'25 USC Transfer S Zion Branch

#35
#35
BigOrangeTrain said:
Legit question for you. Since Heupel has been here, how many years would you say our CBs have been good? Please answer truthfully and be objective.
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“Good” is a subjective term. I’ll say the following, honestly and objectively:

1) I think Tennessee has had at least one good CB 3 of the 4 years, but this is the first year they were all good. I’m counting the Nickel position since that’s WM’s responsibility. Taylor and Jackson were good in 2021, but the other spot was weak. In 2022, we weren’t good at any spot. Charles was out of position playing CB, Hadden hadn’t come along yet, and both battled injuries. McDonald was meh at Nickel. In 2023, Hadden developed and was good, but we lost him halfway through the season to injury. McDonald was still meh at NB. GJL made the NFL, but he was closer to average. We got his max ability, which is limited by lack of speed. In 2024, we had a good player at all 3 spots (Gibson, McCoy, and Boo/Harrison). Even McMurray was a solid CB off the bench.

So I’d say it looked like this in terms of how many of those spots were “good”:
21: 2 of 3
22: 0 of 3
23: 1 of 3, until Hadden got hurt.
23: 3 of 3

So the worst year, by far, was 22. The best was this year. It’s funny to me that so many of our fans are complaining about WM when his most recent performance is a good one. It’s like keeping a coach while he builds, then firing him after he’s got it built.

2) Many of our fans have no idea what good coverage looks like or who is responsible for what. They just see completed passes and blame Willie. Our safeties and LBs have been more responsible for pass defense liability than have CBs, especially this year. I question Banks as a Safety Coach much more than I question Willie as a CB Coach.

3) Scheme also plays a role. But if you want to see a real answer to your question, look at the confidence Banks has had in the CBs by looking at how aggressively he deploys them. He has no problem putting Gibson and McCoy in press man. He did that last year before Hadden got hurt, but was hesitant to do so with GJL. He didn’t do it at all in 22. That’s telling. He knew what he had and didn’t have.
 
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#36
#36
NighthawkVol said:
“Good” is a subjective term. I’ll say the following, honestly and objectively:

1) I think Tennessee has had at least one good CB 3 of the 4 years, but this is the first year they were all good. I’m counting the Nickel position since that’s WM’s responsibility. Taylor and Jackson were good in 2021, but the other spot was weak. In 2022, we weren’t good at any spot. Charles was out of position playing CB, Hadden hadn’t come along yet, and both battled injuries. McDonald was meh at Nickel. In 2023, Hadden developed and was good, but we lost him halfway through the season to injury. McDonald was still meh at NB. GJL made the NFL, but he was closer to average. We got his max ability, which is limited by lack of speed. In 2024, we had a good player at all 3 spots (Gibson, McCoy, and Boo/Harrison). Even McMurray was a solid CB off the bench.

So I’d say it looked like this in terms of how many of those spots were “good”:
21: 2 of 3
22: 0 of 3
23: 1 of 3, until Hadden got hurt.
23: 3 of 3

So the worst year, by far, was 22. The best was this year. It’s funny to me that so many of our fans are complaining about WM when his most recent performance is a good one. It’s like keeping a coach while he builds, then firing him after he’s got it built.

2) Many of our fans have no idea what good coverage looks like or who is responsible for what. They just see completed passes and blame Willie. Our safeties and LBs have been more responsible for pass defense liability than have CBs, especially this year. I question Banks as a Safety Coach much more than I question Willie as a CB Coach.

3) Scheme also plays a role. But if you want to see a real answer to your question, look at the confidence Banks has had in the CBs by looking at how aggressively he deploys them. He has no problem putting Gibson and McCoy in press man. He did that last year before Hadden got hurt, but was hesitant to do so with GJL. He didn’t do it at all in 22. That’s telling. He knew what he had and didn’t have.
Click to expand...
In 2021 the CBs were not good.
In 2022 the CBs were not good.
In 2023 the CBs were not good.
In 2024 the CBs were good.

If you would like to argue these points let’s go. The bottom line is most of us on this board have said the secondary has been our main weakness on defense ever since Heupel got here. Finally this past year they looked good. So 1 out of 4 years Martinez group has looked good. He should have been fired before this season. I know you don’t think so but Heupel had chances to upgrade and he didn’t.
 
