@ Vandy: Wed, 2/24/2021, SEC NW, 9pm (TN 70, VU 58)

#51
#51
cncchris33 said:
I get all that, but that Vandy psuedo-success (not losing by double digits) was with a full and healthy roster. They were still losing and without half their scoring and rebounding, we were still in an undecided outcome with them with under 4 minutes to play.

This is really more about Tennessee's inability to put away an injured, outmanned, inferior opponent than it is about Vandy and what they've done, or not done, rather, over the past month.

I'll take the the win, but I won't excuse the performance because the performance is indicative of the same crap mistakes we've seen for far too long, now. If your team isn't better in March than they were in December, you have a problem.
Click to expand...
And it’s not yet March, so I’ll take the win and hope we can find some consistency 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
  • Like
Reactions: JVol1986 and feathersax
#53
#53
bleedingTNorange said:
I’m referring to your line about them finding their shot...they missed some shots and then hit about 60% of the rest of their 3’s in a span which you referred to them “finding their shots”.
Click to expand...
Is that not the very definition of finding your shot? You start out a game shooting poorly, get hot at some point, and finish relatively close to your season average.

We didn't take advantage and slam the door on them when they were cold in the 1st half and opening couple minutes of the 2nd half. That's why I said this should have been a 20 point game at halftime. We didn't, they got hot in the 2nd half, and finished around their average.
 
  • Like
Reactions: berryvol
#55
#55
cncchris33 said:
Is that not the very definition of finding your shot? You start out a game shooting poorly, get hot at some point, and finish relatively close to your season average.

We didn't take advantage and slam the door on them when they were cold in the 1st half and opening couple minutes of the 2nd half. That's why I said this should have been a 20 point game at halftime. We didn't, they got hot in the 2nd half, and finished around their average.
Click to expand...
They were around their average before finishing the game hot...they finished above their average percentage wise and also number of made 3’s
 
#58
#58
cncchris33 said:
Semantics...we are 4 days out and just struggled to beat a Vanderbilt MASH unit. We're running out of both time and hope. I'm with you, though.
Click to expand...
It beats the alternative, and the defense was really good which hadn’t been of late...I’m with you we didn’t put them away and it’s annoying, most of all because if we just took care of the ball we would have, that is correctable, whether we do or not is yet to be seen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cncchris33
#59
#59
bleedingTNorange said:
They were around their average before finishing the game hot...they finished above their average percentage wise and also number of made 3’s
Click to expand...
No they weren't. They were further below their average in the first 24 minutes of the game than they finished above their average for the entire game. For the game, they shot 4.2 percentage points higher than their seasonal average from deep. And despite making 13 3s, that is only 3.6 more than their seasonal average of 9.4 made 3s/gm.

Opening 24 minutes: 5-18 (27.7%)
Closing 16 minutes: 8-15 (53.3%)
Final numbers: 13-33 (39.4%)
Season average: 35.2%

They also average 15.5 made 2s on the season, and only made 8 of them last night. They shot well from deep, but not the overwhelming statistical anomaly you're portraying, and it came at the expense of nearly half their average of made 2-pt baskets.
 
#60
#60
bleedingTNorange said:
It beats the alternative, and the defense was really good which hadn’t been of late...I’m with you we didn’t put them away and it’s annoying, most of all because if we just took care of the ball we would have, that is correctable, whether we do or not is yet to be seen.
Click to expand...
I agree it is correctable, but we are 22 games in, now. What is the likelihood we correct it at this point? We sort of are what we are, I'm afraid. And as you said, it is very uncharacteristic of a Rick Barnes coached team, but I see no signs of correction. If anything, it seems to be worsening.
 
  • Like
Reactions: walkenvol
#61
#61
I was a little concerned with Disu and Pippen out that Vandy was going to be taken for granted. But I also anticipated that they wouldn’t be able to hang with TN into the 2nd half. But I think that when they had something like 52 points, 39 were from 3s. Weird things happen and 40 minutes isn’t really that much of a grind to sustain a great effort.

