@ Vandy: Wed, 2/24/2021, SEC NW, 9pm (TN 70, VU 58)

#26
#26
zjcvols said:
Not many, but we’ve had two bad losses in that span. Either way we haven’t beaten a good team since Kansas even if we haven’t played many (UK is 48 in kenpom and I like using the top 50, so I guess maybe you can use them but doubt they go to the tourney). And the fact we have struggled for 35 minutes against a depleted Vandy team is not a great sign this team has improved since then.
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Don’t disagree with that, just saying we haven’t exactly had many chances to beat any “good teams” since the last one we beat. Maybe we get waxed by the next good team we play, who the heck knows.
 
#27
#27
bleedingTNorange said:
Don’t disagree with that, just saying we haven’t exactly had many chances to beat any “good teams” since the last one we beat. Maybe we get waxed by the next good team we play, who the heck knows.
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Our two potential make up games is South Carolina and Florida right?
 
#30
#30
bleedingTNorange said:
Don’t disagree with that, just saying we haven’t exactly had many chances to beat any “good teams” since the last one we beat. Maybe we get waxed by the next good team we play, who the heck knows.
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We lost to Ole Miss, LSU, and UK. Depending on how someone wants to spin the level of "decent" of those teams, you have to either say we haven't beaten a decent team, or that we've lost to three teams we should have beaten (we were favored in all 3). Perhaps a combination of the two.

Point being, we are playing bad basketball, right now. Tonight should have been a get-right game, and it was a dogfight inside five minutes.

This is a low-IQ basketball team and they getting dumber instead of smarter. I can't believe that I am watching them get worse as the season has worn on. Some of the stuff I saw them attempt tonight was just unbelievable. If I didn't know what time of year this was, I would have watched this game and thought to myself, "Why are we playing Vanderbilt in late November?". The level of chemistry, connectedness, and some of the stupid mistakes still being made by this team is the kind of stuff you'd expect in the first 3 or 4 games of a season, not in game #22. They are just so darn frustrating.
 
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#31
#31
cncchris33 said:
We lost to Ole Miss, LSU, and UK. Depending on how someone wants to spin the level of "decent" of those teams, you have to either say we haven't beaten a decent team, or that we've lost to three teams we should have beaten (we were favored in all 3). Perhaps a combination of the two.

Point being, we are playing bad basketball, right now. Tonight should have been a get-right game, and it was a dogfight inside five minutes.

This is a low-IQ basketball team and they getting dumber instead of smarter. I can't believe that I am watching them get worse as the season has worn on. Some of the stuff I saw them attempt tonight was just unbelievable. If I didn't know what time of year this was, I would have watched this game and thought to myself, "Why are we playing Vanderbilt in late November?". The level of chemistry, connectedness, and some of the stupid mistakes still being made by this team is the kind of stuff you'd expect in the first 3 or 4 games of a season, not in game #22. They are just so darn frustrating.
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It is very frustrating. Vols were fortunate Vandy was missing A few top players
 
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#35
#35
Things that bother me right now, Keon and Jaden don’t complement each other often enough. That late run at Rupp was amazing and what I was expecting a lot more of this year. It’s usually one or the other having a great game but not both. Springer tried to feed Keon at the rim with about a minute left (and it failed), but that was a freshman mistake by Springer. The play should have been to pull out and burn clock instead of attempting a low percentage highlight reel play. Turns out that it didn’t hurt TN, but in that situation versus a good opponent it could have been critical.

Pons is on the perimeter (on offense) too much. Maybe it was what was agreed upon for him to return for his senior year, but we have better options beyond the 3-point line. Admiral wanted to be on the perimeter. But he selflessly went into the paint and TN got much better as a result.

Maybe it’s just frustration, but I’m not liking Keon’s interactions with Barnes when the game isn’t going well. Mark Griffin spoke so much about how coachable he was and that he was such a high character guy. But he gets chippy with Barnes and that’s a bad look. Sets a bad example for his teammates and could wreck chemistry. But since they aren’t mic’d up all we can go on is the body language. Maybe it’s normal in their relationship to bark at each other and it’s a nothing burger.
 
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#39
#39
bleedingTNorange said:
Only thing I’ll say is we had it right at about 20, so obviously there were stretches of some good play...much like our season though it wasn’t consistent.
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Due to a 5 minute scoring drought for Vandy that spanned both halves, the lead swelled to 17 with 16:58 to play and lasted for 47 seconds before Vandy found their shot, again. A little bit of fool's gold, I'm afraid, and it certainly didn't last. For the final 10 minutes of the game, outside of the closing minute when Vandy was fouling, it was a single-digit game.

