War in Ukraine

Not any more. Pootin cut off his nose to spite his face here. Over time, one country after another has been invaded by him. After Ukraine, who is next? You can't blame them for joining now. They don't want the same to happen to them. It's simple survival.
At this point, Finland and Sweden don't need to join NATO. NATO has gone nearly broke in a pseudo-Article 5 situation with Ukraine, a non-NATO member. Ukraine I'm sure isn't held down by the NATO funding limits that irritated Trump so much with these other countries. Why should Finland and Sweden join and be required to maintain these fiscal demands when the Euros will likely give away their arms to them if a situation did come up between them and Russia?
 
At this point, Finland and Sweden don't need to join NATO. NATO has gone nearly broke in a pseudo-Article 5 situation with Ukraine, a non-NATO member. Ukraine I'm sure isn't held down by the NATO funding limits that irritated Trump so much with these other countries. Why should Finland and Sweden join and be required to maintain these fiscal demands when the Euros will likely give away their arms to them if a situation did come up between them and Russia?

Financial responsibilities are not even entering their minds here. The thoughts of them being attacked are.....and the realization that if they are a member, and get attacked, the U.S., England, ect will enter on their side and the Ruskies cannot win in that fight.
 
Financial responsibilities are not even entering their minds here. The thoughts of them being attacked are.....and the realization that if they are a member, and get attacked, the U.S., England, ect will enter on their side and the Ruskies cannot win in that fight.
And again, you miss the point. If NATO would anxiously jump in for Ukraine, which is non-NATO, then I would bet you a billion dollars that I don't have that they would follow the same practice if Finland or Sweden were attacked and non-NATO members.
 
At this point, Finland and Sweden don't need to join NATO. NATO has gone nearly broke in a pseudo-Article 5 situation with Ukraine, a non-NATO member. Ukraine I'm sure isn't held down by the NATO funding limits that irritated Trump so much with these other countries. Why should Finland and Sweden join and be required to maintain these fiscal demands when the Euros will likely give away their arms to them if a situation did come up between them and Russia?
Oddly enough that isn’t Pootin’s or your choice Moe. It’s up to Finland and Sweden.

Remember your asshat hero even got the Swiss to not stay neutral and send relief funds to Ukraine. Pootin accomplished something even Hitler couldn’t do 😂
 
And again, you miss the point. If NATO would anxiously jump in for Ukraine, which is non-NATO, then I would bet you a billion dollars that I don't have that they would follow the same practice if Finland or Sweden were attacked and non-NATO members.

Ukraine isn't a member. Weapons and intelligence have been provided to them, not actual NATO affiliated troops and weapons operated by NATO members. If Finland and Sweden join then they are counting on F22 Raptors and Super Hornets blowing up Russians, if the Russians ever invade them.
 
These are some wilds statistics...

The Return of Industrial Warfare | Royal United Services Institute (rusi.org)

The winner in a prolonged war between two near-peer powers is still based on which side has the strongest industrial base. A country must either have the manufacturing capacity to build massive quantities of ammunition or have other manufacturing industries that can be rapidly converted to ammunition production. Unfortunately, the West no longer seems to have either.

The war in Ukraine has proven that the age of industrial warfare is still here. The massive consumption of equipment, vehicles and ammunition requires a large-scale industrial base for resupply – quantity still has a quality of its own. The mass scale combat has pitted 250,000 Ukrainian soldiers, together with 450,000 recently mobilised citizen soldiers against about 200,000 Russian and separatist troops.
250,000 Ukrainian + 450,000 citizen soldiers against 200,000 Russian and separatists...

Finally, there are $75 million dedicated for Excalibur precision-guided munitions that costs $176K per round, thus totaling 426 rounds. In short, US annual artillery production would at best only last for 10 days to two weeks of combat in Ukraine. If the initial estimate of Russian shells fired is over by 50%, it would only extend the artillery supplied for three weeks.

The US is not the only country facing this challenge. In a recent war game involving US, UK and French forces, UK forces exhausted national stockpiles of critical ammunition after eight days.

I had just posted a story about the British running out of ammo, so this lines up with that story.

