Wake Forest hires Steve Forbes

#76
#76
cncchris33 said:
I'd like to see Tennessee capitalize on the work Barnes has done to make this job a top-20 job and hire someone who reflects that status and level of success and commitmenr. I love Schwartz and English, but they wouldn't probably be in my top 20 of potential replacements if Barnes retired tomorrow. Tennessee is too good a program to be hiring unproven assistant coaches to be the head man.
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Wonder how fans would perceive Kara Lawson? She has time in the nba. It could be hard for her to recruit, but Nba experience recruits for you one would think. That is if she’s proven she can do it. Would have to have maybe a Gleague head coaching job first.
 
#77
#77
Dallasbowlin said:
Wonder how fans would perceive Kara Lawson? She has time in the nba. It could be hard for her to recruit, but Nba experience recruits for you one would think. That is if she’s proven she can do it. Would have to have maybe a Gleague head coaching job first.
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Dal, I know u don't mean as a replacement for Barnes ? Surely, u are talking about as a replacement for Kellie ?
 
#78
#78
Dallasbowlin said:
Wonder how fans would perceive Kara Lawson? She has time in the nba. It could be hard for her to recruit, but Nba experience recruits for you one would think. That is if she’s proven she can do it. Would have to have maybe a Gleague head coaching job first.
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Tennessee fans would, and should revolt if we did that. Like, Greg Schiano level revolt.
 
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#80
#80
cncchris33 said:
I'd like to see Tennessee capitalize on the work Barnes has done to make this job a top-20 job and hire someone who reflects that status and level of success and commitmenr. I love Schwartz and English, but they wouldn't probably be in my top 20 of potential replacements if Barnes retired tomorrow. Tennessee is too good a program to be hiring unproven assistant coaches to be the head man.
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It’s a crap shoot hiring an unknown. I bet Florida and Texas thought they were getting top 20 type coaches.
 
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#82
#82
walkenvol said:
It’s a crap shoot hiring an unknown. I bet Florida and Texas thought they were getting top 20 type coaches.
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Shaka really surprised me. I thought he had a Brad Stevens/Chris Mack kind of future. Mike White doesn't surprise me so much. Not because I always knew he was a moron, but because he hadn't done a lot, yet, to prove he couldn't possibly be one. Shaka just seemed like a guy, based on his level of consistency as HC at VCU over a long period (6 seasons), that had what it would take to translate that success to P6 basketball. Perhaps he was foolish and believed that transition would be seamless. He was handed a lot of money at 38 years old, and he had never really experienced adversity as a HC.

Seeing programs like Florida and Texas have to take the route of mid-major coach following the long tenure of HOF coaches makes me believe Tennessee may have to track a similar path, but I would be much more satisfied with Tennessee chancing it with someone with a Shaka Smart or Mike White type resumé than a guy like Kim English or Michael Schwartz, or even Rob Lanier, based on his current resume. Lanier, at least as HC experience, but hasn't had any real success to this point. The SEC isn't really a place to cut your teeth. In the football realm, it really makes what Jeremy Pruitt is doing all the more impressive.
 
#83
#83
Backwards K said:
He should have waited for a better opportunity. He is a great coach and would have had better opportunities in the next year or so. WF is about the size of LIpscomb and is trying to compete in the ACC. It's a graveyard.
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He loses 6 seniors and 5 of his top 8 scorers. Not sure he wanted to take that risk with an ACC job open and anxious to hire him, plus the added bonus of likely quadrupling his current salary at ETSU. He may have gotten a better job next year by waiting, but that was a calculated risk. He only really needs 2-3 years of being better than Danny Manning was at Wake to parlay that into a nicer job somewhere else, perhaps even a return to Tennessee.
 
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#84
#84
Backwards K said:
He should have waited for a better opportunity. He is a great coach and would have had better opportunities in the next year or so. WF is about the size of LIpscomb and is trying to compete in the ACC. It's a graveyard.
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Wake has been down for several years, but you're downplaying that job quite a bit. They've been to more NCAA tournaments, and have more tourney wins, than us. They made 2 really bad hires after Gaudio, and have suffered badly for it. They're certainly no blue blood, and your point about having to compete in the ACC in the shadow of Duke/UNC is valid, but a graveyard?
 
