearsay that someone might have been involved in a sex crime.

Everybody interpreted what happened in a way that made them look superior or above the fray.

 

[BeecherVol]

We can agree on that. There was disingenuous-ness on every single side of that argument. Vol Twitter's stated reason for being against the hire I don't think was their actual/primary reason. A huge part of Clay Travis's shtick is being against caving into social media mobs but he helped organize one himself when something happened he didn't like. Wolken was defending Currie because of an apparent former connection/relationship. Other people in the national media, particularly outside the SEC, took the "look at how upset these crazed redneck Tennessee fans are" angle, which is just a lazy, preaching to the choir argument that doesn't even attempt to understand any backstory. Outlets like Deadspin took that angle too, which is interesting because that crowd is also made up predominately of SJWs who are extremely sensitive to even a whiff/suggestion/hearsay that someone might have been involved in a sex crime.

Everybody interpreted what happened in a way that made them look superior or above the fray.

Agreed. Everyone had their idea of what should or shouldn't have happened and why it happened the way it did. And I wouldn't disagree that some in the fan realm jumped on the PSU stuff just because they didn't like him as a coach.

I don't mind getting dirty. He didn't have any business being associated with UT without PSU. That unknown fact just made my opinion easier to have.

Kinda reminds me of Meyer's current situation. You take just one thing and its hard to convince me he needs to be held responsible in the most severe way. You put em all together and becomes much easier.

 

[05_never_again]

I don't mind getting dirty. He didn't have any business being associated with UT without PSU. That unknown fact just made my opinion easier to have.

Yes. My opposition to him being hired would be the same with or without the PSU allegation, because the PSU allegation is so indirect.

Honestly though, if he doesn't have the PSU baggage, he's probably the coach. Or perhaps if Pilot wasn't tied up in court at the time, he might be the coach. There still would have been people upset, but because Schiano's name was mentioned in connection to PSU it looks bad nationally if we went ahead and hired him (even though the national media was defending him), and we have people in the admin leave and fans raising hell, citing that he knew about child rape at PSU. If we hired him and he doesn't have PSU baggage, then the opposition to him is purely football-related, and they can overcome those reasons.

 

[butchna]

I think Vol Twitter follows football pretty closely, and in particular the coaching search after Butch pretty closely. They were fired up about getting either Gruden or some other coach much higher up on people's lists. They became enraged when a guy whose name wasn't even showing up on many lists until the last second was hired and it had all the hallmarks of a Haslam power move. However, if you're going to throw a fit, "he ain't good enough for us" or "the Haslams are out of control" doesn't sound all that convincing. Mentioning the Penn St scandal, even though he was extremely tangentially connected to it, makes it sound like you have a really serious argument. I totally agreed with the mob that Schiano was a poor hire for UT, but their claimed reason for doing so I think was disingenuous. If Gruden or some other coach who was widely desired by the fanbase was connected to Penn St in the same way Schiano was, it would be excused and ignored.

The politicians piled on only after they saw the mob form and wanted to get on the right side of it.

And the politicians “piling on” is what got it done (along with businesses). And they followed the civil outrage portion of the protest...not FOOTBALL reasons. They don’t pitch in to the “he was meh at Rutgers” narrative. So without that, the powers that be tune out the squawks. Before the season started, I put Schiano’s name as a candidate out for consideration on this board. I saw the possible strengths recruiting, Urban Meyer influence etc etc. When his association with the Sandusky scandal popped up on here, I immediately wrote him off. Not because I judged him guilty but because I know that the talking heads would never stop with the questions...at least AFTER the hire and with every opportunity. So to absolutely state that the football fans completely disregarded the Sandusky stench is false. More than a few of me’s out there.

 

[05_never_again]

So to absolutely state that the football fans completely disregarded the Sandusky stench is false. More than a few of me’s out there.

If Gruden, or someone the fanbase loved and was excited about was hired and had the identical PSU baggage as Schiano, would there have been a revolt?

Come on. You know almost everyone would have excused it, especially because the PSU connection was so loose.

And you say the talking heads would never stop with the questions...perhaps local media, but not nationally. Hell, most in the national media thought Schiano was a great hire, couldn't figure out why we weren't totally on board, and thought we were idiots for thinking he wasn't good enough.

 

[butchna]

If Gruden, or someone the fanbase loved and was excited about was hired and had the identical PSU baggage as Schiano, would there have been a revolt?

Come on. You know almost everyone would have excused it, especially because the PSU connection was so loose.

