War in Ukraine

[ButchPlz]

I'll let you think about that and give you an opportunity to retract that.


Whose needs? My needs? Main Street America's needs? Or some larger political and corporate needs?


Sadly, we have been conditioned to believe that our military is quite often engaged in unpopular activity. It has been normalized. That should be a concern to you.

If only people could see, firsthand, the absolute shitshow of where military budget goes... I think many of them wouldn't be warmongering so much.

The fact that we're woefully underprepared for conventional warfare and yet have saber-rattling for it at all levels of government (and apparently infecting normal people) is terrifying to me.

 

[landscapingvol]

do you really want me to collect two weeks worth of ******** against you again?

One of the craziest things I have ever read on this board

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

It shows how letting Moscow dominate those countries has hampered them. I’m glad Western Europe didn’t suffer.

Communism dominated those countries. No one that suffered during the 1990s and has an IQ above 70 wants a return of communism in Russia.

 

[Pepe_Silvia]

One of the craziest things I have ever read on this board

That's not even the craziest thing he's said in the last 24 hours.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

No retraction. We should never give an adversary any idea that we are willing to restrain ourselves. None of their business and if they need it to feel better, too effing bad.

Interesting. So the Founding documents of this country established that Congress had the power to declare war. Perhaps to avoid what we have been going through over the last 70 years with or military going all over the place and being at the mercy and whims of the POTUS. But you, however, feel that you are wiser than the Founders and want the military to be able to go anywhere the POTUS damn well pleases.

 

[tvolsfan]

Communism dominated those countries. No one that suffered during the 1990s and has an IQ above 70 wants a return of communism in Russia.

Gee, wonder why

 

[tvolsfan]

I don't think you had a point. Clearly we weren't going to fight the Soviet Union to free the territory they had occupied during WW2.

Why should we now challenge Russia if they decide to retake Ukraine? It is just a poor country afterall.

Eastern Europe is poor because they were dominated by Russia. Some countries have made significant progress since the fall of the Soviet Union and I’m glad they have opportunities to join NATO/EU to prevent the dictator in Moscow from undoing that. Ukraine is clearly trying to move in that direction, but apparently we shouldn’t support that if it hurts Putin’s feelings.

 

[ETV]

It's very sad to me that our government does not realize the fortuity of the current timing. The world is distracted by Russia and the Ukraine. Canada is struggling with the truckers blockading Ottawa. NOW is the perfect opportunity for us to invade. They'll never see it coming. We should be able to conquer Canada fairly quickly.

The first artic blast that far north will have us in full retreat back across the border. Let's postpone the invasion until the summer solstice.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Gee, wonder why

Because they were communists... not because they were Russian.

 

[tvolsfan]

Because they were communists... not because they were Russian.

Right, I’m sure it’s random chance that all the countries Moscow controlled set up communist governments.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Eastern Europe is poor because they were dominated by Russia. Some countries have made significant progress since the fall of the Soviet Union and I’m glad they have opportunities to join NATO/EU to prevent the dictator in Moscow from undoing that. Ukraine is clearly trying to move in that direction, but apparently we shouldn’t support that if it hurts Putin’s feelings.

Again, you cannot make the simple distinction between a political philosophy and an ethnic group. Your issue is with communists, not Russians. Just like your issue should be with Nazis and not Germans.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Right, I’m sure it’s random chance that all the countries Moscow controlled set up communist governments.

No, I would say that was part of their plan.

 

[tvolsfan]

Again, you cannot make the simple distinction between a political philosophy and an ethnic group. Your issue is with communists, not Russians. Just like your issue should be with Nazis and not Germans.

I didn’t specify the Russian people, I said Russia. Moscow dominated the eastern bloc, and they were all worse for it.

 

[Pepe_Silvia]

Eastern Europe is poor because they were dominated by Russia. Some countries have made significant progress since the fall of the Soviet Union and I’m glad they have opportunities to join NATO/EU to prevent the dictator in Moscow from undoing that. Ukraine is clearly trying to move in that direction, but apparently we shouldn’t support that if it hurts Putin’s feelings.

Eastern Europe was prosperous and wealthy before WW2?

