Virginia Tech victims families get 11 million.

#51
#51
OrangeEmpire said:
In short, it looked as if the situation was domestic violence/angry lover.
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Unfortunately it was not a domestic dispute it was a deeply disturbed psychotic that teachers, classmates, staff, administrators, police, family, and campus cops knew of but failed to do anything about.
 
#52
#52
I have to seriously disagree with any and all y'all thinking the university shouldn't be held responsible to some degree.

What about the recruiters? IF any of you have been lucky enough to have a recruiter in your home you would know they push the safety issue just for mom and dad, seriously. I have no idea if the lives lost were recruits or just those that chose the school, it really makes no matter to me. My point is that when you send your child to a school that you are either footing the bill for or the child is begging financial aid for money so they can become educated, the point is the campus security, the teachers, profs, pres, EVERYONE on the payroll of that university has an obligation to keep it's student body safe. It has everything to do with the reputation of the school and the security of it's students.

I also agree 100 is not enough.
 
#53
#53
VolDad said:
Unfortunately it was not a domestic dispute it was a deeply disturbed psychotic that teachers, classmates, staff, administrators, police, family, and campus cops knew of but failed to do anything about.
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??????????????????????????????? :blink:

Where are you getting this from?

He had a history from when he first came to the country when he was in high school.

He had crazy doctor help throughout high school.

His patern did not resurface till he took a creative writing course and wrote a story about a killer.

He was then referred again to counseling and the counselor screened him as ok.

What is this bs blaming the police for not doing something?

:ill_h4h:
 
#54
#54
OrangeEmpire said:
What is this bs blaming the police for not doing something?
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I am not blaming the police. They are the ones that put their life on the line everyday. While everyone else was running away from the carnage, they were running toward it.

My post was related to the topic of why VT paid the families. Most tragedies are the result of numerous events and decisions, any of which could have prevented the tragedy. A lot of people were involved in this one.
 
#55
#55
Better solution: take the $11M and provide a cheap 9mm handgun to every member of the studen body.:eek:hmy:
 
#56
#56
Universities should be able to screen the students and kick one out once he does something wacky. Unfortunately, if the university would have kicked this guy out of college they would have probalby paid him 11 million for doing so. It's a catch 22. Pay now or pay later. Don't want to detract from the families that suffered and feel as though they should get something, but that something should not come from the state of VA or the university. Everyone just has to have someone to blame these days and the actions of a lunatic are not predictable and they are not capable of being stopped before they happen. I compare it to the relaxed immigration practices of the US. We all scream and yell when an Illegal Immigrant gets drunk and kills an innocent family, but it's always hindsight.
 
#57
#57
There is no telling what would have happened if Cho had been expelled but this guys opinion is:

The Americans with Disabilities Act Was No Barrier to Expelling Cho

The answer to that question isn't clear - but it is quite clear that the university could have legally opted, if it so chose, to expel Cho.

It has been suggested in the media that certain civil rights laws, such as the American with Disabilities Act (ADA) prevent a university from taking steps to remove a student who exhibits violent tendencies. However, this is almost certainly an urban myth. The ADA provides for reasonable accommodation of disabilities; it doesn't require the harboring of violent persons who present risks to others.

For example, in 1999, in Ascani v. Hofstra University, the U.S. Court of Appeals Second Circuit rejected any ADA challenge to a decision by Hofstra to expel a graduate student who had threatened a professor.

FindLaw's Writ - Sebok: Could Virginia Tech Be Held Liable for Cho Seung Hui's Shootings, If An Investigation Were to Reveal It Had Been Negligent?
 
#58
#58
Don't ya think they pondered expelling a student before and were advised against it by their legal personnel. I know I have personally conducted investigations only to be told to forget it for this very reason.
 
#59
#59
tim said:
Don't ya think they pondered expelling a student before and were advised against it by their legal personnel. I know I have personally conducted investigations only to be told to forget it for this very reason.
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Me to.....
 
#60
#60
tim said:
Don't ya think they pondered expelling a student before and were advised against it by their legal personnel. I know I have personally conducted investigations only to be told to forget it for this very reason.
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Perhaps that idea will be revisited after this?
 
#61
#61
hndog609 said:
Perhaps that idea will be revisited after this?
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Very doubtful, when I was promoted to the position I am in I inherited a problem child.

I had more than enough to fire her but since she was a woman and a significant percentage of native american I was not allowed to by senior staff.

Their response was to move her to somewhere where she wouldn't be a problem.

So I found her a quaint little post in the middle of no where by herself.

The pc response to this sort of stuff is to slide the problem some where without addressing it head on.
 
#62
#62
OrangeEmpire said:
Very doubtful, when I was promoted to the position I am in I inherited a problem child.

I had more than enough to fire her but since she was a woman and a significant percentage of native american I was not allowed to by senior staff.

Their response was to move her to somewhere where she wouldn't be a problem.

So I found her a quaint little post in the middle of no where by herself.

The pc response to this sort of stuff is to slide the problem some where without addressing it head on.
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Perhaps more leeway could be given to universities for students than employers?
 
#63
#63
It would be nice. But unfortunately these types of events don't make any difference when it comes to isolated incidents. Seems Americans have short memories when disaster strikes. I know, I know hard to believe. Seems as though something happened in September a couple of years ago... Anyone remember that one?
 