There is only one customer in the US for artillery shells – the military. Once the orders drop off, the manufacturer must close production lines to cut costs to stay in business. Small businesses may close entirely. Generating new capacity is very challenging, especially as there is so little manufacturing capacity left to draw skilled workers from. This is especially challenging because many older armament production systems are labour intensive to the point where they are practically built by hand, and it takes a long time to train a new workforce. The supply chain issues are also problematic because subcomponents may be produced by a subcontractor who either goes out of business, with loss of orders or retools for other customers or who relies on parts from overseas, possibly from a hostile country.

Finally, there is an assumption about overall ammunition consumption rates. The US government has always lowballed this number. From the Vietnam era to today, small arms plants have shrunk from five to just one. This was glaring at the height of the Iraq war, when US started to run low on small arms ammunition, causing the US government to buy British and Israeli ammunition during the initial stage of the war. At one point, the US had to dip into Vietnam and even Second World War-era ammo stockpiles of .50 calibre ammunition to feed the war effort. This was largely the result of incorrect assumptions about how effective US troops would be. Indeed, the Government Accountability Office estimated that it took 250,000 rounds to kill one insurgent.
 
At this point, Finland and Sweden don't need to join NATO. NATO has gone nearly broke in a pseudo-Article 5 situation with Ukraine, a non-NATO member. Ukraine I'm sure isn't held down by the NATO funding limits that irritated Trump so much with these other countries. Why should Finland and Sweden join and be required to maintain these fiscal demands when the Euros will likely give away their arms to them if a situation did come up between them and Russia?

Flash!!! Breaking news. NATO has gone broke.

You heard it here first from a Russian troll.
 
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IDK what you just said, but sounds good.

Coincidentally, google has been warning people all day almost all phones now have Italian spyware on them.
 
Oddly enough that isn’t Pootin’s or your choice Moe. It’s up to Finland and Sweden.

Remember your asshat hero even got the Swiss to not stay neutral and send relief funds to Ukraine. Pootin accomplished something even Hitler couldn’t do 😂

It's "fun" watching these guys decide what's best for the people of Ukraine and the other threatened countries. The audacity of thier arm chair quarterbacking is only surpassed by the cowardice of suggesting they roll over and let their country's sovereignty be summarily erased.

When I say fun, I mean astonishing. In a bad way.
 
russia, without nukes, is a two bit regional power with a weak outdated military and a kleptocrat in charge. Period. It’s unfortunate we have to take them seriously, but we must because they do have nukes and have a sociopath in charge. Period.

Most rational people, be they Republican or Democrat, know that is the case. It’s amazing that the troll allows his hatred of Biden and his fanboi love of Trump and putin to dominate his perspective on this.
 
russia, without nukes, is a two bit regional power with a weak outdated military and a kleptocrat in charge. Period. It’s unfortunate we have to take them seriously, but we must because they do have nukes and have a sociopath in charge. Period.

Most rational people, be they Republican or Democrat, know that is the case. It’s amazing that the troll allows his hatred of Biden and his fanboi love of Trump and putin to dominate his perspective on this.
Take away the nukes of the US right now and what would we be? We have a geriatric puppet and sociopathy leading us. We have no industrial/manufacturing base. All we have is a service economy. Our leaders are pushing a green agenda where they believe that windmills and solar is going to be the backbone of our grid. And we are a decadent, misinformed, superficial, corrupt group of people that is at each others throats.
 
Russia's response was to launch somewhere between 40-60 rockets at Ukraine from Belarus. The people of Belarus are a little more confident at fighting General ZOD than russians are at fighting Pootler. Their Democratic resistance movement is in touch with the EU, and gave thier blessings to Ukraine's entry. It seems the EU recognizes them more than that lukashenko pootler puppet.
 
Take away the nukes of the US right now and what would we be? We have a geriatric puppet and sociopathy leading us. We have no industrial/manufacturing base. All we have is a service economy. Our leaders are pushing a green agenda where they believe that windmills and solar is going to be the backbone of our grid. And we are a decadent, misinformed, superficial, corrupt group of people that is at each others throats.
Same good old USA. Who have we threatened with nuclear war outside of hurricanes?
 
Take away the nukes of the US right now and what would we be? We have a geriatric puppet and sociopathy leading us. We have no industrial/manufacturing base. All we have is a service economy. Our leaders are pushing a green agenda where they believe that windmills and solar is going to be the backbone of our grid. And we are a decadent, misinformed, superficial, corrupt group of people that is at each others throats.

We'd have the most powerful conventional military in the world, and it's not even that close.
 

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