That's new to me.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I didn’t specify the Russian people, I said Russia. Moscow dominated the eastern bloc, and they were all worse for it.

Yeah, and you don't make the distinction between the communists that ran the USSR and the Russian leadership of today. I hate to break it to you, but Putin and the leadership in Moscow right now are not communists.

 

[DuckInAPen]

The Untold Story of the Ukraine Crisis

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The Untold Story of the Ukraine Crisis

Sound familiar?

Last February, days after the Inauguration of President Joe Biden, America’s allies in Kyiv decided to get tough on Medvedchuk. The Ukrainian government started by taking his TV channels off the air, depriving Russia of its propaganda outlets in the country. The U.S. embassy in Kyiv applauded the move. About two weeks later, on Feb. 19, 2021, Ukraine announced that it had seized the assets of Medvedchuk’s family. Among the most important, it said, was a pipeline that brings Russian oil to Europe, enriching Medvedchuk and his family—including Putin’s goddaughter, Daria—and helping to bankroll Medvedchuk’s political party.

 

[DuckInAPen]

They are probably much better than many of our “allies”.

Better in what respect?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I'm no fan of these vaccines, but an interesting story.

When Russia released its own vaccine in August 2020, Medvedchuk, his wife, and their daughter Daria were among the first to get it. They then flew to Moscow to talk to Putin. It was the first public meeting the Russian leader had with anyone—unmasked, on camera, and without social distancing—since the pandemic began. Their talks that day resulted in a deal for Russia to supply Ukraine with millions of doses of its vaccine, and to allow Ukrainian labs to produce it free of charge.

When Medvedchuk brought the offer to Kyiv, the government rejected it. So did the U.S. State Department, which accused Russia of using its vaccine as a tool of political influence. But as the death toll mounted in Ukraine—and no vaccine shipments arrived from the West—voters turned away from Zelensky in droves.

 

[0nelilreb]

Had FDR listened to the America First boneheads on this site, we'd all be speaking German.

If Japan had of minded it’s own business and left us alone they wouldn’t have had two atomic bombs dropped on them . See how that works ? Countries should be very careful about deciding who should and shouldn’t be messed with .

 

[DuckInAPen]

Our military should never have limitations put on their use.

Of course there should be limitations on how we use our military (some or those limitations are delineated in the Constitution, however much we may ignore them).

It is to be used anytime it is needed to fulfill our needs

Defending the sovereignty and the territorial integrity of Ukraine, a country with which we are not allied and in which we have no vital interest, is not one of our needs.

People don’t need to volunteer for a military expecting it will only be used when it is popular.

They should be able to volunteer with confidence that they will be deployed only to defend America, her just and vital interests, and her treaty allies.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The Untold Story of the Ukraine Crisis

Sound familiar?

The party leader was furious. “This is political repression,” Medvedchuk told me. “All my bank accounts are frozen. I can’t manage my assets. I can’t even pay my utility bills.”

On the flight back that day, we talked about Medvedchuk and his TV networks, and whether it seemed wise in hindsight to shut them down. Zelensky made no apologies. “I consider them devils,” the President told me. “Their narratives seek to disarm Ukraine of its statehood.” As the Kyiv skyline appeared through the window and the plane began to descend, Zelensky grew upset. “Al Capone killed a lot of people, but he got locked up over his taxes,” he told me. “I think these TV channels killed a lot of people through the information war.”

 

[DuckInAPen]

Yes, the poorer, less democratically stable part of Europe. Clearly we should have given them the west as well. You know, because “none of our business.”

It wasn't our business to defend our treaty allies with whose help we had just defeated an enemy that had declared war on us? Our interests and obligations viz-a-viz Ukraine are very different.

 

[MontyPython]

Defending the sovereignty and the territorial integrity of Ukraine, a country with which we are not allied and in which we have no vital interest, is not one of our needs.

They should be able to volunteer with confidence that they will be deployed only to defend America, her just and vital interests, and her treaty allies.

Curious. Were the three biggest, longest and most expensive (lives and money) wars for the US in the past 60 years (Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq) part of defending America and our interests and allies?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Curious. Were the three biggest, longest and most expensive (lives and money) wars for the US in the past 60 years (Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq) part of defending America and our interests and allies?

No