Before the game Bert warned that something similar had occurred with Florida’s lineup and also that TN’s game plan had to be trashed at the last minute.

I’m glad to take a W and move on to the next one.
 
#62
#62
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I was a little concerned with Disu and Pippen out that Vandy was going to be taken for granted. But I also anticipated that they wouldn’t be able to hang with TN into the 2nd half. But I think that when they had something like 52 points, 39 were from 3s. Weird things happen and 40 minutes isn’t really that much of a grind to sustain a great effort.

Before the game Bert warned that something similar had occurred with Florida’s lineup and also that TN’s game plan had to be trashed at the last minute.

I’m glad to take a W and move on to the next one.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the Florida game is a fair comparison in terms of scout and redirect at the last minute, but the difference is that Florida is still riddled with talent, even without Lewis and Castleton. Vanderbilt isn't. Their starting 5, last night, average a collective 24.5 ppg.
 
#63
#63
cncchris33 said:
No they weren't. They were further below their average in the first 24 minutes of the game than they finished above their average for the entire game. For the game, they shot 4.2 percentage points higher than their seasonal average from deep. And despite making 13 3s, that is only 3.6 more than their seasonal average of 9.4 made 3s/gm.

Opening 24 minutes: 5-18 (27.7%)
Closing 16 minutes: 8-15 (53.3%)
Final numbers: 13-33 (39.4%)
Season average: 35.2%

They also average 15.5 made 2s on the season, and only made 8 of them last night. They shot well from deep, but not the overwhelming statistical anomaly you're portraying, and it came at the expense of nearly half their average of made 2-pt baskets.
Click to expand...
So they shot better than they typically do from 3? As I stated? Thanks.
 
#64
#64
cncchris33 said:
I agree it is correctable, but we are 22 games in, now. What is the likelihood we correct it at this point? We sort of are what we are, I'm afraid. And as you said, it is very uncharacteristic of a Rick Barnes coached team, but I see no signs of correction. If anything, it seems to be worsening.
Click to expand...
Well Johnson and Springer are playing more now than early on, they also have the ball more in their hands than they did early as Barnes is asking them to do more. The hope would be that they get more comfortable and the increased reps will pay off sooner rather than later.
 
#65
#65
cncchris33 said:
I get all that, but that Vandy psuedo-success (not losing by double digits) was with a full and healthy roster. They were still losing and without half their scoring and rebounding, we were still in an undecided outcome with them with under 4 minutes to play.

This is really more about Tennessee's inability to put away an injured, outmanned, inferior opponent than it is about Vandy and what they've done, or not done, rather, over the past month.

I'll take the the win, but I won't excuse the performance because the performance is indicative of the same crap mistakes we've seen for far too long, now. If your team isn't better in March than they were in December, you have a problem.
Click to expand...

Anybody that is actually happy about yesterday’s performance (even with a win) has some serious orange colored glasses on. No excuses, that should never have been a game especially when we got JJJ back.
 
  • Like
Reactions: walkenvol and cncchris33
#66
#66
bleedingTNorange said:
Last night was definitely the most I’ve ever seen
Click to expand...

Probably because a preseason top 15 team is 9-6 in conference, isn’t fixing their season long issues and was only up 4 with 4 minutes to play against a 6-12 team that was down their two best players while we were at full strength. I would say some that is where some of the animosity comes from.
 
  • Like
Reactions: walkenvol
#67
#67
zjcvols said:
Probably because a preseason top 15 team is 9-6 in conference, isn’t fixing their season long issues and was only up 4 with 4 minutes to play against a 6-12 team that was down their two best players while we were at full strength. I would say some that is where some of the animosity comes from.
Click to expand...
Seems like a great reason to want a coaching change...maybe look bigger picture? Or is that just not the Tennessee way? 16-6, win Saturday and we are right back close to #15, we are pushing for 4/5 seed which is where we were projected preseason, but sure, let’s make a coaching change. Lmao
 
#68
#68
bleedingTNorange said:
Seems like a great reason to want a coaching change...maybe look bigger picture? Or is that just not the Tennessee way? 16-6, win Saturday and we are right back close to #15, we are pushing for 4/5 seed which is where we were projected preseason, but sure, let’s make a coaching change. Lmao
Click to expand...

