War in Ukraine

How does adding Moldova and a partitioned Ukraine help the EU? What goods or resources will they offer? How will Sweden and Finland help NATO? Neither have a significant troop count and they don't add anything in terms of equipment.

If accepted, their presence would instantly more than double the border between NATO countries and Russia, from around 750 miles to around 1,600.

At present, NATO has land borders with Russia spanning 754 miles across northern Norway, eastern Latvia and Estonia, and the borders with Poland and Lithuania around Russia's Kaliningrad region.

Finland joining would add 830 miles of continuous border along northwestern Russia, taking the total to 1,584 miles. Sweden has no land border with Russia, but is a major presence along the coast of the Baltic Sea.
 
You are right. This is the United States where we allow hospital procedures, lawyers and Big Pharma trap patients on a particular treatment and won't allow for alternative treatments when it is obvious the present course is not working. And, they can refuse treatment based on vaccination status.
“Trap them” 😂. Might want to study on ETMALA too there comrade McVeigh
 
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If accepted, their presence would instantly more than double the border between NATO countries and Russia, from around 750 miles to around 1,600.

At present, NATO has land borders with Russia spanning 754 miles across northern Norway, eastern Latvia and Estonia, and the borders with Poland and Lithuania around Russia's Kaliningrad region.

Finland joining would add 830 miles of continuous border along northwestern Russia, taking the total to 1,584 miles. Sweden has no land border with Russia, but is a major presence along the coast of the Baltic Sea.
I thought NATO was a defensive coalition? Seems like you would want to minimize contact with an alleged enemy, not escalate engagement.
 
How does adding Moldova and a partitioned Ukraine help the EU? What goods or resources will they offer? How will Sweden and Finland help NATO? Neither have a significant troop count and they don't add anything in terms of equipment.
You conveniently ignored the part about strengthening the northern flank. Plus, why wouldn’t adding troops and equipment be seen as a positive? The only reason they didnt already join was they were trying to be neutral. Of course, Russia ****ed that up with their barbarity.

And clearly the EU sees value in adding the countries. And, of course, Russia sees value in throwing a tantrum about it.
 
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You conveniently ignored the part about strengthening the northern flank. Plus, why wouldn’t adding troops and equipment be seen as a positive? The only reason they didnt already join was they were trying to be neutral. Of course, Russia ****ed that up with their barbarity.

And clearly the EU sees value in adding the countries. And, of course, Russia sees value in throwing a tantrum about it.
The northern flank? WTF are you talking about? Finland and Sweden were buffers between Russia and NATO.
 
I thought NATO was a defensive coalition? Seems like you would want to minimize contact with an alleged enemy, not escalate engagement.

It is, you can tell by the way the west hasn't attacked and has maintained its defense posture despite Russia's unprovoked aggression at rhetoric to the rest of Europe.

I'll bet you wish you could go a day in here without stepping on your di*k. You have no water left to carry. Your "won't someone think of the Donbass?" cries are as hollow as the ones that blame the gay Ukrainian nazi jews. You leap from one absurd excuse to another with whataboutisims sprinkled throughout. I ain't mad tho - you amuse me.
 
I'm not even sure what you are talking about. You call adding Sweden and Finland into NATO a win? Adding Ukraine (whatever is left of it) and Moldova a benefit to an already dying EU a win? What do any of those countries add to the EU or NATO?
Moldova can't even defeat Transnistria. But I'm sure if they join NATO it will bring Russia to its knees.
 
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This is the third russian missile posted that I've seen malfunction. There are only three explanations.

1:Russia is holding back and giving thier guys the back catalog they have had in storage for years.

2:Russia is out of ammo while it tries to fab more from stolen goods.

3:It's a fake campaign.

I can't tell you which, but this totally believable.


That's certainly a ruin your whole day kind of thing. Boom, boom, boomerang.
 
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I am awake. I had been pushing and supporting a diplomatic solution since 2014. The West on the other hand only saw military escalation as a remedy. So this is why we are where we are at. Interestingly the only country to use a nuke is also a country that openly embraces a nuclear first strike option. So who is really more likely to use nukes? The US with a senile/corrupt Biden or Russia with a leadership that is actually protecting Russian people? Nuclear war doesn't help anyone except those corrupt leaders in Washington, London and Brussels.

