Venezuelan Gang in Tennessee

#201
#201
LouderVol said:
as hog has pointed out, and I pointed out. there are other, better options. going to the NG to do it would be an overstep. There are plenty of federal agents FAR better prepared for that role. use them first.

I also have a very different version of what an emergency is. to me an emergency is a fire with people still in the building. not a few more people walking the street than there "should" be.

now lets say those federal agents go in to clean up places, the local gangs band together and turn into an actual gang war, I would feel much different about the NG getting called in for that specific situation. but across the country as the first tool used is way too much.
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As I read it, "emergency" was one criteria among three.

And as I have read, the issue at hand is already gang wars?
 
#202
#202
Orange_Crush said:
As I read it, "emergency" was one criteria among three.

And as I have read, the issue at hand is already gang wars?
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I mean actual wars where more civilians die than gangers. wars where the gangers actually shut down streets, and not just two or three, instead of just sitting on the corners. wars that have hollywood style shoot outs, not just drive bys.

one requires the police/law enforcement.
the other requires the military, we aren't there yet. and I don't think we are particularly close.
 
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#203
#203
hog88 said:
Both abused the power and should have been impeached for it, the biggest difference today than in the 50's-60's is the people in charge. Would you want a person like Harris deciding what is/isn't an insurrection and deploying the NG because of recent precedent?
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I understand your concern, but we are talking about using it against foreign nationals here, not U.S. citizens.
 
#206
#206
hog88 said:
Doesn’t matter
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Does to me. I have no respect for foreign enemies on our soil. The problem is that there are thousands of these people. Local law enforcement and the feds will take significantly longer to eradicate them because they have to deal with other things as well. Now, if you want to create a temporary group of ex military, agents, and police to do this, then fine.....but we all know that nothing is temporary with the federal government. Might as well use the guard.
 
#210
#210
norrislakevol said:
So were the Philistines and the Assyrians. So were the Japanese during world war II, as well as the Germans.
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Execution by our criminal justice system is nowhere near the same thing as killing someone in battle. If we executed 15 yo Japanese kids for robbery and assault, then this would be a valid comparison.
 
#211
#211
GroverCleveland said:
While "a million ..." seems to be an exaggeration and contrary to my purpose of having a reasonable conversation, I agree with the sentiment. But what happens if the government appears to be unwilling or unable to effectively combat the threat? At what point are good local men justified in taking matters into their own hands? And I am fully aware of how dangerous that road is.

As an example, were the men who instigated the Battle of Athens (1946, McMinn County) justified? The governor of the state had refused help. Federal authorities were ignoring their situation.
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Thanks for this.

Wow!! Did not know this happened. The details of this read like a good movie.

en.m.wikipedia.org

Battle of Athens (1946) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
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#212
#212
marcusluvsvols said:
Thanks for this.

Wow!! Did not know this happened. The details of this read like a good movie.

en.m.wikipedia.org

Battle of Athens (1946) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
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If I recall, they were actually condemned and criticized by a number of papers, including the NY Times. Cannot have the people rising up against corrupt government; this will not do.
 
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#213
#213
n_huffhines said:
Execution by our criminal justice system is nowhere near the same thing as killing someone in battle. If we executed 15 yo Japanese kids for robbery and assault, then this would be a valid comparison.
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I'm not putting them on trial. They don't deserve a trial. They leave the country, or they will be wiped out. Peacefully turn yourself in for deportation or leave on your own, if you do not, then you are dead meat. Like I said earlier in this thread though, that's what I'd do if I were king.
 
#214
#214
norrislakevol said:
Foreign nationals, not U.S. citizens.
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who live amongst US citizens or those legally here.

I am not willing to accept the US military trampling over American's rights, putting American's in harms way doing a job they have no training for, in a theatre they have no jurisdiction over; just to make one subset of individuals FEEL safer.
 
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#215
#215
norrislakevol said:
I'm not putting them on trial. They don't deserve a trial. They leave the country, or they will be wiped out. Peacefully turn yourself in for deportation or leave on your own, if you do not, then you are dead meat. Like I said earlier in this thread though, that's what I'd do if I were king.
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Good thing you're just a crazy barbarian with a keyboard. That power would allow you to send yourself right to hell
 
#216
#216
LouderVol said:
who live amongst US citizens or those legally here.

