UT Track and Field

#27
#27
Fire Derrick Dooley no wait we already have. Fire the track and field coach he is a Derrick Dooley clone.
 
#28
#28
Jimmy Hyams ‏@JimmyHyams 7 Jun
As we reported earlier this week and now confirmed, UT's John Frazier leaving to be head men's track coach at UCLA (alma mater) after NCAAs

I missed this somehow. I haven't seen any other stories about it. He was promoted to Associate Head Coach in 2011.
 
#33
#33
vol66 said:
DP, I find that hard to believe.
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Why do you find that hard to believe? almost everyone is aware of the financial condition of our Athletic Dept. I love track and field, but it won't kill us to keep hjim one more yr.
 
#35
#35
VOLINVONORE said:
Why do you find that hard to believe? almost everyone is aware of the financial condition of our Athletic Dept. I love track and field, but it won't kill us to keep hjim one more yr.
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DeerPark12 said:
Well, I don't know what else to tell you, then. It was a financial decision.
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I don't know his salary, his contract, or if the buy out goes down for the school every year...pretty sad state of affairs if true. If they don't have the money to get him out, they don't have the money to invest in track at all.
 
#36
#36
vol66 said:
I don't know his salary, his contract, or if the buy out goes down for the school every year...pretty sad state of affairs if true. If they don't have the money to get him out, they don't have the money to invest in track at all.
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It depends on whether you want to fix it a bandage now or do a complete make over later. We lost our best assistant because of $$. I have supported track and field for 60 years and can not remember when our program was nor competitive. When we fix it, I want it fixed; not just repaired.
 
#37
#37
Obviously, what is required is a complete make over. What's required is a coach that people, not just in the T&F community but especially the administration, will rally behind. I have in the past and still do question why an administration, who knows that the tearing down of Stokely would leave a huge void for the T&F team, has no remedy for the situation. It hurts the athletes because they can't train. It hurts recruiting, thus hurting the coaches. That didn't happen over night, this was planned since early 2012, if not before. It shows a lack of commitment, as well as the inability to plan long term.

I think it is s'posed to cost 5.5 million to bring Stokely down. Rather than factor in T&F, Parking and 2 football fields (approved) will likely be there, maybe some residential hall, too...T&F is left out.

I'm not going to pretend to be some die hard track person, I'm just tired of watching teams get totally decimated like baseball, now track...to the point it requires a total rebuild, when it's painfully obvious the coach in charge doesn't have what it takes to get the job done.
 
#38
#38
vol66 said:
I don't know his salary, his contract, or if the buy out goes down for the school every year...pretty sad state of affairs if true. If they don't have the money to get him out, they don't have the money to invest in track at all.
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Buying out the final year of his contract and the remaining months for his staff would have been about $500k. Literally don't have the $500k to spare. After next year, they owe him nothing.
 
#39
#39
vol66 said:
Obviously, what is required is a complete make over. What's required is a coach that people, not just in the T&F community but especially the administration, will rally behind. I have in the past and still do question why an administration, who knows that the tearing down of Stokely would leave a huge void for the T&F team, has no remedy for the situation. It hurts the athletes because they can't train. It hurts recruiting, thus hurting the coaches. That didn't happen over night, this was planned since early 2012, if not before. It shows a lack of commitment, as well as the inability to plan long term.

I think it is s'posed to cost 5.5 million to bring Stokely down. Rather than factor in T&F, Parking and 2 football fields (approved) will likely be there, maybe some residential hall, too...T&F is left out.
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Well, two points here. First, they had a plan for an indoor facility to replace Stokely. They have designs and an agreement from the University to turn over the land for it (the warehouses next to the soccer/softball complex). The AD has been actively trying to raise money for the project since Bill Webb's final season and no one was interested in giving. Despite multiple events and presentations, there was less than $100k pledged in four years. There were donors willing to contribute to the volleyball facility that was slated to be connected to the indoor track, but no support for the indoor track itself.

As far as the Stokely footprint, the University informed athletics back in 2008 that they intended to reclaim the land and it would not be available for athletics use. Putting the practice fields on part of it is a small compromise that only came into play when Hart came on. The residence hall will replace Gibbs on the other end.
 