On the road, if Vandy were at full strength, I wouldn't think too poorly of that outcome, but knowing who they were missing and the importance of those 3 guys to their team, for that game to have even been remotely close is incredibly disappointing, even in victory.
 
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#40
#40
cncchris33 said:
Due to a 5 minute scoring drought for Vandy that spanned both halves, the lead swelled to 17 with 16:58 to play and lasted for 47 seconds before Vandy found their shot, again. A little bit of fool's gold, I'm afraid, and it certainly didn't last. For the final 10 minutes of the game, outside of the closing minute when Vandy was fouling, it was a single-digit game.

On the road, if Vandy were at full strength, I wouldn't think too poorly of that outcome, but knowing who they were missing and the importance of those 3 guys to their team, for that game to have even been remotely close is incredibly disappointing, even in victory.
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Not sure I would phrase it that way, a 36% shooting team was shooting 50% from 3, I don’t think they “found their shot again”, they were uncharacteristically hot.

Basketball is a weird sport, hell we beat Kansas with a team years ago that was a shell of itself, in the grand scheme what did it matter for both teams? Vanderbilt still has some quality players and you could tell that they were playing with total freedom to take whatever shots they wanted and no repercussions, absolutely no pressure, I’m not surprised they hit some shots.

I’m in no way applauding our performance, but I am saying it’s a conference road win against a team who has been playing very well as of late. Maybe others want to take road wins, or any wins for granted, but with this team I will take them however we can get them and hope they can be built off of.
 
#41
#41
bleedingTNorange said:
Or maybe we scouted them prepping for those 3 playing and would have beat them like the first time we played?
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I honestly think they’re easier to defend with Pippen on the floor hogging the ball. Without him they were forced to actually move the ball
 
#42
#42
bleedingTNorange said:
Not sure I would phrase it that way, a 36% shooting team was shooting 50% from 3, I don’t think they “found their shot again”, they were uncharacteristically hot.

Basketball is a weird sport, hell we beat Kansas with a team years ago that was a shell of itself, in the grand scheme what did it matter for both teams? Vanderbilt still has some quality players and you could tell that they were playing with total freedom to take whatever shots they wanted and no repercussions, absolutely no pressure, I’m not surprised they hit some shots.

I’m in no way applauding our performance, but I am saying it’s a conference road win against a team who has been playing very well as of late. Maybe others want to take road wins, or any wins for granted, but with this team I will take them however we can get them and hope they can be built off of.
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That KU game isn't really an apples to apples comparison, but for the sake of argument, I'm sure Kansas fans were bewildered at that loss as the #1 team in the country to a team that lost 4 players to suspension. Still, that Tennessee team was the 16th ranked team in the country and 11-2, overall. Tyler Smith was the only significant loss from that games from a talent perspective. The rest were role players, and it just meant that our remaining players had to play more minutes. We still had Scotty Hopson, Wayne Chism, JP Prince, and Bobby Maze. By comparison, Vanderbilt lost WAAAY more than that Tennessee team did, in terms of both leadership and production. And they are 2-11 in the conference.

I mean, excuse it away all you want. I've defended this bunch, likely more than they deserve. Even at full strength, Vandy is about half as talented as us. When they are missing 47% of their scoring and 58% of their rebounding, for that game to be as close as it was is inexcusable, especially for a team already with rapidly developing questions about effort and mental toughness.

And frankly, it isn't even really so much about the outcome, it is the frustrating manner in which it was achieved. The same stupid mistakes, the same carelessness with the ball, and the same tendencies on offense to pass the ball around the perimeter for 20 seconds and take a low percentage shot late in the shot clock. It just feels like this team isn't learning anything and hasn't gotten any better. Last night seemed to be the culmination of that. They should have destroyed that undermanned Vandy team. There is just no way around it.
 
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#43
#43
SGMVols said:
I honestly think they’re easier to defend with Pippen on the floor hogging the ball. Without him they were forced to actually move the ball
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I had a similar thought, Disu would’ve been a difference but I doubt the other guys shoot like they did with Pippen out there. It’s basketball, we’ve had to play games missing players, we won, take it and move along.
 
#44
#44
Also, not sure I'd call them "uncharacteristically hot", either. That 36% shooting team hit 29% in the first half, and then hit 50% in the second half. They finished at 39% from 3. Sounds to me more like the law of averages caught up with them in the 2nd half and evened out. They certainly made more shots in the 2nd half, but I wouldn't characterize an overall three percentage point deviation from their average as uncharacteristically hot.
 