Ok. That settles it. You're either trolling this all the way down to the ground, or have no connection with reality. Which is it??
 
Exactly right. John Quincy Adams had it correct with regards to us going overseas looking for monsters to destrpy. We ended up being that monster ourselves. From Latin America to the Midle East, we have done far more damage after World War II than any other nation.

You mean if you don't count all the people around the world that Russian communists subjugated. They had quite a swath at one time, and there wasn't much except the US getting in the way of Russia and then China when their communist stupidity bled over. Is it really worse to kill someone in a war than to kill them through the failure known as communism - remember it include the KGB and all the forerunners and their spawn like the E German Stasi? Don't forget rocket man and his whole looney N Korean family, and the genocidal African and Asian idiots that Russia trained over the years.
 
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How does adding Moldova and a partitioned Ukraine help the EU? What goods or resources will they offer? How will Sweden and Finland help NATO? Neither have a significant troop count and they don't add anything in terms of equipment.

Ukraine has a lot of land for crops where much of the EU is limited. Ukraine has resources the EU needs - producers and consumers make a pretty good combination. Ukraine also has a lot of coastline along the Black Sea, and Russia desperately wants it. For as large a country as Russia is, it is almost landlocked and where it isn't, the lack of ice free ports in the winter is an issue.

Sweden and Finland are in a great position to secure the northern boundaries. Sweden has a lot of access to the Baltic and controls one side of the exit the Russians need for getting a bottled up fleet out. The Finns are no slackers, and the Swedes continue to produce some great weaponry. Both seem reliable partners for NATO. Check out stuff that Saab makes - ever hear of Bofors guns? For a country that's been a neutral for decades, Sweden has some impressive armaments; they've been in the top ten arms exporters for a while - not sure about the current status there. Strategically, both seem to be fantastic additions to NATO.
 
You mean if you don't count all the people around the world that Russian communists subjugated. They had quite a swath at one time, and there wasn't much except the US getting in the way of Russia and then China when their communist stupidity bled over. Is it really worse to kill someone in a war than to kill them through the failure known as communism - remember it include the KGB and all the forerunners and their spawn like the E German Stasi? Don't forget rocket man and his whole looney N Korean family, and the genocidal African and Asian idiots that Russia trained over the years.
Ukraine has a lot of land for crops where much of the EU is limited. Ukraine has resources the EU needs - producers and consumers make a pretty good combination. Ukraine also has a lot of coastline along the Black Sea, and Russia desperately wants it. For as large a country as Russia is, it is almost landlocked and where it isn't, the lack of ice free ports in the winter is an issue.

Sweden and Finland are in a great position to secure the northern boundaries. Sweden has a lot of access to the Baltic and controls one side of the exit the Russians need for getting a bottled up fleet out. The Finns are no slackers, and the Swedes continue to produce some great weaponry. Both seem reliable partners for NATO. Check out stuff that Saab makes - ever hear of Bofors guns? For a country that's been a neutral for decades, Sweden has some impressive armaments; they've been in the top ten arms exporters for a while - not sure about the current status there. Strategically, both seem to be fantastic additions to NATO.

It's a little sad for Ras that you have to give him history and geography lessons.
 
It's a little sad for Ras that you have to give him history and geography lessons.

I generally like Ras and his take on stuff. I just don't get his anti-US sentiment. We aren't perfect - nobody ever is; but like it or not, the world really has become something dominated by three super-states similar to what Orwell envisioned. We seem to be the only one of the three not dedicated either to dominance or taking neighboring counties by force. Our attempts (many of which appear foolish or meddlesome - especially to people like Ras) to "help" others sometimes do backfire and cost us goodwill within our own country and outside. But there is a huge difference in misplaced nation building and colonialism or outright theft of countries.
 
Love this newly designed boomerang missile the Russians have.