And you say the talking heads would never stop with the questions...perhaps local media, but not nationally. Hell, most in the national media thought Schiano was a great hire, couldn't figure out why we weren't totally on board, and thought we were idiots for thinking he wasn't good enough.

And those talking heads would be the FIRST to camp out in their favorite mecca, Knoxville at the first opportune social scandal. One of us didn’t pay attention during the Title IX trial. And you’re deluding yourself if you think the ADMINISTRATION would’ve let the Gruden candidacy get to us if he had any tie-ins to Sandusky...ESPN would’ve already turned him loose and he’d have been a national disgrace.

 

[BeecherVol]

And those talking heads would be the FIRST to camp out in their favorite mecca, Knoxville at the first opportune social scandal. One of us didn’t pay attention during the Title IX trial. And you’re deluding yourself if you think the ADMINISTRATION would’ve let the Gruden candidacy get to us if he had any tie-ins to Sandusky...ESPN would’ve already turned him loose and he’d have been a national disgrace.

It's rather ironic that he landed at OSU . And has been there ever since.

 

[Boston Vol]

Not to beat a dead horse but I would be surprised if most of the PSU staff did not know about the molestation or at least heard something about it. Rumors etc.
The whole level of activity and the time period this occurred was off the charts. Kids traveling with the team, sleeping in Jerry's motel room. Come on man how gullible can people be.
People didn't want to believe it, people didn't want to get involved.

And then they hired Franklin, SMH

Of course some of them knew. Some higher ups in the university and community leaders knew about it as well.

 

[Nerwen Aldarion]

As someone living in Pennsylvania with a lot of friends who work at PSU or are on the board, I can say this with some actual authority.

A lot of people who say “I know nothing” actually knew a heck of a lot. This was covered up by more than just Paterno and Spanier. Multiple assistants over 40 years in that program knew.

Was Schiano one of them? We’ll never know for sure. But I’d be more surprised if he didn’t know.

 

[chargervol]

And the politicians “piling on” is what got it done (along with businesses). And they followed the civil outrage portion of the protest...not FOOTBALL reasons. They don’t pitch in to the “he was meh at Rutgers” narrative. So without that, the powers that be tune out the squawks. Before the season started, I put Schiano’s name as a candidate out for consideration on this board. I saw the possible strengths recruiting, Urban Meyer influence etc etc. When his association with the Sandusky scandal popped up on here, I immediately wrote him off. Not because I judged him guilty but because I know that the talking heads would never stop with the questions...at least AFTER the hire and with every opportunity. So to absolutely state that the football fans completely disregarded the Sandusky stench is false. More than a few of me’s out there.

Yep. Never understood the need for people trying to tell everyone else how they felt. I know my own thoughts. Had no clue about Schiano's Rutgers record. But I did know how big of an ass he was in the NFL and that any attachments, true or not, with PS was suicide after the Title IX investigation.

Didn't care at all about his success or lack of, didn't want him regardless.

 

[Boston Vol]

As someone living in Pennsylvania with a lot of friends who work at PSU or are on the board, I can say this with some actual authority.

A lot of people who say “I know nothing” actually knew a heck of a lot. This was covered up by more than just Paterno and Spanier. Multiple assistants over 40 years in that program knew.

Was Schiano one of them? We’ll never know for sure. But I’d be more surprised if he didn’t know.

I posted this last year, but since we’re talking about it again, I thought it a good time to bring it back up.

A lot of people at the university and in the community knew. Most people haven't heard this but Sandusky was actually close to becoming the UVA head coach in December 2000, a year after he "retired" from PSU. He had a handshake agreement with Terry Holland the then UVA athletic director. Sandusky even went as far as to start putting together a coaching staff. This included Jim Caldwell, who had recently been fired at Wake Forest and who coached with Sandusky at Penn St for a decade.

Well long story short, the deal fell apart and UVA ended up hiring Al Groh from the NY Jets. The reason given for the reversal on Sandusky was that the people at UVA were concerned that he was too focused on his charity and wouldn't be able to handle head coaching duties as well. This is patently false. While I was a student at UVA from 2006-2008, I actually worked in the athletic department doing admin work.

After the Sandusky story broke I called a couple of guys who worked in the department at the time of the 2000 coaching search. They said the charity story was just a cover. What really happened was that Terry Holland received phone calls from two people in state college. One higher up in the university and the other a community leader. They both told Holland to steer clear of Sandusky. They didn't go into detail about sexual abuse, but told Holland that he wouldn't want Sandusky representing UVA because there were a lot of "disturbing" stories about Sandusky. So the notion the Joe Paterno didn't know about the sexual abuse claims is completely ludicrous. A lot if people inside the university and the community knew what was going on.

