Vols destined to only be a top 20 team...

[xpsyclonex2002]

I won't say we're fine but we aren't in trouble either. We just had the best 3 year run we've had in almost 25 years. We still aren't the Tennessee of the 90's but we also aren't playing in the 90's. CJH needs help in recruiting. Whether that be more money or better recruiters, I don't know or care. As long as it happens. The gap between the top 5 in recruiting and everyone else is a pretty steep drop off. We have to finish there and get the wins to keep the cycle going. It's a positive feedback loop.
I'm going to be honest. Saturday night was painful. We were embarrassed on prime time. We talked big time $hit. We got sent home broke. The portal is going to be our friend for the next few years. Everyone break out the wallet. We're gonna need more money.

 

[JohnWardForever]

Stop it

Truth hurts? It should. STOP denying. The evidence is in... As "good" as this team was, it's going to get worse next year, since most of the good players will be gone, and replacements are not on campus. Cmon guys. Be real. Can this staff take UT to the top? Ask that question 10 times. Same answer. More than out talented, and out played, Out Coached Saturday night. OSU was a 7 point Favorite. A team is judged by how they fare against the pointspread, which is determined by each team's stats. Figure it out. That was an embarrassing debacle. General Neyland would have had the Vols breathing fire the second half.

 

[BowlBrother85]

We can keep making the money excuse but heupel hasn’t remotely proven he can recruit with the best of them. Even when it comes to the portal

That's just wrong. We have someone else who only follows recruiting in the superficial sense of just looking at numerical rankings .... with no attention paid to player averages at all.

 

[ZZ13]

Whatever we are right now is good enough for me. I just want each season to be fun. And it was this year. The two week lead up to the OSU beatdown was a blast. We were going to lose along the way anyway, just like in the NCAAB tournament every year, so the loss wasn't a big deal to me. The most misguided thing I ever did in my life was devote a huge amount of mental and physical energy, emotion, and financial resources, for 40 years, to Tennessee sports. Could have applied that to so many more meaningful things. Anyway, sorry to detract. Back to the how do we become great brainstorming.

 

[Vfl2407]

or in a good year maybe top 10? Don't understand it but just not in the cards to be a consistent powerhouse year after year like georgia, alabama etcetera...

We have top twenty level talent and assistant coaches.
We don’t have top five or even top ten talent.
I thank CJH for making us relevant.
Don’t know if he can make us elite especially if he won’t make the necessary staff changes.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

To add to that, Heupel has also mismanaged his NIL portal free agent adds. He has not been good at properly identifying talent to fit his offensive system.

In the NFL, this is the job of a General Manager. The NFL went through a period where it was popular to let the coach act as general manager too and that didnt end well for most coaches.

I think this is why we're seeing teams hire someone and call the position General Manager.

We didn't do well until we hired a professional Athletic Director instead of the traditional coach or former coach as AD.

It would be best if UT got onboard with hiring someone to handle things like the NFL does with a professional General Manager to help with roster planning issues, portal analysis, etc at a pro level.

 

[BowlBrother85]

The gap between the top 5 in recruiting and everyone else is a pretty steep drop off.

This is true, and has a lot to do with not having the strength of a recruiting base to draw from. I don't think we can expect to recruit as well as Georgia and Texas. It's not happening. We are recruiting at a high enough level at the moment, however, to make the CFP .... and then anything can happen from there.

Even by the standards of this forum ..... the "whoa, is me" reactions to Saturday nights loss have been melodramatic and silly.

Do the people who are attacking Heupel as a recruiter even know that he was working with scholarship reductions and recruiting contact restrictions in 2022 and 2023 .... and didn't have a class of 2021 at all, because he wasn't hired until January 26, 2021?

There is some ignorance on display here. Heupel took the job when nobody else would. He has done better than what could have reasonably been expected 4 years ago. We looked dead in the water in December of 2020.

 

[JBVolunteer]

In reality, only a hand full of schools have everything needed to be a title contender every year. Tennessee isn’t one of them.