I am not willing to accept the US military trampling over American's rights, putting American's in harms way doing a job they have no training for, in a theatre they have no jurisdiction over; just to make one subset of individuals FEEL safer.
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They wouldn't be trampling on American citizens rights. For example, they would enter the apartment building that was taken over by the gangsters in Colorado and destroy the gang members. Just as an example here.
 
#218
#218
norrislakevol said:
They wouldn't be trampling on American citizens rights. For example, they would enter the apartment building that was taken over by the gangsters in Colorado and destroy the gang members. Just as an example here.
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the apartment building that Americans or legals could still be living in. apartment building that Americans own. I doubt the NG is going to fund the repairs, probably not insurance either.

what do you think is involved in that "destruction" of the gang members. Going to be no collateral?

what's the appeals process with the NG when they round up a bunch of people and catch some innocents and go to deport them?

war looks a lot different, more violent, than a police raid. We have seen the cops, who are familiar with the area, who are trained to serve warrants, hit the wrong house or go after the wrong person. what we deal with from the cops is already too much. logic states that the NG will only do worse.
 
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#219
#219
LouderVol said:
the apartment building that Americans or legals could still be living in. apartment building that Americans own. I doubt the NG is going to fund the repairs, probably not insurance either.

what do you think is involved in that "destruction" of the gang members. Going to be no collateral?

what's the appeals process with the NG when they round up a bunch of people and catch some innocents and go to deport them?

war looks a lot different, more violent, than a police raid. We have seen the cops, who are familiar with the area, who are trained to serve warrants, hit the wrong house or go after the wrong person. what we deal with from the cops is already too much. logic states that the NG will only do worse.
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You're right, cops can do plenty of damage when they start kicking doors down. Oh well, I guess we will just leave the gang members alone and let them do what they want. I'd sure hate to catch them all in one place, isolated. There is no real way to identify if they are here legally or not.
 
#220
#220
norrislakevol said:
You're right, cops can do plenty of damage when they start kicking doors down. Oh well, I guess we will just leave the gang members alone and let them do what they want. I'd sure hate to catch them all in one place, isolated. There is no real way to identify if they are here legally or not.
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never said leave them alone, quit being a snowflake.

there are other, better options. I am saying the NG will be worse than the cops. so if you have a problem with the cops like I do, than you should really have a problem with the NG.

I see it as the same thought process as it comes to immigration in general. we don't need new laws, we just need to actually enforce the ones we have. We don't need new entities chasing down illegals, the national guard, we just need the ones we have (ICE, FBI, local PD, etc) to be free to do their jobs.
 
#222
#222
LouderVol said:
never said leave them alone, quit being a snowflake.

there are other, better options. I am saying the NG will be worse than the cops. so if you have a problem with the cops like I do, than you should really have a problem with the NG.

I see it as the same thought process as it comes to immigration in general. we don't need new laws, we just need to actually enforce the ones we have. We don't need new entities chasing down illegals, the national guard, we just need the ones we have (ICE, FBI, local PD, etc) to be free to do their jobs.
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Well, I have been falsely arrested before, so I will never, ever fully trust anyone with the power to take my freedom in the blink of an eye based on a judgement call.

Having said that, we have a foreign, violent gang that is here illegally and has ran people out of their homes....basically taking ground in our country. To me that warrants swift and decisive force against them to crush them. That is why I am fine with using the NG. I care nothing about a member of an illegal gang from another country. If some of the gang members wind up KIA then whatever. Most likely the threat of using the NG will draw them out whimpering for mercy.

We just see things differently on what options can be used to get the job done is all.
 
#223
#223
norrislakevol said:
Well, I have been falsely arrested before, so I will never, ever fully trust anyone with the power to take my freedom in the blink of an eye based on a judgement call.

Having said that, we have a foreign, violent gang that is here illegally and has ran people out of their homes....basically taking ground in our country. To me that warrants swift and decisive force against them to crush them. That is why I am fine with using the NG. I care nothing about a member of an illegal gang from another country. If some of the gang members wind up KIA then whatever. Most likely the threat of using the NG will draw them out whimpering for mercy.

We just see things differently on what options can be used to get the job done is all.
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how do you justify both of the bolded statements?

the national guard are going to make far more of those mistakes with much worse consequences.
 
#224
#224
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