#40
#40
DeerPark12 said:
Buying out the final year of his contract and the remaining months for his staff would have been about $500k. Literally don't have the $500k to spare. After next year, they owe him nothing.
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I don't know what is worse. That we just don't have the money or that we paid Todd Raleigh over $ 300,000 to leave and for some reason the track coach makes more than that. I know JJ was a good WT&F coach at one time, but that kind of money for the results he's gotten since the programs were combined is rather disgraceful. He ought to pay you guys back, lol.
 
#41
#41
DeerPark12 said:
Well, two points here. First, they had a plan for an indoor facility to replace Stokely. They have designs and an agreement from the University to turn over the land for it (the warehouses next to the soccer/softball complex). The AD has been actively trying to raise money for the project since Bill Webb's final season and no one was interested in giving. Despite multiple events and presentations, there was less than $100k pledged in four years. There were donors willing to contribute to the volleyball facility that was slated to be connected to the indoor track, but no support for the indoor track itself.

As far as the Stokely footprint, the University informed athletics back in 2008 that they intended to reclaim the land and it would not be available for athletics use. Putting the practice fields on part of it is a small compromise that only came into play when Hart came on. The residence hall will replace Gibbs on the other end.
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It seems like a bit of vicious circle. You can't get the T&F community on board because Webb is gone and JJ is still there, so no donation. You can go out and try to get a coach, but he's/she's going to want an indoor facility. If you don't have the money to pay a buy out, you can't afford either the coach or the facility. If you end up with an unproven coach, folks will be hesitant to support the program.

In other words, we really need to have a good, ahem, prosperous, football season I guess.:p

As always, appreciate what you bring DP.
 
#42
#42
vol66 said:
I don't know what is worse. That we just don't have the money or that we paid Todd Raleigh over $ 300,000 to leave and for some reason the track coach makes more than that. I know JJ was a good WT&F coach at one time, but that kind of money for the results he's gotten since the programs were combined is rather disgraceful. He ought to pay you guys back, lol.
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I think JJ's total package is around $300k, but there were a couple of assistants that had a year left on their contracts, so the total was going to be almost 500.

He won a National Championship here, so when the move was made to combine programs (as nearly every other school in the country had done), he was the only choice. I hate that it didn't work out.

He had some hurdles, like inheriting a program that had basically not been recruited for in over a year. Webb had done no recruiting, knowing Hamilton was going to force him into retirement, and began badmouthing the program and JJ even before his "retirement." Being forced to keep two assistants that weren't really on board didn't help, either.

But, ultimately, he has not worked out and was not able to overcome those obstacles. If they don't make near-miracle progress in the next year, we'll have a different coach for our programs.
 
#43
#43
DeerPark12 said:
I think JJ's total package is around $300k, but there were a couple of assistants that had a year left on their contracts, so the total was going to be almost 500.

He won a National Championship here, so when the move was made to combine programs (as nearly every other school in the country had done), he was the only choice. I hate that it didn't work out.

He had some hurdles, like inheriting a program that had basically not been recruited for in over a year. Webb had done no recruiting, knowing Hamilton was going to force him into retirement, and began badmouthing the program and JJ even before his "retirement." Being forced to keep two assistants that weren't really on board didn't help, either.

But, ultimately, he has not worked out and was not able to overcome those obstacles. If they don't make near-miracle progress in the next year, we'll have a different coach for our programs.
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My only beef with your post is the bolded. It was pretty well known that the women's team and the men's team had a bit of a rivalry going to put it politely. Bluntly, they didn't get along well.

To say that JJ was the only choice is short sided imo. Sure if you're only going to look within the program maybe he's the most obvious choice. My opinion was then and is now, they should have gone outside the program and hired someone who had experience at coaching combined teams. Hind sight is 20-20 and even so, you may disagree.

There was too much water under the bridge, too many splintered factions, for this to have worked out.

Not directed at you DP, the T&F community needs to come together now, figure out how to get an indoor facility underway, even if that means working with the private sector or the city for a multi use facility like the Birmingham CrossPlex. You can't complain if you're not part of the solution.
 
#44
#44
vol66 said:
My only beef with your post is the bolded. It was pretty well known that the women's team and the men's team had a bit of a rivalry going to put it politely. Bluntly, they didn't get along well.