Ohio State has a major geographical advantage with incredible talent and no real in-state competition. It’s just a fact, they will recruit top 5 classes even in their worst years. Most of their advantages that make it the best coaching job in America are built-in.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

This is true, and has a lot to do with not having the strength of a recruiting base to draw from. I don't think we can expect to recruit as well as Georgia and Texas. It's not happening. We are recruiting at a high enough level at the moment, however, to make the CFP .... and then anything can happen from there.

Even by the standards of this forum ..... the "whoa, is me" reactions to Saturday nights loss have been melodramatic and silly.

Do the people who are attacking Heupel as a recruiter even know that he was working with scholarship reductions and recruiting contact restrictions in 2022 and 2023 .... and didn't have a class of 2021 at all, because he wasn't hired until January 26, 2021?

There is some ignorance on display here. Heupel took the job when nobody else would. He has done better than what could have reasonably been expected 4 years ago.

I suppose anything CAN happen if we make the CFP but the most likely occurrence is similar to what we saw Saturday when we run up against teams that recruit consistently above us.

The talent difference appeared at most positions and that's very difficult to overcome even if one or two of their guys are injured, hitting the portal, or just have an off night.

The good thing is we will have great seasons and lots of wins. The tough thing is: the CFP will likely be eye opening to expose the talent gap between the really good vs elite teams.

 

[BowlBrother85]

I suppose anything CAN happen if we make the CFP but the most likely occurrence is similar to what we saw Saturday when we run up against teams that recruit consistently above us.

The talent difference appeared at most positions and that's very difficult to overcome even if one or two of their guys are injured, hitting the portal, or just have an off night.

The good thing is we will have great seasons and lots of wins. The tough thing is: the CFP will likely be eye opening to expose the talent gap between the really good vs elite teams.

I would agree with this.... I really feel like if we had just beaten Arkansas, and then gotten home field against Indiana, SMU or Clemson .... and then we advance to the quarterfinals and get to play on a neutral field? You never know.

Where we really blew it was losing to Arkansas.

 

[ArmchairQB]

A bit of perspective about winning… we have 20 conference wins in the past four seasons. If you look at the four seasons before that, after you get rid of the ones Pruitt didn’t get to keep because he cheated poorly, what we’re left with is 2 conference wins. Over four years. So one key to feeling good about where we’re at is to remember just how big a hole we have already dug up out of. It’s wildly successful progress to even be in a position to be ticked off about being blown out in a playoff game.

There’s obviously a next step. We want to win SEC titles and national titles and the bar is clearly set that we expect to play at a championship level and we’re not there yet. It’s lunacy of the highest order though to look at our trajectory over eight years and say Heupel isn’t the guy at this point.

Next year is huge for us. This year due to a lot of teams being down, we got to December extremely unproven. We split with Georgia and Alabama, and then went 5-1 against the bottom half of the SEC. The only team with a losing record that we missed playing was Auburn. And next year will be exactly the same unless some other teams have some growth of their own. We *should* excel next year. So our next step for Heupel’s own growth is to see whether he’s going to be the super loyal guy he’s broadly thought to be, or if he’s going to evolve into a program CEO and look around when the production in any phase of the game isn’t where he wants it to be, given our schedule, and make the tough choice. Next year I want to see whether Inge has built better depth at LB or if we’re still an injury away from a big dropoff. I want to see growth from Halzle and Elarbee. I want to see if anyone but Garner is generating any talk the way Golesh did. And if they’re not, *then* we’ll know who we’ve got in Heupel.

 

[Bigorangefaninga]

We were in the top 6 for most of this past recruiting cycle. What happened is we didn't close strong. We let a couple of guys get picked off by other teams and we didnt get those 2-3 more elite recruits that would have put us over the top. Texas finished #1 despite being behind us most of this cycle because they closed strong by paying what they needed to pay to close on the five stars that were left.