#64
#64
This might be what you are saying but I have to admit security is laughable at some universities. Even the mall. I remember this one time (at band camp, j/k) I had to have mall security take me out to my car, he was visibly shaking, bless his heart. Chattanooga must of been going through some sort of gang war at the time...
I've also been escorted to my car when I was in college (during that rape thing) and he was not armed, he was not protected appropriately. Whomever could have had whatever from us.

Why can't universities offer more firearms and protection to their security people? I mean, not like super obvious b/c that would take away from the beauty of most campus grounds, but just enough to be seen.
 
#65
#65
Volnissniss said:
Why can't universities offer more firearms and protection to their security people? I mean, not like super obvious b/c that would take away from the beauty of most campus grounds, but just enough to be seen.
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Let's just create a police state. Or, easy solution, those that wish to arm themselves with a firearm, may do so at their choosing.
 
#66
#66
therealUT said:
Let's just create a police state. Or, easy solution, those that wish to arm themselves with a firearm, may do so at their choosing.
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Isn't that a constitutional right anyway?

I had a professor in college that used to tell us "Don't go out and exercise your constitutional rights, you will go to jail!" He was a bit dramatic and I don't think anyone ever saw his eyes.
 
#67
#67
therealUT said:
Let's just create a police state. Or, easy solution, those that wish to arm themselves with a firearm, may do so at their choosing.
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I was diggin your idea of give everyone a 9mm.

after the first few years the accidental homicides and shootings in "passion" crimes would tail off. Then only responsible ones would be left
 
#68
#68
RockyTopEmpire said:
I was diggin your idea of give everyone a 9mm.

after the first few years the accidental homicides and shootings in "passion" crimes would tail off. Then only responsible ones would be left
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It would definitely be a rough transition period. But, hey, middle school is pretty rough, too. Without those akward formative years though, you continue to watch Sesame Stree and play with imaginary friends the rest of your life.
 
#69
#69
Transition Period or Total Chaos :dunno:

What would be the standards to packing heat? Anyone? Or anyone that has never committed a crime?
 
#70
#70
Volnissniss said:
Transition Period or Total Chaos :dunno:

What would be the standards to packing heat? Anyone? Or anyone that has never committed a crime?
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Anyone. If a judge sentences someone to a life without being able to carry a firearm, then that is up to the judge. Legislators should not step in and make some blanket law that says no ex-cons can ever carry firearms.

And, it most definitely would not be total chaos. 99.95% of all humans are completely opposed to the idea of killing another human. Throughout the history of rifle combat only between 15-25% of soldiers, in combat, with the enemy threatening had fired their weapons up until the Vietnam War (the increase was due to revolutionary and reactionary training methods.) Most Americans have never had such training and, therefore, most will not use their firearms, except in extreme circumstances.

However, the fact that any person in any situation is only a slight squeeze of their index finger away from ending your life...it would definitely make you think twice about trying to harm such an individual.

For all the hatred towards cops, by hardened criminals, they are rarely the victims of random acts of violence. Therefore, without the immense hatred, an individual carrying a sidearm on the street is even less likely to be the victim of a RAV than a uniformed cop on said street.
 
#71
#71
therealUT said:
Throughout the history of rifle combat only between 15-25% of soldiers, in combat, with the enemy threatening had fired their weapons up until the Vietnam War (the increase was due to revolutionary and reactionary training methods.) .
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Really? That is interesting
 
#72
#72
therealUT said:
Throughout the history of rifle combat only between 15-25% of soldiers, in combat, with the enemy threatening had fired their weapons up until the Vietnam War
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This sounds like stats based on S.L.A Marshall's work. There are a lot of people who are pretty dubious about those statistics.

The Marshall problem

Having said that there is no doubt that training did evolve to better overcome the innate aversion to killing another human.
 
#73
#73
hndog609 said:
This sounds like stats based on S.L.A Marshall's work. There are a lot of people who are pretty dubious about those statistics.

The Marshall problem

Having said that there is no doubt that training did evolve to better overcome the innate aversion to killing another human.
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While Marshall has often been derided by combat veterans, his work has been corroborated plenty. For a great expose' on reaction during combat, read Grossman's On Killing and On Combat.
 
#75
#75
therealUT said:
Anyone. If a judge sentences someone to a life without being able to carry a firearm, then that is up to the judge. Legislators should not step in and make some blanket law that says no ex-cons can ever carry firearms.

And, it most definitely would not be total chaos. 99.95% of all humans are completely opposed to the idea of killing another human. Throughout the history of rifle combat only between 15-25% of soldiers, in combat, with the enemy threatening had fired their weapons up until the Vietnam War (the increase was due to revolutionary and reactionary training methods.) Most Americans have never had such training and, therefore, most will not use their firearms, except in extreme circumstances.

However, the fact that any person in any situation is only a slight squeeze of their index finger away from ending your life...it would definitely make you think twice about trying to harm such an individual.

For all the hatred towards cops, by hardened criminals, they are rarely the victims of random acts of violence. Therefore, without the immense hatred, an individual carrying a sidearm on the street is even less likely to be the victim of a RAV than a uniformed cop on said street.
Click to expand...

If everyone is going to have one then everyone is going to have one.

That 99.95% is a very high percentage... as for the rest of that paragraph, it was surprising to me, a good surprise, wow.

Can you explain that fourth paragraph again? A bit long-winded today? :birgits_giggle:
 
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