Ballistic missile super use tip of the day: Always be sure to separate your launch coordinates from your target coordinates and pay attention to the data fields for each when entering the data in the weapon navigator

What a bunch of incompetent morons. That wasn’t a malfunction the weapon hit exactly what it was told to hit 😂
 
Ukraine has a lot of land for crops where much of the EU is limited. Ukraine has resources the EU needs - producers and consumers make a pretty good combination.
80% of Ukraine's GDP is generated east of the Dnieper River.

Ukraine also has a lot of coastline along the Black Sea, and Russia desperately wants it. For as large a country as Russia is, it is almost landlocked and where it isn't, the lack of ice free ports in the winter is an issue.
They already had Crimea. Odessa is an important port, but also carries a lot of historical and cultural significance for Russia. Ukraine, going forward, will be a landlocked, partitioned state.

Sweden and Finland are in a great position to secure the northern boundaries. Sweden has a lot of access to the Baltic and controls one side of the exit the Russians need for getting a bottled up fleet out.
So let me ask you... is NATO a defensive alliance or an offensive alliance? What you are mentioning looks like aggressive offensive actions.

The Finns are no slackers, and the Swedes continue to produce some great weaponry. Both seem reliable partners for NATO. Check out stuff that Saab makes - ever hear of Bofors guns? For a country that's been a neutral for decades, Sweden has some impressive armaments; they've been in the top ten arms exporters for a while - not sure about the current status there. Strategically, both seem to be fantastic additions to NATO.
But do they have the manufacturing capacity for these weapons? Enough to support a NATO force in wartime is what I mean.
 
80% of Ukraine's GDP is generated east of the Dnieper River.


They already had Crimea. Odessa is an important port, but also carries a lot of historical and cultural significance for Russia. Ukraine, going forward, will be a landlocked, partitioned state.


So let me ask you... is NATO a defensive alliance or an offensive alliance? What you are mentioning looks like aggressive offensive actions.


But do they have the manufacturing capacity for these weapons? Enough to support a NATO force in wartime is what I mean.

Why should Russia have Crimea or Kaliningrad? Neither are really contingent to the rest of Russia. You could make the same argument you make for Odessa in any number of cases around the globe, but it doesn't change what happens when colonialism or occupation of one sort or another ends. The colonial power or occupier gives it up.

NATO is defensive; that's always been the aim. Obviously if Russia as an aggressor faces a bottleneck like the Bosporus or Kattegat to become a bigger menace, then stopping it might be considered both defensive and offensive depending on point of view - maybe most of us would agree blocking the Russian fleet would be defensive.

Do any of the other non-US NATO countries have the ability to manufacture weapons to support a wartime effort? Sweden is in no worse a position than most other European NATO countries. That's the point about the US and NATO (and what should be a NATO analogue in the Pacific), we theoretically have strategically isolated resources and manufacturing during times of war - at least we did before globalism's ugly head popped up. Of course, Putin's comments about his nukes make too many people here quiver in their boots.
 
Why should Russia have Crimea or Kaliningrad? Neither are really contingent to the rest of Russia.
The same reason why we have Alaska and Hawaii.

You could make the same argument you make for Odessa in any number of cases around the globe, but it doesn't change what happens when colonialism or occupation of one sort or another ends. The colonial power or occupier gives it up.
The colonial power in this case is being asked to return... and the people are happy to receive them. Also, you really do corrupt the term "colonial" because in 99% of the cases you are referring to, the colonial power had vastly different ethnic, religious and cultural arrangements than the colony. You and I both know that isn't the case with Donbas, Crimea and the Black Sea coast.

NATO is defensive; that's always been the aim.
You have to be kidding me, right? The objective from the very beginning was to keep the US in, the Soviets out and Germany down. Up until Putin stepped on the stage over two decades ago, they were successful with Russia, but you are now starting to see this conflict destroy and hollow out Europe's largest economy in Germany. Also, since the fall of the Soviet Union, NATO has specifically been used as a way to be provocative towards Russian Federation. They expanded eastward and up to Russia's borders... ignoring any security concerns they may have had. And if they really wanted to show they were genuine about wanting to be a defensive alliance, then they would have allowed a naive and green Putin join NATO in 2000/2001. That was a blown opportunity because the Russian Bear at that time had no teeth or claws and was bottoming out a decade of Yeltsin and economic decay. They were at a weakened, vulnerable and desperate state. But after 2008, Putin and Russia realized that there was no way that The West was going to make peace with them. They had ambitions of at some point trying to do to Russia what they have been doing in Ukraine for the past 30 years... robbing resources, installing Western oligarchs and burning through the labor of the people there.