If we wanna compete on that level we're gonna have to start paying big bucks like the other big boys are doing. Texas didn't land Justus Terry over Georgia because they were selling him on more playing time. They were willing to pay a price Georgia wasn't willing to match. That's the name of the game now. It's no longer about relationships but about money. The best teams will be the ones who pay the most money. Plain and simple.

Coaches have to do a better job of evaluating talent. Again you seem to be the same as everyone else on here that doesn’t understand we are top 2 in the country in NIL payments. The issue is we are paying the wrong people! OSU is the ONLY school in the country to pay more and we saw how that worked out, however again we pay more than Texas, Oregon, UGA without the results! That goes to coaching and evaluating. Have to do better with that or we either won’t make many CFP’s or when we do we get the crap kicked out of us. Issue is I’m not sure Heup has the guts to make the hard decisions to cut the staff that isn’t up to snuff and we will be stuck as 3-7 in SEC and hoping to get a birth into the CFP without a shot to win it though.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I would agree with this.... I really feel like if we had just beaten Arkansas, and then gotten home field against Indiana, SMU or Clemson .... and then we advance to the quarterfinals and get to play on a neutral field? You never know.

Where we really blew it was losing to Arkansas.

Absolutely. Similar to the USCe loss (which had other factors,) you CANNOT lose the games you should win, especially in the SEC.

Beating Bama and FL will ALWAYS be a good season but a great season is also not letting a team like Arkansas win.

Would it make a difference in getting a trophy? Probably not because the elite teams are steamrollers but we'd have a CFP tourney win under our belt which is a good thing for recruiting and morale.

 

[Delmar]

We can keep making the money excuse but heupel hasn’t remotely proven he can recruit with the best of them. Even when it comes to the portal

Doesn’t matter if it’s high school or the portal. Like it or not, nowadays there is a direct correlation between money and recruiting in both arenas. There is a reason why Oregon, Texas and Ohio State are on the top rung. They are spending more on NIL than anybody. And in case you weren’t paying attention, Josh was hamstrung by scholarship limitations for a couple of years and he had to be very selective how he used them. But don’t let reality get in the way. Carry on.

 

[Pride85]

or in a good year maybe top 10? Don't understand it but just not in the cards to be a consistent powerhouse year after year like georgia, alabama etcetera...

Each of those programs went through extended slumps as well. I don't know if you are just young or have selective amnesia. We are at the beginning of what could be something special. Although, if whiners like you get your way, we will be back in purgatory with one loser coach after another.

 

[Bigorangefaninga]

Doesn’t matter if it’s high school or the portal. Like it or not, nowadays there is a direct correlation between money and recruiting in both arenas. There is a reason why Oregon, Texas and Ohio State are on the top rung. They are spending more on NIL than anybody. And in case you weren’t paying attention, Josh was hamstrung by scholarship limitations for a couple of years and he had to be very selective how he used them. But don’t let reality get in the way. Carry on.

Good Lord! We are number 2 in NIL after OSU, not Texas, Not Oregon but UT, issue is we seem to not be good at picking the right players to actually pay! Our ROI isn’t very good, but it’s hilarious to see all of you that do no research to keep spouting off we won’t pay as much as anyone else when we already do, we just still haven’t had the results that show how much we spend!

 

[rocytop2624]

I've always been rational after the season ends. I just don't join yall on a week to week basis losing your minds over each performance. I stay positive during the season despite flaws showing themselves. When the season ends is when I critically evaluate the team and state what we need to do to improve.

After the Ohio State game it's obvious we have to upgrade our talent level if we wanna compete on that level.

Sampson hurt was a big deal . We could have played a lot better if we was healthy. Just to many playmakers on the team was hurt.

 

[Pride85]

Absolutely. Similar to the USCe loss (which had other factors,) you CANNOT lose the games you should win, especially in the SEC.

Beating Bama and FL will ALWAYS be a good season but a great season is also not letting a team like Arkansas win.