#37
#37
BigOrangeTrain said:
In 2021 the CBs were not good.
In 2022 the CBs were not good.
In 2023 the CBs were not good.
In 2024 the CBs were good.

If you would like to argue these points let’s go. The bottom line is most of us on this board have said the secondary has been our main weakness on defense ever since Heupel got here. Finally this past year they looked good. So 1 out of 4 years Martinez group has looked good. He should have been fired before this season. I know you don’t think so but Heupel had chances to upgrade and he didn’t.
Click to expand...
You asked me for an honest and objective assessment. I took the time to give you that. You clearly weren't honest in asking me for that, nor are you interested in a nuanced discussion.
 
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#38
#38
NighthawkVol said:
You asked me for an honest and objective assessment. I took the time to give you that. You clearly weren't honest in asking me for that, nor are you interested in a nuanced discussion.
Click to expand...
Sure thing bud. All I did was post facts. That’s all I wanted from you. If you posted a bunch in defense of WM. I get it. You like him and think because of this past years success, his failures are forgiven. I don’t know how you can say a coach is good when he only has one good year out of 4. But you do you.
 
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#39
#39
NighthawkVol said:
“Good” is a subjective term. I’ll say the following, honestly and objectively:

1) I think Tennessee has had at least one good CB 3 of the 4 years, but this is the first year they were all good. I’m counting the Nickel position since that’s WM’s responsibility. Taylor and Jackson were good in 2021, but the other spot was weak. In 2022, we weren’t good at any spot. Charles was out of position playing CB, Hadden hadn’t come along yet, and both battled injuries. McDonald was meh at Nickel. In 2023, Hadden developed and was good, but we lost him halfway through the season to injury. McDonald was still meh at NB. GJL made the NFL, but he was closer to average. We got his max ability, which is limited by lack of speed. In 2024, we had a good player at all 3 spots (Gibson, McCoy, and Boo/Harrison). Even McMurray was a solid CB off the bench.

So I’d say it looked like this in terms of how many of those spots were “good”:
21: 2 of 3
22: 0 of 3
23: 1 of 3, until Hadden got hurt.
23: 3 of 3

So the worst year, by far, was 22. The best was this year. It’s funny to me that so many of our fans are complaining about WM when his most recent performance is a good one. It’s like keeping a coach while he builds, then firing him after he’s got it built.

2) Many of our fans have no idea what good coverage looks like or who is responsible for what. They just see completed passes and blame Willie. Our safeties and LBs have been more responsible for pass defense liability than have CBs, especially this year. I question Banks as a Safety Coach much more than I question Willie as a CB Coach.

3) Scheme also plays a role. But if you want to see a real answer to your question, look at the confidence Banks has had in the CBs by looking at how aggressively he deploys them. He has no problem putting Gibson and McCoy in press man. He did that last year before Hadden got hurt, but was hesitant to do so with GJL. He didn’t do it at all in 22. That’s telling. He knew what he had and didn’t have.
Click to expand...
I have it on good authority that any completed pass is Martinez’s fault. Also any pass completed is bc the CB didn’t get their head around; that’s even been said when a LBer was in coverage. 😂
 
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#40
#40
BigOrangeTrain said:
In 2021 the CBs were not good.
In 2022 the CBs were not good.
In 2023 the CBs were not good.
In 2024 the CBs were good.

If you would like to argue these points let’s go. The bottom line is most of us on this board have said the secondary has been our main weakness on defense ever since Heupel got here. Finally this past year they looked good. So 1 out of 4 years Martinez group has looked good. He should have been fired before this season. I know you don’t think so but Heupel had chances to upgrade and he didn’t.
Click to expand...

Yeah, because this board is just full of college football coaches and experts.

If Heupel had listened to VN, they would be in the hunt for a National Championship every year. 😆
 
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#41
#41
BigOrangeTrain said:
In 2021 the CBs were not good.
In 2022 the CBs were not good.
In 2023 the CBs were not good.
In 2024 the CBs were good.

If you would like to argue these points let’s go. The bottom line is most of us on this board have said the secondary has been our main weakness on defense ever since Heupel got here. Finally this past year they looked good. So 1 out of 4 years Martinez group has looked good. He should have been fired before this season. I know you don’t think so but Heupel had chances to upgrade and he didn’t.
Click to expand...