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

If the coach the Twitter mob really wanted had Schiano's identical baggage, there would be no outrage. It would be ignored or excused (e.g., "That is just hearsay!").

If any of the top candidates (in the eyes of the fans anyway) had that kind of baggage it would have been discussed ad nauseum on here and TOS long before it ever got to that point. Part of the deal with Schiano is that his name came completely out of left field, and therefore, he was never really discussed. I'd say the vast majority didn't know anything about his background. But when they heard the name Sandusky the reaction was immediate and fierce. He'll no!

 

[BeardedVol]

Yes. My opposition to him being hired would be the same with or without the PSU allegation, because the PSU allegation is so indirect.

That was my reaction as well. UT cannot go Derek Dooley>>Butch Jones>>Greg Schiano.

Even without the connection to the PSU/Sandusky situation, he had enough baggage from his time in Tampa Bay to keep him off of the short list for head coach at UT.

 

[JFBanicki]

The Schiano reaction had a lot less to do with PSU allegations and a lot more to do with the fan base being sick of having mediocre coaches that have been mediocre at best at their previous stops shoved down our throats so the school could save a few bucks and certain people could maintain control.
There were too many good options out there and our AD went for the mediocre, wouldn’t accomplish crap here hire and then intentionally sat back and then aired for all the top coaches to get hired so he had an excuse to role out his garbage hire.
The fans are sick of cheering for a joke of a program and revolted and people in the university took notice and realized that while it was too late to get the coaches we deserved, we could at least get one that the fans could get behind and wouldn’t implode the universities cash cow, the football program and its massive fan base.

 

[05_never_again]

If any of the top candidates (in the eyes of the fans anyway) had that kind of baggage it would have been discussed ad nauseum on here and TOS long before it ever got to that point. Part of the deal with Schiano is that his name came completely out of left field, and therefore, he was never really discussed. I'd say the vast majority didn't know anything about his background. But when they heard the name Sandusky the reaction was immediate and fierce. He'll no!

I agree with the bolded part. The Twitter reaction would have been fierce even without PSU baggage because he did come out of left field and the fans were desperate for a splash hire. But mentioning his name in connection with Sandusky, however tenuous the connection was, turbocharged the case against him. I don't think Vol Twitter wins that battle without bringing up PSU, and they knew that.

 

[05_never_again]

If any of the top candidates (in the eyes of the fans anyway) had that kind of baggage it would have been discussed ad nauseum on here and TOS long before it ever got to that point. Part of the deal with Schiano is that his name came completely out of left field, and therefore, he was never really discussed. I'd say the vast majority didn't know anything about his background. But when they heard the name Sandusky the reaction was immediate and fierce. He'll no!

Agree it would have been talked about beforehand with a top candidate, but the party line would be "...but it was just hearsay!" It would have been excused and overlooked with a big time candidate. Schiano simply wasn't good enough in the eyes of the fans to overcome the baggage. Gruden or some other candidate people really wanted would have been.

 

[BeecherVol]

If any of the top candidates (in the eyes of the fans anyway) had that kind of baggage it would have been discussed ad nauseum on here and TOS long before it ever got to that point. Part of the deal with Schiano is that his name came completely out of left field, and therefore, he was never really discussed. I'd say the vast majority didn't know anything about his background. But when they heard the name Sandusky the reaction was immediate and fierce. He'll no!

The "left field" idea is no joke. There were a lot (a lot) of people that typically would have at least heard the AD was in talks with him that didn't hear a peep until the 11th hour (like Curry is on the way to go get him). The hurry up and get him to the podium before anyone gets the wiser backfired bigger that $#!+ when the right people got word. The Haslem/Curry/Schiano combo was a perfect mix for the rest of the influence to stand up for once. The way it was done (Haslem/Curry) sneaking around pissed a bunch of people off. The coach (Schiano) made it easy to get everybody in line to stop it.

 

[Roustabout]

Yes, but the real attention grabber in the whole argument against him was the "but he might have known about child rape!" aspect of it. Raising hell on Twitter about Schiano being a bad fit at Tennessee, not a good coach, not a "big enough" hire, a strong arm move by a big booster, etc is a legitimate viewpoint to have but going on Twitter and getting mad about those things isn't enough to motivate the powers that be to actually drop the hire. I think the Twitter mob knew that and decided to fixate on something more sensational when making their argument.

