US views of Capitalism v Socialism

#51
#51
droski said:
actually that's "upper middle class"
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Upper Middle Classis still Middle Class.


Middle-class is, income wise, between $25,000-$100,000/year. You said, outright, anyone making that amount was stupid and lazy.
 
#53
#53
rjd970 said:
Hard work is involved at all levels, but I would venture to say that the difference between being rich and super rich has more to do with cathcing breaks and being lucky than it does with anything else. At those levels everybody is working hard and smart.
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bs. Tell that to bill gates or warren buffett. lucky my arse.

TENNFOLD1974 said:
What about the spoiled brats that inherit money...they don't bust their azz.
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agreed. i think that sucks, but the majority of rich EARNERS (notice I said earners not total net worth) made their money themselves.
 
#54
#54
droski said:
even if i concede the upper class is far better off. why does it matter? if you think the rich dont' deserve all this money and what they do is easy, why aren't you <aka the middle class> doing it too?
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Find me one place where I said they don't deserve the money. Find me one place where I said what they are doing is easy.

Besides, easy is relative. Tell a brain surgeon to invest, and tell an investor to do brain surgery. See how well that works out.
 
#55
#55
DC Vol said:
Upper Middle Classis still Middle Class.


Middle-class is, income wise, between $25,000-$100,000/year. You said, outright, anyone making that amount was stupid and lazy.
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by your definition. an individual making $100k a year isn't middle class by any definition. anyone over 30 making less than 50k a year is either stupid or lazy or chose to make that little money. upper middle class isn't middle class. end of story. that is why they list upper middle class and middle class seperately.
 
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#56
#56
rjd - out of curiosity is there any statistic for what % of that 5% were born into that bracket.

I would tend to think it is quite a bit, and that is where I struggle. I think people who make a lot of money deserve to be able to do what they want with it after they have already been taxed initially. However, I also struggle with the people who are rich merely because they were born into a rich family (if they were born into a rich family and they still work hard and build upon there family's money then I don't have a problem)
 
#57
#57
DC Vol said:
Upper Middle Classis still Middle Class.


Middle-class is, income wise, between $25,000-$100,000/year. You said, outright, anyone making that amount was stupid and lazy.
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I'm stupid and lazy then. Who knew?
 
#58
#58
rjd970 said:
Find me one place where I said they don't deserve the money. Find me one place where I said what they are doing is easy.

Besides, easy is relative. Tell a brain surgeon to invest, and tell an investor to do brain surgery. See how well that works out.
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so if they deserve the money why do we care about the income difference?
 
#59
#59
utvolpj said:
so? Someone did. Who should decide where it goes other than the person who earned it
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that's a double standard,it's ok to be lazy and worthless when you get daddy's money,but it's wrong to be lazy and worthless when your poor...that's messed up.
 
#61
#61
TENNFOLD1974 said:
that's a double standard,it's ok to be lazy and worthless when you get daddy's money,but it's wrong to be lazy and worthless when your poor...that's messed up.
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I don't think he is defending the lazy, he is defending the person who earned the money.
 
#62
#62
TENNFOLD1974 said:
What about the spoiled brats that inherit money...they don't bust their azz.
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What garbage. Did you earn the right to be born in the US? Work your azz off for it? There are people all over this world viewing you the same way you view these "spolied brats".
 
#63
#63
TENNFOLD1974 said:
that's a double standard,it's ok to be lazy and worthless when you get daddy's money,but it's wrong to be lazy and worthless when your poor...that's messed up.
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if you or your family has the money to support your worthless, lazy butt then where's the issue? Now if I'm being forced to support your worthless, lazy butt then there's a big issue.
 
#64
#64
droski said:
bs. Tell that to bill gates or warren buffett. lucky my arse.
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Uh huh. There are plenty of hard working, brilliant business men and investors. While still being rich, how come they all aren't as rich?
 
#65
#65
droski said:
by your definition. an individual making $100k a year isn't middle class by any definition. anyone over 30 making less than 50k a year is either stupid or lazy or chose to make that little money.
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Are you talking about the social or economic aspect of "middle class". To be fair, defining the middle-class is incredibly difficult.


Almost every source or reference I've heard concerning the "middle-class" was in that income range. Of course, figuring income is difficult as I'm considered "upper middle-class" by income but if I was back in DC doing the same exact job, I'd be well into the Upper Class but living a lower middle class lifestyle. Since it's so ambiguous, and in the nature of having a biased argument, I'll ask you to expound on your statement more.
 
#67
#67
the % of people who get trust funds at an early age has to be far far less than 1%. most people inherit when their parents die and that generally puts them in middle age by that point.
 
#68
#68
TENNFOLD1974 said:
that's a double standard,it's ok to be lazy and worthless when you get daddy's money,but it's wrong to be lazy and worthless when your poor...that's messed up.
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because being worthless and lazy with daddy's money doesn't involve raising my taxes to subsidize the lifestyle.
 
#69
#69
rjd970 said:
Uh huh. There are plenty of hard working, brilliant business men and investors. While still being rich, how come they all aren't as rich?
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there are plenty of brilliant people who don't have the balls to start their own companies and put their own new ideas to work.

DC Vol said:
Are you talking about the social or economic aspect of "middle class". To be fair, defining the middle-class is incredibly difficult.


Almost every source or reference I've heard concerning the "middle-class" was in that income range. Of course, figuring income is difficult as I'm considered "upper middle-class" by income but if I was back in DC doing the same exact job, I'd be well into the Upper Class but living a lower middle class lifestyle. Since it's so ambiguous, and in the nature of having a biased argument, I'll ask you to expound on your statement more.
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my point exactly. all these people are bitching about the super rich, yet i can be "middle class" in atlanta and live just as good if not better than a guy making $120k a year in los angeles. so why is the guy making $120 an arsehole, but the guy making $50k isn't?
 
#71
#71
rjd970 said:
Uh huh. There are plenty of hard working, brilliant business men and investors. While still being rich, how come they all aren't as rich?
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I would say a part of it is risk threshold. Some of the extremely wealthy risked everything at some point in their lives.
 
#72
#72
TENNFOLD1974 said:
that's a double standard,it's ok to be lazy and worthless when you get daddy's money,but it's wrong to be lazy and worthless when your poor...that's messed up.
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Those who received large sums of money through inheritance are not putting a drain on society by being lazy. If anything they help the economy by spending that money.

Those who are being lazy while receiving funds paid for by taxpayers are a problem. They take but put nothing in.

You may see it as a double standard but someone had to be very smart with their money and work very hard to put their family in that position. The right for them to lead a lazy care free life where they need not work was earned for them by someone else who voluntarily gave their money. So they can afford to be lazy if they so choose.
 
#73
#73
droski said:
there are plenty of brilliant people who don't have the balls to start their own companies and put their own new ideas to work.



my point exactly. all these people are bitching about the super rich, yet i can be "middle class" in atlanta and live just as good if not better than a guy making $120k a year in los angeles. so why is the guy making $120 an arsehole, but the guy making $50k isn't?
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Generally speaking, judging someone's worth by their income is a one-way expressway to Dumbarseville. From any side.
 
#75
#75
DC Vol said:
Generally speaking, judging someone's worth by their income is a one-way expressway to Dumbarseville. From any side.
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Some people chose to make less money than they can. The overwhelming majority, over a lifetime, make as much money as they deserve.
 
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