US strike kills two American al Qaeda leaders

#27
#27
tvolsfan said:
He certainly deserves credit for making the difficult decision.

I just don't think it's fair to say he killed Bin Laden. Really just chose the manner in which it was done.
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Where does he state that he killed OBL? In that address, he only takes credit for giving the direction and the making decisions that lead up to the event.
 
#28
#28
lawgator1 said:
Uh huh.
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Yeah that was a dumb idea. So what do you want from me? I never said Bush did no wrong. In fact, he admitted as such:

"In November 2008, Bush indicated that he regretted the use of the banner, stating in a CNN interview, "To some, it said, well, 'Bush thinks the war in Iraq is over,' when I didn't think that. It conveyed the wrong message."[15]
In January 2009, Bush said that "Clearly, putting 'Mission Accomplished' on an aircraft carrier was a mistake".[16]"

Still, the fact that he landed a plane on an aircraft carrier was pretty bad @ss. Not to get in a pissing contest but Obama struggles to throw a baseball.
 

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#29
#29
Ron Paul saying bad to kill an American-born Al-Qaeda terrorist ?

Kudos for sticking to his principles, but this us yet another example if why he can never hope to get the GOP nomination !
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#30
#30
lawgator1 said:
but this us yet another example if why he can never hope to get the GOP nomination !
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Do we really need examples of why Ron Paul getting elected is nothing more than a pipe dream(much like his ideals)?

It's pretty obvious.
 
#31
#31
lawgator1 said:
That is just plain idiotic.

The "libs" got ticked at Bush for attacking a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and no WMDs for all sorts of cockamamie personal and business associate reasons. Don't recall any significant complaints when we got actual terrorists.

This has always been the distinction. The Bush administration characterized all Muslims as terrorists in training, or at least sympathetic to them, and so he went ahead and embroiled us in an 8 year junk war in Iraq, when all along it was Afghanistan and perhaps some other hot spots we aren't privy to.

I think it started to dawn on the Bush people, albeit far too late in the game, that their hubris had cost billions upon billions of dollars, and thousands of American lives, and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi lives.

Obama won office and refocused the effort where it belongs -- on actual terrorists. And he has been very successful so far.

Obama gets a ton of credit for his administration's work on this. Bush is just proven even more to be the absolute bumbling baffoon he was.
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I'll ignore the inaccuracies here and get straight to the point you missed.

The libs he was referring to and I was implying are the ones who complained bitterly about "rights" violations from detention without due process (e.g. Guantanamo, Jose Padilla, etc.) to enhanced interrogation. These were seen as massive civil rights violations.

Here we have a POTUS targeting an American citizen for assassination with 1) no charges leveled, 2) no due process and 3) no options other than death.

That is the point - if detention without suitable due process is a rights violation of people who aren't even U.S. citizens, one would think targeting and killing an American citizen without even formally charging him; let alone offering any sort of due process would also be a rights violation. For some reason, it's bad, bad, bad when the war criminal Bush does it but fine, fine, fine with the Nobel Peace Prize winning Obama does it.

For the record, I don't have a problem with it and I'm glad the POTUS authorized it. I also don't have a problem with Guantanamo or the enhanced interrogation we did.
 
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#33
#33
I disagree with the ACLU but at least they are being consistent in their position regardless of 1600 P. Ave resident.
 
#35
#35
Ron Paul is right.

Obama issued a Bill of Attainder through executive order and a Bill of Attainder is expressly forbidden in the Constitution.
 