#85
#85
cncchris33 said:
Tennessee fans would, and should revolt if we did that. Like, Greg Schiano level revolt.
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Why? If we hired her tomorrow that would not be good but in five years down the road if she gets promoted and she gets to be on the bench as a top 3 assistant working under Brad Stevens? Thats a good opportunity.
 
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#86
#86
zjcvols said:
Why? If we hired her tomorrow that would not be good but in five years down the road if she gets promoted and she gets to be on the bench as a top 3 assistant working under Brad Stevens? Thats a good opportunity.
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No,I wouldn't support her as the next Tennessee men's basketball head coach. Just not enough experience for my liking!
 
#88
#88
wtmvol said:
Wake has been down for several years, but you're downplaying that job quite a bit. They've been to more NCAA tournaments, and have more tourney wins, than us. They made 2 really bad hires after Gaudio, and have suffered badly for it. They're certainly no blue blood, and your point about having to compete in the ACC in the shadow of Duke/UNC is valid, but a graveyard?
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I think the new look ACC has affected a school like WF. Adding Louisville and Syracuse, two traditionally very good programs, puts WF back down even more. Then, you have Tony Bennett at UVA and even someone like Jim Larranega at Miami, who are both good coaches. Forbes will improve the program, but I was a mildly surprised he didn't wait for a better offer.
 
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#89
#89
VolGee4 said:
I think the new look ACC has affected a school like WF. Adding Louisville and Syracuse, two traditionally very good programs, puts WF back down even more. Then, you have Tony Bennett at UVA and even someone like Jim Larranega at Miami, who are both good coaches. Forbes will improve the program, but I was a mildly surprised he didn't wait for a better offer.
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I could see Steve Forbes leaving WF for Tennessee when Rick Barnes retires.
 
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#90
#90
zjcvols said:
Why? If we hired her tomorrow that would not be good but in five years down the road if she gets promoted and she gets to be on the bench as a top 3 assistant working under Brad Stevens? Thats a good opportunity.
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Because she would have exactly 0 college coaching experience, 0 head coaching experience, 0 recruiting contacts and worthwhile knowledge of the collegiate recruiting landscape, and because of all that, there would be scores and scores of more qualified individuals. Tennessee shouldn't be so desperate for a coach that they hire someone whose resumé reads, "5 years of NBA assistant coach", and that's it.

She may have a great deal of basketball knowledge, but she would have to hire a staff that would kill it in recruiting. Finding that kind of staff willing to work under a woman in a men's sport may be challenging, and maybe it wouldn't, but an AD would be putting his career on the line to find out if it would work. All kinds of stereotypical hurdles to overcome for Lawson to be successful in addition to the tangible hurdles I already mentioned. No way she is even dreamt up by anyone in our fanbase if she didn't play for Tennessee.

She would have roughly the same kind of experience Juwan Howard had, and an ounce of the national notoriety. In addition to the stereotypes she would be fighting, I just see no way that she is the best choice for Tennessee basketball, and if we, as a program are forced to dip that deep into a pool of candidates, then the AD should be fired, too.
 
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#91
#91
VolGee4 said:
I think the new look ACC has affected a school like WF. Adding Louisville and Syracuse, two traditionally very good programs, puts WF back down even more. Then, you have Tony Bennett at UVA and even someone like Jim Larranega at Miami, who are both good coaches. Forbes will improve the program, but I was a mildly surprised he didn't wait for a better offer.
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That's valid, except I think Larranaga's best days are well behind him. I would argue UVA faced a similar challenge 11 years ago when they hired Bennett. After their really solid run in the early to mid '90s, they had pretty much sucked (3 NCAA tourney appearances with a grand total of 1 win over a 14 year span. Granted, Bennett was much more of a proven commodity than Forbes is, but the challenge there was still daunting. 4 years in, it didn't really look like the hire was going to pay off (1 tourney appearance and no wins). But then it did. Conferences are always ebbing and flowing. Certain programs who have been really good trail off which makes room for other teams to jump up. We'll see. I'll be pulling for them, except I still have a strong dislike for their stupid AD.
 
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#92
#92
cncchris33 said:
Because she would have exactly 0 college coaching experience, 0 head coaching experience, 0 recruiting contacts and worthwhile knowledge of the collegiate recruiting landscape, and because of all that, there would be scores and scores of more qualified individuals. Tennessee shouldn't be so desperate for a coach that they hire someone whose resumé reads, "5 years of NBA assistant coach", and that's it.