It’s a message board. You’re always gonna get extreme measures either way. Just like you have negatives calling for firing (which I watched the game thread and saw maybe 3-4 people mention a coaching change and one I don’t consider a drive by) you have the other extreme of the spectrum making excuses defending the way we played last night.

But there’s a reason the board has been the most negative this year since Barnes’ tenure. They’re underachieving. They’re playing worse not better. They’re not fun to watch. They don’t look like a team that can do damage in March. With the increased expectations of this season I think even you understand the frustrations of this season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: walkenvol
#69
#69
zjcvols said:
It’s a message board. You’re always gonna get extreme measures either way. Just like you have negatives calling for firing (which I watched the game thread and saw maybe 3-4 people mention a coaching change and one I don’t consider a drive by) you have the other extreme of the spectrum making excuses defending the way we played last night.

But there’s a reason the board has been the most negative this year since Barnes’ tenure. They’re underachieving. They’re playing worse not better. They’re not fun to watch. They don’t look like a team that can do damage in March. With the increased expectations of this season I think even you understand the frustrations of this season.
Click to expand...

I understand the season isn’t over, or even close to it, if we were 12-10 and starting bubble watch threads I would understand these takes much more.

We are 16-6, and have 2 games remaining...

Win our next 2 and we finish 18-6, literally what we were projected iirc

Win our next 2 and we are ranked somewhere inside the Top 15 most likely, right where we started the season

Win our next 2 and we are projected as a 4 seed, right where most had us preseason

No we wouldn’t have won the SEC, but nobody had the winner of the league losing just 2 games either.

So if that is to happen and we win those last 2 games and meet essentially every preseason projection, how is it that this team so severely underachieved? Maybe some fans created some unrealistic expectations or hopes? Maybe in reality this team is who the projections said they were?
 
#70
#70
bleedingTNorange said:
I understand the season isn’t over, or even close to it, if we were 12-10 and starting bubble watch threads I would understand these takes much more.

We are 16-6, and have 2 games remaining...

Win our next 2 and we finish 18-6, literally what we were projected iirc

Win our next 2 and we are ranked somewhere inside the Top 15 most likely, right where we started the season

Win our next 2 and we are projected as a 4 seed, right where most had us preseason

No we wouldn’t have won the SEC, but nobody had the winner of the league losing just 2 games either.

So if that is to happen and we win those last 2 games and meet essentially every preseason projection, how is it that this team so severely underachieved? Maybe some fans created some unrealistic expectations or hopes? Maybe in reality this team is who the projections said they were?
Click to expand...

1) It’s a message board. If we all waited till the end of the season to cast judgements and assertions and thoughts on the team then what’s the point of posting?

2) I’m not sure which projection system you’re using, but even with a 18-6 record that’d be 11-6 in conference with multiple bad losses on the board. Very good win against Colorado but we didn’t play anyone else OOC. And if I’m not mistaken we were expected to finish top 2 in the SEC, finishing 4th would not be great.

3) The underachieving would be the assumption they don’t win the SECT or get out of the first weekend. We haven’t gone there yet. We can discuss that when it happens.

4) Part of that is the regression. If we started slow and were playing our best ball then I think a lot more people would be happy. The problem is we haven’t played consistent basketball in 3+ weeks and we are seeing problems not being fixed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: walkenvol
#71
#71
bleedingTNorange said:
I understand the season isn’t over, or even close to it, if we were 12-10 and starting bubble watch threads I would understand these takes much more.

We are 16-6, and have 2 games remaining...

Win our next 2 and we finish 18-6, literally what we were projected iirc

Win our next 2 and we are ranked somewhere inside the Top 15 most likely, right where we started the season

Win our next 2 and we are projected as a 4 seed, right where most had us preseason

No we wouldn’t have won the SEC, but nobody had the winner of the league losing just 2 games either.