Would it make a difference in getting a trophy? Probably not because the elite teams are steamrollers but we'd have a CFP tourney win under our belt which is a good thing for recruiting and morale.

Yep, let's fire the coach with a 72%+ winning record. How dare he defy your standards. Please leave.

 

[Delmar]

Not top 10. Sorry. We are Not as good as smu or Indiana. Scoreboard.... What Tennessee was this year was a fraud top 10. Remove the blinders.....

That may be one of the silliest posts ever on here and that’s saying something.

 

[Pride85]

And there are those on this site that have the audacity to say other fanbases are entitled and arrogant. We finally have a coach and staff that has made us relevant again, and the idiotic branch of our "fanbase" act like complete morons.

 

[CPVOL]

We’re not going to out recruit the Ohio states and Georgia’s of the world.

We can. It wasn’t that long ago that Uga and OSU were mediocre. Pre-Kirby and Pre-Urban.
They’re one slip up from being mediocre just like all the rest.

 

[Delmar]

Truth hurts? It should. STOP denying. The evidence is in... As "good" as this team was, it's going to get worse next year, since most of the good players will be gone, and replacements are not on campus. Cmon guys. Be real. Can this staff take UT to the top? Ask that question 10 times. Same answer. More than out talented, and out played, Out Coached Saturday night. OSU was a 7 point Favorite. A team is judged by how they fare against the pointspread, which is determined by each team's stats. Figure it out. That was an embarrassing debacle. General Neyland would have had the Vols breathing fire the second half.

Stop changing the subject. Nobody is debating that we are better than OSU. You specifically said that Indiana and SMU are better than UT and that is patently false. Neither team beat anybody this year.

 

[Bigorangefaninga]

Also for those that don’t think we have the money to spend the money. I sat this weekend with a cousin, CEO of a pretty large company and UT fan. He called and talked to a lady about getting season tickets. Was told at 25,000 it would get him on the list which is about 6-7 years out, costs of the tickets were 6500. She said if he wanted to be put on the wait list to possibly get season tickets within next year or so that would be 500k minimum and if he wanted to guarantee season tickets for next year it would be at least a million and might take up to 1 and a quarter to skip the list. That goes to the Tennessee fund which is a general football fund. However there are ways to pretty much launder that money to the NIL without getting into trouble with NCAA rules on it. The University is not having ANY money issues to pay players and never will and they have been paying top notch money for NIL along with Spyre and others. We just have to do a better job of getting that money into the right players hands.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Yep, let's fire the coach with a 72%+ winning record. How dare he defy your standards. Please leave.

Hehe. Didn't say that at all. Losing to Arkansas didn't "ruin" our season and we were in the playoffs. It made our playoff picture harder but being in the playoffs is the goal. Getting a good spot in the playoffs is better.

I'm not at all a "Fahr Heupel" guy or even any of the staff. I'd rather hire a GM to help with finding and retaining players and planning an overall recruiting focus.

 

[ArmchairQB]

Also for those that don’t think we have the money to spend the money. I sat this weekend with a cousin, CEO of a pretty large company and UT fan. He called and talked to a lady about getting season tickets. Was told at 25,000 it would get him on the list which is about 6-7 years out, costs of the tickets were 6500. She said if he wanted to be put on the wait list to possibly get season tickets within next year or so that would be 500k minimum and if he wanted to guarantee season tickets for next year it would be at least a million and might take up to 1 and a quarter to skip the list. That goes to the Tennessee fund which is a general football fund. However there are ways to pretty much launder that money to the NIL without getting into trouble with NCAA rules on it. The University is not having ANY money issues to pay players and never will and they have been paying top notch money for NIL along with Spyre and others. We just have to do a better job of getting that money into the right players hands.

Side note ‘25 is when we start having that 10% talent fee hike in ticket prices that’s going to generate millions in additional new money that’s specifically for making sure the athletes are getting paid. If there’s a haves and have nots divide in college football, I know which side we’re on.