As I keep saying Schiano was only very tangentially connected to the Penn St scandal. If the coach the Twitter mob really wanted had Schiano's identical baggage, there would be no outrage. It would be ignored or excused (e.g., "That is just hearsay!"). But even mentioning his name in connection with it turbocharged the argument and made it sound a lot more serious.

UT fans didnt formulate a strategy. It was organic and happened very fast.
Schianio's baggage goes further than his PSU ties.
It's not up ti UT fans to determine whether Schiano had 1st or 2nd hand knowledge: Schianio's name was definitely in the Sandusky mess. Right or wrong, That's a fact.
Combine that with his issues at Tampa, the apparent back room deal with Curry and Haslam and the overall frustration of the fan base and Bam.

 

[Nerwen Aldarion]

I posted this last year, but since we’re talking about it again, I thought it a good time to bring it back up.

A lot of people at the university and in the community knew. Most people haven't heard this but Sandusky was actually close to becoming the UVA head coach in December 2000, a year after he "retired" from PSU. He had a handshake agreement with Terry Holland the then UVA athletic director. Sandusky even went as far as to start putting together a coaching staff. This included Jim Caldwell, who had recently been fired at Wake Forest and who coached with Sandusky at Penn St for a decade.

Well long story short, the deal fell apart and UVA ended up hiring Al Groh from the NY Jets. The reason given for the reversal on Sandusky was that the people at UVA were concerned that he was too focused on his charity and wouldn't be able to handle head coaching duties as well. This is patently false. While I was a student at UVA from 2006-2008, I actually worked in the athletic department doing admin work.

After the Sandusky story broke I called a couple of guys who worked in the department at the time of the 2000 coaching search. They said the charity story was just a cover. What really happened was that Terry Holland received phone calls from two people in state college. One higher up in the university and the other a community leader. They both told Holland to steer clear of Sandusky. They didn't go into detail about sexual abuse, but told Holland that he wouldn't want Sandusky representing UVA because there were a lot of "disturbing" stories about Sandusky. So the notion the Joe Paterno didn't know about the sexual abuse claims is completely ludicrous. A lot if people inside the university and the community knew what was going on.

I remember you posting that story and it fits exactly with everything I’ve heard.

This was a well kept secret from the public but so many people from Penn State knew. If they had been serious about prosecuting everyone who turned a blind eye to it then PSU would have been shut down

 

[Nerwen Aldarion]

The "left field" idea is no joke. There were a lot (a lot) of people that typically would have at least heard the AD was in talks with him that didn't hear a peep until the 11th hour (like Curry is on the way to go get him). The hurry up and get him to the podium before anyone gets the wiser backfired bigger that $#!+ when the right people got word. The Haslem/Curry/Schiano combo was a perfect mix for the rest of the influence to stand up for once. The way it was done (Haslem/Curry) sneaking around pissed a bunch of people off. The coach (Schiano) made it easy to get everybody in line to stop it.

The only reason it got out before Schiano was in Knoxville was because someone from the AD leaked it. Good man whoever he is

 

[BeecherVol]

The only reason it got out before Schiano was in Knoxville was because someone from the AD leaked it. Good man whoever he is

He is.
Very well thought of by pretty much everybody. Even before that.

 

[05_never_again]

After the Sandusky story broke I called a couple of guys who worked in the department at the time of the 2000 coaching search. They said the charity story was just a cover. What really happened was that Terry Holland received phone calls from two people in state college. One higher up in the university and the other a community leader. They both told Holland to steer clear of Sandusky. They didn't go into detail about sexual abuse, but told Holland that he wouldn't want Sandusky representing UVA because there were a lot of "disturbing" stories about Sandusky.

If that's true, why in the hell didn't PSU force him to "retire" or something like that before he did? PSU kept a suspected child molester on their own staff for years, but when he almost took a job at another school, they called that school and said "hey, don't hire this guy?"

 

[Nerwen Aldarion]

If that's true, why in the hell didn't PSU force him to "retire" or something like that before he did? PSU kept a suspected child molester on their own staff for years, but when he almost took a job at another school, they called that school and said "hey, don't hire this guy?"

Because he helped win football games.

 

[05_never_again]

Because he helped win football games.

Paterno did. Sandusky was just a coordinator. The school did nothing because they were afraid of the PR nightmare if it went public, not because Sandusky was such a great assistant coach who was that important to the program.

The author of that post also used the word retired in quotes, as if Sandusky was forced out by PSU in 1999 and didn't really voluntarily retire. If that's the case, why wait that long to force him out if you suspected or knew he was doing something way before that?