To say that JJ was the only choice is short sided imo. Sure if you're only going to look within the program maybe he's the most obvious choice. My opinion was then and is now, they should have gone outside the program and hired someone who had experience at coaching combined teams. Hind sight is 20-20 and even so, you may disagree.

There was too much water under the bridge, too many splintered factions, for this to have worked out.

Not directed at you DP, the T&F community needs to come together now, figure out how to get an indoor facility underway, even if that means working with the private sector or the city for a multi use facility like the Birmingham CrossPlex. You can't complain if you're not part of the solution.
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That place is sweet! UAB, Bama, AU, Samford, BSC, and even Emory from ATL has used the place along with Conference USA...the state hosts it's Track & field, swimming and diving, and volleyball championships in it....and wrestling will be there in 2014
 
#45
#45
vol66 said:
My only beef with your post is the bolded. It was pretty well known that the women's team and the men's team had a bit of a rivalry going to put it politely. Bluntly, they didn't get along well.

To say that JJ was the only choice is short sided imo. Sure if you're only going to look within the program maybe he's the most obvious choice. My opinion was then and is now, they should have gone outside the program and hired someone who had experience at coaching combined teams. Hind sight is 20-20 and even so, you may disagree.
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Bill Webb actively cultivated that "rivalry" by demeaning the women's program and its coaches, going back three coaches. When JJ started winning, it got worse. BW hated women's sports, and made that very clear. The things he said around the department over the last two years of his tenure were a part of his dismissal, including a very public incident at a track meet where he berated track officials for following a request from JJ.

As far as being the only choice, I understand your point. BUT, if you make a decision to combine track and field programs, I don't think you can justify passing over someone who had two National Championships and six SEC Championships at your school in the years immediately preceding the merger to hire someone else. And you can't ask that national champion coach to go back to being an assistant.
 
#46
#46
DeerPark12 said:
Bill Webb actively cultivated that "rivalry" by demeaning the women's program and its coaches, going back three coaches. When JJ started winning, it got worse. BW hated women's sports, and made that very clear. The things he said around the department over the last two years of his tenure were a part of his dismissal, including a very public incident at a track meet where he berated track officials for following a request from JJ.

As far as being the only choice, I understand your point. BUT, if you make a decision to combine track and field programs, I don't think you can justify passing over someone who had two National Championships and six SEC Championships at your school in the years immediately preceding the merger to hire someone else. And you can't ask that national champion coach to go back to being an assistant.
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Sure you can, especially if the current staff is acting like it's the first day of kindergarten.

I don't recall me ever taking to task JJ, other than to say he isn't getting it done. I haven't promoted Bill Webb at all.

I don't care.

You are telling stories I've heard else where but there are stories from the other side as well. In fact, there are new stories that don't involve Webb or the coaches JJ was "forced to keep". It's kindergarten. It shouldn't be going on. This isn't youth sports, and I know ALL about that.

Maybe Coach Clark will recruit like his job depends on it or maybe he'll take the Dooley lame duck approach, either way, and I may be the only one, I'm looking forward to a fresh start with an experienced head coach of a successful combined program. I doubt that's what I'll get, but I look forward just the same.
 
#47
#47
Vols4life said:
That place is sweet! UAB, Bama, AU, Samford, BSC, and even Emory from ATL has used the place along with Conference USA...the state hosts it's Track & field, swimming and diving, and volleyball championships in it....and wrestling will be there in 2014
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Yes it is. State of the art. World class problem solving imo.
 
#48
#48
SEC Outdoor Championship is over...

Before posting anything negative, I'd like to salute Alexis Panisse, who finished 4th in the women's 800m, Jake Blankenship who finished 2nd in the pole vault and Felicia Brown for her 4th place finish in the 200m...

The Final Men's Team Standings 1. Texas A&M (155.5 pts.), 11. Tennessee (24.5 pts.)

The Final Women's Team Standings 1. Arkansas (123 pts.), 10. Tennessee (28 pts.)

Texas A&M, Arkansas Win SEC Outdoor Championships > SEC > NEWS

There is a rather long summary of individual and team events, Tennessee doesn't get a mention...

Sad state of affairs for these track athletes, they deserve better.
 
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#50
#50
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