She may have a great deal of basketball knowledge, but she would have to hire a staff that would kill it in recruiting. Finding that kind of staff willing to work under a woman in a men's sport may be challenging, and maybe it wouldn't, but an AD would be putting his career on the line to find out if it would work. All kinds of stereotypical hurdles to overcome for Lawson to be successful in addition to the tangible hurdles I already mentioned. No way she is even dreamt up by anyone in our fanbase if she didn't play for Tennessee.

She would have roughly the same kind of experience Juwan Howard had, and an ounce of the national notoriety. In addition to the stereotypes she would be fighting, I just see no way that she is the best choice for Tennessee basketball, and if we, as a program are forced to dip that deep into a pool of candidates, then the AD should be fired, too.
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The stuff about the lack of college experience is completely valid. But when Barnes retires, Tennessee is not going to hire a proven commodity. They'll most likely hire a mid major or promote an assistant.
 
#93
#93
zjcvols said:
The stuff about the lack of college experience is completely valid. But when Barnes retires, Tennessee is not going to hire a proven commodity. They'll most likely hire a mid major or promote an assistant.
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I realize we aren't going to go out and nab a Mark Few or Gregg Marshall. I just think there is an entire ocean of candidates between those guys and Kara Lawson, full of coaches who check off a lot more boxes and come with significantly less risk.
 
#94
#94
Tennesseefan2019 said:
I could see Steve Forbes leaving WF for Tennessee when Rick Barnes retires.
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WF center Sarrs 7 footer who had good numbers signed with Kentucky. This may end up being a grave yard for Forbes. The competition ACC not sure you can build a team of JUCO's to compete in ACC like he did at ETSU in the Southern. Think they have 5 or 6 in transfer portal.
 
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#95
#95
wtmvol said:
That's valid, except I think Larranaga's best days are well behind him. I would argue UVA faced a similar challenge 11 years ago when they hired Bennett. After their really solid run in the early to mid '90s, they had pretty much sucked (3 NCAA tourney appearances with a grand total of 1 win over a 14 year span. Granted, Bennett was much more of a proven commodity than Forbes is, but the challenge there was still daunting. 4 years in, it didn't really look like the hire was going to pay off (1 tourney appearance and no wins). But then it did. Conferences are always ebbing and flowing. Certain programs who have been really good trail off which makes room for other teams to jump up. We'll see. I'll be pulling for them, except I still have a strong dislike for their stupid AD.
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I don't disagree about the ebb and flow, but I believe UVA is in a better position to succeed. Their one instate P5 rival is not great at basketball, and their student population is 3x that of Wake Forest. I visited WF on a college tour, and the campus is kind of cool and different. But, it's not for everyone.
 
#96
#96
zjcvols said:
The stuff about the lack of college experience is completely valid. But when Barnes retires, Tennessee is not going to hire a proven commodity. They'll most likely hire a mid major or promote an assistant.
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And that approach is why all of the men's teams went into a 15-20 year funk. UT always wants to spends 100s of Millions on facilities and go bargain hunting for unproven coaches. Luckily, Fulmer can recognize a real football coach and he really cares about Tennessee Athletics (unlike Hamilton and Dave Hart).
 
#98
#98
cncchris33 said:
I realize we aren't going to go out and nab a Mark Few or Gregg Marshall. I just think there is an entire ocean of candidates between those guys and Kara Lawson, full of coaches who check off a lot more boxes and come with significantly less risk.
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So even with those points you think if we did hire her you truly think we should revolt like we did with Schiano? I thought UT revolted against the Schiano hire because he allegedly knew of child rape?
 
#99
#99
Backwards K said:
And that approach is why all of the men's teams went into a 15-20 year funk. UT always wants to spends 100s of Millions on facilities and go bargain hunting for unproven coaches. Luckily, Fulmer can recognize a real football coach and he really cares about Tennessee Athletics (unlike Hamilton and Dave Hart).
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Fulmer hired somebody with zero experience for the football coach.

It is not a cheap thing. It is not bargain hunting. Coaches make too much money other places to leave. All other schools have the same problem.
 
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