#45
#45
bleedingTNorange said:
I had a similar thought, Disu would’ve been a difference but I doubt the other guys shoot like they did with Pippen out there. It’s basketball, we’ve had to play games missing players, we won, take it and move along.
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No one is upset that we won. It's all about the game within the game. The mental errors that this team cannot escape or learn from. The lack of killer instinct. The lack of drive. You, yourself, said we shouldn't be applauding their performance. We'll all take the win. This team needs all of them they can get. But this should have been the game where we took a step forward, not one where we merely survive. This should have been a confidence booster. Instead, I'm more down on this team's prospects than I have ever been...following a win, of all things. It is foolish to just say take the win and move on as if to ignore the bigger picture inconsistencies that this bunch of kids continually exhibits. They aren't getting better.
 
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#46
#46
cncchris33 said:
That KU game isn't really an apples to apples comparison, but for the sake of argument, I'm sure Kansas fans were bewildered at that loss as the #1 team in the country to a team that lost 4 players to suspension. Still, that Tennessee team was the 16th ranked team in the country and 11-2, overall. Tyler Smith was the only significant loss from that games from a talent perspective. The rest were role players, and it just meant that our remaining players had to play more minutes. We still had Scotty Hopson, Wayne Chism, JP Prince, and Bobby Maze. By comparison, Vanderbilt lost WAAAY more than that Tennessee team did, in terms of both leadership and production. And they are 2-11 in the conference.

I mean, excuse it away all you want. I've defended this bunch, likely more than they deserve. Even at full strength, Vandy is about half as talented as us. When they are missing 47% of their scoring and 58% of their rebounding, for that game to be as close as it was is inexcusable, especially for a team already with rapidly developing questions about effort and mental toughness.

And frankly, it isn't even really so much about the outcome, it is the frustrating manner in which it was achieved. The same stupid mistakes, the same carelessness with the ball, and the same tendencies on offense to pass the ball around the perimeter for 20 seconds and take a low percentage shot late in the shot clock. It just feels like this team isn't learning anything and hasn't gotten any better. Last night seemed to be the culmination of that. They should have destroyed that undermanned Vandy team. There is just no way around it.
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Vandy hasn’t lost by double digits in over a month and is coming off 2 losses to Bama & UK by 4 points each...again, I am not saying let’s raise a banner for this game but it’s a conference road win against a team that has been really well of late, I don’t think winning by double digits is reason to be calling for Barnes to retire and asking Danny White to move on.

Wasn’t all that long ago we would kill to be winning conference road games...
 
#47
#47
cncchris33 said:
Also, not sure I'd call them "uncharacteristically hot", either. That 36% shooting team hit 29% in the first half, and then hit 50% in the second half. They finished at 39% from 3. Sounds to me more like the law of averages caught up with them in the 2nd half and evened out. They certainly made more shots in the 2nd half, but I wouldn't characterize an overall three percentage point deviation from their average as uncharacteristically hot.
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I’m referring to your line about them finding their shot...they missed some shots and then hit about 60% of the rest of their 3’s in a span which you referred to them “finding their shots”.
 
#48
#48
cncchris33 said:
No one is upset that we won. It's all about the game within the game. The mental errors that this team cannot escape or learn from. The lack of killer instinct. The lack of drive. You, yourself, said we shouldn't be applauding their performance. We'll all take the win. This team needs all of them they can get. But this should have been the game where we took a step forward, not one where we merely survive. This should have been a confidence booster. Instead, I'm more down on this team's prospects than I have ever been...following a win, of all things. It is foolish to just say take the win and move on as if to ignore the bigger picture inconsistencies that this bunch of kids continually exhibits. They aren't getting better.
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I suggest looking around this forum then
 
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#49
#49
bleedingTNorange said:
Vandy hasn’t lost by double digits in over a month and is coming off 2 losses to Bama & UK by 4 points each...again, I am not saying let’s raise a banner for this game but it’s a conference road win against a team that has been really well of late, I don’t think winning by double digits is reason to be calling for Barnes to retire and asking Danny White to move on.

Wasn’t all that long ago we would kill to be winning conference road games...
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I get all that, but that Vandy psuedo-success (not losing by double digits) was with a full and healthy roster. They were still losing and without half their scoring and rebounding, we were still in an undecided outcome with them with under 4 minutes to play.

This is really more about Tennessee's inability to put away an injured, outmanned, inferior opponent than it is about Vandy and what they've done, or not done, rather, over the past month.

I'll take the the win, but I won't excuse the performance because the performance is indicative of the same crap mistakes we've seen for far too long, now. If your team isn't better in March than they were in December, you have a problem.
 
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