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#38
#38
RespectTradition said:
Ours. And protecting our freedoms are more important than a couple of scumbags. They are not worth compromising who we are.
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The game has changed a little since the Constitution, and changes often. Adapting in order to defend the Country's freedom is a necessity, or freedom slowly goes away.
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#39
#39
pl3 said:
The game has changed a little since the Constitution, and changes often. Adapting in order to defend the Country's freedom is a necessity, or freedom slowly goes away.
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Not trying to pick a fight, and I dont completely disagree with what POTUS has done here, but when is the line drawn? Who draws it? The freedoms we have can be taken away from the slow yet steady undermining of the Constitution (without proper revision). Maybe we do need to amend it so that its completely legal, and abides by the constitution but right now I dont think that is where we are. That being said I am glad to have these people dead. We need to move on and realize that there probably will never be an end to this "war". The hatred is so deep. The only thing we can do is continue to take the fight to them (albeit legally) and hope to keep OUR futures secure.
 
#40
#40
pl3 said:
The game has changed a little since the Constitution, and changes often. Adapting in order to defend the Country's freedom is a necessity, or freedom slowly goes away.
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Did you just say that we have to lose freedom to prevent the loss of freedom?
 
#41
#41
RespectTradition said:
Did you just say that we have to lose freedom to prevent the loss of freedom?
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If people live in fear of safety, what difference does freedom make? Drastic times bring drastic measures and these are the most drastic of times.
People have to be taken out. If enemies can have the freedom to plot against us, then we should have the freedom to take them out.
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#43
#43
pl3 said:
If people live in fear of safety, what difference does freedom make? Drastic times bring drastic measures and these are the most drastic of times.
People have to be taken out. If enemies can have the freedom to plot against us, then we should have the freedom to take them out.
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People who live in fear of safety let these people win. This is what the jihadist are "martyring" themselves for. They know that we have a sound legal system that can be undermined if they take extraordinary measures to help destabilize the system. They know that many will call for DRASTIC TIMES AND MEASURES, and this is their plan to remove us from the Middle East, the World as a whole, and for the jihadists of the bunch to begin the process of stripping the constitution, while US citizens stand by ignorantly and become subverted.
 
#44
#44
You condone or precipitate terrorism you die. Where is the argument? American or not. Point please.
 
#45
#45
volger said:
You condone or precipitate terrorism you die. Where is the argument? American or not. Point please.
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Just plaing devil's advocate here (literally) but as an American citizens we do have the right to due process. So that is the arguement. Now understanding that I feel complete relief at this news it does bear debate on whether this is how we should be moving forward, without amending the constitution to say that if you are a traitor (Al-Awlaki was) you should can be executed without due process. not really a constitutional law buff but that just seems obvious to me. And I would like to state that just because I am playing the devils advocate here in no means that I am sympathetic to their deaths...just think that we are walking a really thin line here.
 
#46
#46
pl3 said:
The game has changed a little since the Constitution, and changes often. Adapting in order to defend the Country's freedom is a necessity, or freedom slowly goes away.
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I don't have a problem with targeting this guy but you seem to be ignoring the mechanism for changing the Constitution.
 
#47
#47
volinbham said:
I don't have a problem with targeting this guy but you seem to be ignoring the mechanism for changing the Constitution.
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How old is that mechanism? serious question. This isn't my specialty. Just giving my opinion.
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#48
#48
pl3 said:
How old is that mechanism? serious question. This isn't my specialty. Just giving my opinion.
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Its called an amendment and the last one took place in in 1992. Really it just needs to be amended so we dont have any POTUS out there with free reign on American citizens. Would just like to see some guidelines on the issue thats all.
 
#49
#49
pl3 said:
How old is that mechanism? serious question. This isn't my specialty. Just giving my opinion.
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About as old as the rules that say the president must be elected and cant become dictator

about as old as the part that says you have freedom of speech... religion... gun ownership... the right to own property... the right to be tried before sentenced

about as old as the part that says we get to have congress make laws and not live at the whim of a king

about as old as lots of good parts that shouldnt be ignored.
 
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#50
#50
pl3 said:
If people live in fear of safety, what difference does freedom make? Drastic times bring drastic measures and these are the most drastic of times.
People have to be taken out. If enemies can have the freedom to plot against us, then we should have the freedom to take them out.
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Scary. Where exactly do you draw the line.
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