Obviously if Russia as an aggressor faces a bottleneck like the Bosporus or Kattegat to become a bigger menace, then stopping it might be considered both defensive and offensive depending on point of view - maybe most of us would agree blocking the Russian fleet would be defensive.
A blockade is not defensive, it is an act of war and you damn well know that. Hell, the Arabs tried to blockade the Straits of Tiran and the Israelis called it an act of war.

Do any of the other non-US NATO countries have the ability to manufacture weapons to support a wartime effort? Sweden is in no worse a position than most other European NATO countries. That's the point about the US and NATO (and what should be a NATO analogue in the Pacific), we theoretically have strategically isolated resources and manufacturing during times of war - at least we did before globalism's ugly head popped up.
Your first sentence... at this point there are NO NATO countries that have the ability to support a wartime effort. I just posted an article either today or yesterday where the British defense minister said it would take years to them to replenish what they have given to Ukraine. I posted a story last week where his Polish counterpart or someone in the Polish govt was begging for tanks... even Soviet era tanks, to replenish their stockpiles. And there is a long article that came out just yesterday that points to the lack of manufacturing in NATO/The West to support this measly regional conflict. You won't read it because it isn't going to be in line with your beliefs. But it points out everything I've said, everything Trump has said, everything most people with common sense would say.... this combination of green politics, de-industrialization, globalization, just-in-time manufacturing that is heavily dependent on long supply chains and diminishing the crafts and trades professions. By now, it should be quite clear that Russia does not have those problems. Look at the numbers this British analyst is providing and ask yourself how in the hell the US can replenish it's stockpile of Javelins at the snap of a finger? How the US can produce 1100-2100 cruise missiles in 3 months, which is what the Russians are estimated of using?

The Return of Industrial Warfare | Royal United Services Institute (rusi.org)

Unfortunately, this is not only the case with artillery. Anti-tank Javelins and air-defence Stingers are in the same boat. The US shipped 7,000 Javelin missiles to Ukraine – roughly one-third of its stockpile – with more shipments to come. Lockheed Martin produces about 2,100 missiles a year, though this number might ramp up to 4,000 in a few years. Ukraine claims to use 500 Javelin missiles every day.

The expenditure of cruise missiles and theatre ballistic missiles is just as massive. The Russians have fired between 1,100 and 2,100 missiles. The US currently purchases 110 PRISM, 500 JASSM and 60 Tomahawk cruise missiles annually, meaning that in three months of combat, Russia has burned through four times the US annual missile production. The Russian rate of production can only be estimated. Russia started missile production in 2015 in limited initial runs, and even in 2016 the production runs were estimated at 47 missiles. This means that it had only five to six years of full-scale production.


Of course, Putin's comments about his nukes make too many people here quiver in their boots.
Oh stop it. Putin's comments shouldn't make you quiver, you need to worry about who the f*** has got their finger on the trigger over here with that senile, bumbling hack we have. I can't take you serious right now. You hate Russians more than you love common horse sense. You damn well know that was clearly meant as a warning and a reminder to The West that Russia is not a country they can easily bully without repercussions. The leaders in the West, unfortunately, do not behave like Russia is a nuclear power and continue to act belligerently and provocatively. These Western leaders are corrupt, idiotic and dangerous. And I hope for their downfall (not the people of the West but our leadership) everyday.
 
The northern flank? WTF are you talking about? Finland and Sweden were buffers between Russia and NATO.

Not any more. Pootin cut off his nose to spite his face here. Over time, one country after another has been invaded by him. After Ukraine, who is next? You can't blame them for joining now. They don't want the same to happen to them. It's simple survival.
 

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