So if that is to happen and we win those last 2 games and meet essentially every preseason projection, how is it that this team so severely underachieved? Maybe some fans created some unrealistic expectations or hopes? Maybe in reality this team is who the projections said they were?
Click to expand...

The problem is not our overall record, it is that we are 6-5 in our last 11 games. Had that been our record the first 11 games that would have been excused/expected due to all that was going on and us relying on quite a few young players and newcomers. The fact that the second half of our season is .500 ball is why people think this is an underachievement. I'm sure you realize that though...

What you said isn't incorrect, but your posting numbers without any sort of context to sunshine pump isn't exactly genuine either.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cncchris33
#72
#72
bleedingTNorange said:
So they shot better than they typically do from 3? As I stated? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Slightly better, which I stated. Not the gross statistical anomaly you tried to paint it as. I never said you were wrong in that they shot it better than normal. I just tried to rein in the misrepresentation of your idea that they were “uncharacteristically hot”. Shooting 4 percentage points above your average isn’t moving the needle.
 
#73
#73
bleedingTNorange said:
I understand the season isn’t over, or even close to it, if we were 12-10 and starting bubble watch threads I would understand these takes much more.

We are 16-6, and have 2 games remaining...

Win our next 2 and we finish 18-6, literally what we were projected iirc

Win our next 2 and we are ranked somewhere inside the Top 15 most likely, right where we started the season

Win our next 2 and we are projected as a 4 seed, right where most had us preseason

No we wouldn’t have won the SEC, but nobody had the winner of the league losing just 2 games either.

So if that is to happen and we win those last 2 games and meet essentially every preseason projection, how is it that this team so severely underachieved? Maybe some fans created some unrealistic expectations or hopes? Maybe in reality this team is who the projections said they were?
Click to expand...
You really are only scanning the surface by touting our record, predictions, projections, etc. I’m not even really upset with our record. Like you said, we are actually on schedule. I’m disappointed with the product, the lack of improvement, the continued mistakes, and the stale offense. Those things aren’t reflected in surface information. I’m disappointed in what I’m watching because we could be so much better and we have shown that, at times. You would just hope to expect more of the best version of ourselves at this point of our schedule, and we are consistently seeing the worst version.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vol49er and zjcvols
#74
#74
Vols8086 said:
The problem is not our overall record, it is that we are 6-5 in our last 11 games. Had that been our record the first 11 games that would have been excused/expected due to all that was going on and us relying on quite a few young players and newcomers. The fact that the second half of our season is .500 ball is why people think this is an underachievement. I'm sure you realize that though...

What you said isn't incorrect, but your posting numbers without any sort of context to sunshine pump isn't exactly genuine either.
Click to expand...

Sunshine pump? BTO? I don’t think so.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cncchris33
#75
#75
zjcvols said:
1) It’s a message board. If we all waited till the end of the season to cast judgements and assertions and thoughts on the team then what’s the point of posting?

2) I’m not sure which projection system you’re using, but even with a 18-6 record that’d be 11-6 in conference with multiple bad losses on the board. Very good win against Colorado but we didn’t play anyone else OOC. And if I’m not mistaken we were expected to finish top 2 in the SEC, finishing 4th would not be great.

3) The underachieving would be the assumption they don’t win the SECT or get out of the first weekend. We haven’t gone there yet. We can discuss that when it happens.

4) Part of that is the regression. If we started slow and were playing our best ball then I think a lot more people would be happy. The problem is we haven’t played consistent basketball in 3+ weeks and we are seeing problems not being fixed.
Click to expand...

1. Sure, but why make definitive claims? Like this team has sucked, or underachieved, or given up, or that a coaching change is needed, or that Barnes should retire etc?

2. Kansas is nobody? Also winning next 2 would put us in contention for 2nd or 3rd.

3. Exactly, why claim something that hasn’t happened? So winning the SECT but Game 1 loss and you’re happy? Interesting.

4. Agree, but we are still finding a way to win enough to be right around what we were projected to be...like others I hope we figure it out right in time.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top