Vermont single payer health insurance

#201
#201
therealUT said:
Gibbs, if you want the US Federal Government to spend more money on health care in order to increase individual health, then you should be advocating that the government pump all that money into developing this technology to the point in which it is inexpensive enough to have in every household in America:

Notre Dame researchers developing hand held diagnostic device that can detect DNA of bacteria and viruses | iMedicalApps
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The future of medicine is a computer and a treatment plan print out, with specific medications and schedules.

Dr. Generic will see you now.

Although I haven't read that article yet, I'll stick with immuno histology for now. Stupid device would probably go to the radiologists anyway.
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#203
#203
fl0at said:
As everyone here has stated:

Our government is, what, $14 trillion dollars in debt, or so? Maybe not as good at managing money as some might hope.

Health care being one of the costs which must be reeled in. As even Proposal for Prosperity maintains.

Rationing care. Increased wait times. Current doctor shortage. Increased number of patients, increased work hours, decreased physician control on treatment regimens, red tape and superfluous guidelines to certain medications.

Hogwash. Far more rationing here and far more control here.

And for Neocon: Increased taxes.

Except everybody else pays far less per capita.

There are many others. Try pages 1-current, to name a few more.

On a positive note: An increase in number of patients will result in more money in the medical system, and Canada has some pretty nice salaries, so... not really a bad thing for personal finances.

I have to go put on the white coat (short one kpt... still the short one) and go play doctor. If you wish to discuss this after hours, I will be back.
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Your points ring fairly hollow, as indicated above.
 
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#204
#204
therealUT said:
Gibbs, if you want the US Federal Government to spend more money on health care in order to increase individual health, then you should be advocating that the government pump all that money into developing this technology to the point in which it is inexpensive enough to have in every household in America:

Notre Dame researchers developing hand held diagnostic device that can detect DNA of bacteria and viruses | iMedicalApps
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america-spends-7290-per-capita-on-health-care-far-more-than-other-countries.jpg


I'm advocating spending LESS but getting MORE. Like everyone else.
 
#205
#205
fl0at said:
And you are showing, what, here? That people die from heart disease? Holy wow, call the CDC... they'll want to hear about this... it is groundbreaking.
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It appears I'm showing you to be wrong in almost every regard.
 
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#206
#206
utgibbs said:
It appears I'm showing you to be wrong in almost every regard.
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Said the man who threw up random numbers with zero explanation of meaning.

Explain yourself as to what your heart disease numbers show, and we'll go from there.
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#207
#207
utgibbs said:
Your points ring fairly hollow, as indicated above.
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If your idea of reeling in spending is to give a spend thrift complete control of the credit card, then I can't help you.

If you think control is bad here, you would see a wave of physicians leaving for UK, Canada, and elsewhere.

As it stands, most seem to desire Australia, for now.
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#209
#209
justingroves said:
I manage to afford beer and insurance.
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If you can work it into your budget, it's all good. I just can't stand the people who would rather just not pay their medical bills or buy insurance, and party like it's 1999 on the weekends. I was that at one time, and I was dumb for doing so. I used to think insurance was one gigantic waste of money, but eventually realized that constant partying was a gigantic waste of money.
 
#210
#210
fl0at said:
Said the man who threw up random numbers with zero explanation of meaning.

Explain yourself as to what your heart disease numbers show, and we'll go from there.
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The random numbers (which were incorrect) were the claim the UK obesity rate (and growth rate) was half of our own.

The comparison between Cuba health metrics and our own shows the "race" argument is completely and utterly debunked.
 
#211
#211
BBC News - Surgeons raise alarm over waiting

Surgeons have described the delays faced by patients as "devastating and cruel". Peter Kay, the president of the British Orthopaedic Association (BOA), says they've become increasingly frustrated that hip and knee replacements are being targeted as a way of finding savings.

"We've started to get reports over the last nine months that access to these services are being restricted.
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"GPs were told not so send as many patients to hospital, maybe to delay referrals until the end of the financial year while perhaps introducing thresholds for surgery."

He says that simply delaying surgery by one means or another does not improve the outcome for patients as their condition can deteriorate.

"The double jeopardy is that patients wait longer in pain, and when they have the operation, the result might not have been as good as it otherwise would have been had they had it early. "
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hooray for the efficiency of government run healthcare!!
 
#212
#212
utgibbs said:
the "race" argument is completely and utterly debunked.
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I personally know a couple of PhD's in Sociology and Public Health who have said exactly the opposite.

I'm going to go ahead and trust their decades of work in the field over your misinformed opinion.
 
#214
#214
utgibbs said:
The random numbers (which were incorrect) were the claim the UK obesity rate (and growth rate) was half of our own.

The comparison between Cuba health metrics and our own shows the "race" argument is completely and utterly debunked.
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are you seriously arguing that races in different countries are all the same? that is an extremely racist thing to say.
 
#215
#215
milohimself said:
And people here have to wait or get turned down for surgery on a daily basis for financial or other reasons.

No system is perfect.
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and when it happens here, people have recourse, they have appeals, etc. When government is the provider and refuses care, where do the people go?
 
#220
#220
another quote from the BBC article:

A number of PCTs have been explicit about their decisions to put all routine operations on hold for several months up to April to help balance their budgets by the end of the financial year. They include Warrington, Sheffield, Eastern and Coastal Kent, Bury and Warwickshire.
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This is one of those things gibbs refuses to acknowledge in an honest way, when you have a fixed budget, if you spend all of your money early, you don't have any left later until the next fiscal period begins.
 
#221
#221
milohimself said:
I personally know a couple of PhD's in Sociology and Public Health who have said exactly the opposite.

I'm going to go ahead and trust their decades of work in the field over your misinformed opinion.
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Which opinion is that?
 
#222
#222
droski said:
are you seriously arguing that races in different countries are all the same? that is an extremely racist thing to say.
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I've seen a lot of racist posts in this thread. None have been mine. However, you have certainly been in a very gray area.

So, why don't you explain the "race" issue to me.
 
#223
#223
utgibbs said:
I've seen a lot of racist posts in this thread. None have been mine. However, you have certainly been in a very gray area.

So, why don't you explain the "race" issue to me.
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black people and hispanics are fatter than white people in this country. that is not true for europe. is this really that complicated?
 
#225
#225
milohimself said:
I personally know a couple of PhD's in Sociology and Public Health who have said exactly the opposite.

I'm going to go ahead and trust their decades of work in the field over your misinformed opinion.
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If you mean that there is certainly a marked demarcation in health outcomes in this country based on race, I've published that data ad infinitum in this thread. It would absolutely be correct.

Some people have been trumpeting that the propensity for diseases among ethnicities in our country explains that demarkation. However, a Third World country with a larger demographic of these ethnic groups somehow manages better health outcomes than we do.

So, I'm not sure which "misinformed" opinion I'm holding. However, if you care to elaborate, I'm willing to bet it's not misinformed at all.
 
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