Interesting they started looking good once nearly the entire defensive backfield left and we replaced them with younger, more athletic, more capable players.
 
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#42
#42
BigOrangeTrain said:
Sure thing bud. All I did was post facts. That’s all I wanted from you. If you posted a bunch in defense of WM. I get it. You like him and think because of this past years success, his failures are forgiven. I don’t know how you can say a coach is good when he only has one good year out of 4. But you do you.
Click to expand...
what facts did you post? you posted 100% opinion with no backup. What facts do you have to back up that 21-23 all our corners were bad? I think its kinda nuts seeing how many secondary players from those teams are actually in the NFL and playing right now. See that's a fact.. there are players from those teams that not only made rosters but are playing in the NFL. So saying they were not good is kinda weird....someone good enough for the NFL is not good enough for UT?
 
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#43
#43
I saw some numbers on Zion the other day and he isn't terribly fast for a DB. He would be the fourth fastest Safety if he were on our current roster. But he hits like a train wreck.
He weighs 210 lbs.
I would float the idea to him if he would be interested in putting on 10-15 pounds of muscle and moving to LB.
Probably not, but I'd still throw it out there.
 
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#44
#44
NighthawkVol said:
You asked me for an honest and objective assessment. I took the time to give you that. You clearly weren't honest in asking me for that, nor are you interested in a nuanced discussion.
Click to expand...
I’m starting to think BOT is jrod, the Kentucky twitter troll. They use a lot of the same lingo and tactics
 
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#47
#47
NighthawkVol said:
“Good” is a subjective term. I’ll say the following, honestly and objectively:

1) I think Tennessee has had at least one good CB 3 of the 4 years, but this is the first year they were all good. I’m counting the Nickel position since that’s WM’s responsibility. Taylor and Jackson were good in 2021, but the other spot was weak. In 2022, we weren’t good at any spot. Charles was out of position playing CB, Hadden hadn’t come along yet, and both battled injuries. McDonald was meh at Nickel. In 2023, Hadden developed and was good, but we lost him halfway through the season to injury. McDonald was still meh at NB. GJL made the NFL, but he was closer to average. We got his max ability, which is limited by lack of speed. In 2024, we had a good player at all 3 spots (Gibson, McCoy, and Boo/Harrison). Even McMurray was a solid CB off the bench.

So I’d say it looked like this in terms of how many of those spots were “good”:
21: 2 of 3
22: 0 of 3
23: 1 of 3, until Hadden got hurt.
23: 3 of 3

So the worst year, by far, was 22. The best was this year. It’s funny to me that so many of our fans are complaining about WM when his most recent performance is a good one. It’s like keeping a coach while he builds, then firing him after he’s got it built.

2) Many of our fans have no idea what good coverage looks like or who is responsible for what. They just see completed passes and blame Willie. Our safeties and LBs have been more responsible for pass defense liability than have CBs, especially this year. I question Banks as a Safety Coach much more than I question Willie as a CB Coach.

3) Scheme also plays a role. But if you want to see a real answer to your question, look at the confidence Banks has had in the CBs by looking at how aggressively he deploys them. He has no problem putting Gibson and McCoy in press man. He did that last year before Hadden got hurt, but was hesitant to do so with GJL. He didn’t do it at all in 22. That’s telling. He knew what he had and didn’t have.
Click to expand...
So I’d say it looked like this in terms of how many of those spots were “good”:

21: 2 of 3 - Alontae (2nd Round Pick) Theo (6th Round Pick)

22: 0 of 3

23: 1 of 3, until Hadden got hurt. Hadden (6th Round Pick)

23: 3 of 3 McCoy (2nd Team All American) Boo (SEC Freshman Team) and by all accounts Gibson had a really good year.

NFL Draft helps prove your point.
 
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#50
#50
Golfprovol said:
Wonder if they plan on bulking someone up to handle what Bru did?
Click to expand...
We have TEs that can be possession receivers. If this year showed us anything, it's that we need speed and guys who can take the top off a defense. Nothing against Bru, but he wasn't anything special. Decent possession receiver who was a solid blocker at the position.
 
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