War in Ukraine

#39,353
#39,353
volgr said:
Riiight, the Western Death Cult wants an important Nuclear Power Plant back so they make wild accusations. Par for the course.
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We were talking about military taking up positions in civilian areas. Don’t want to talk about that anymore I guess Larry
 
#39,357
#39,357
DonjoVol said:
It seems like the keep gaining territory closer and closer to Odessa. I asked these guys awhile back what they would do if/when Russia gains enough territory to cut off Ukraine completely from the Black Sea. If it happens I wonder what their excuse will be then.
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The only military being cutoff near Kherson / Odessa are your homie Russians, Curly. How’s the occupation of Snake Island going? Oh that’s right they retreated.

Ukraine HIMARS strike Russian bases during major counter-attack
 
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#39,359
#39,359
volgr said:
Until you can come up with a rational explanation as to WHY the trajectory of this war is going to change, why make your statement at all? It is pure copium. I said months ago that Ukraine was taking HEAVY losses to their best fighting forces and they were being replaced with less than adequate forces while Russian forces were being replaced with adequate forces and Russian forces were being rotated. Just fast forward that and what does the battlefield look like in 6 more months? When you then factor in that Russia still hasn't declared war and still hasn't mobilized, so that have that in their backpocket if need be...I just don't see any path toward optimism for Ukraine unless NATO Country troops join the fight. Even then I don't know how much good it would do as Russia would then likely mobilize and
go into a full fledged mode of war.
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What changes if Russia goes to war officially?

Russia has already opened up the enlistment age. Hardly sounds like they have ample replacements. We have video evidence of t-62 in use by the Russians. Doubt they dusted those off because while they had plenty of t-80s in reserve. The VDV went from an airborne unit getting dropped behind enemy lines to support troops. How is the Moskva 2 coming?

Both sides are taking losses. Both sides cant 100% replace those losses like for like. I have no idea which side can sustain it better, but I bet both sides are lying. I am not willing to accept one propaganda over the other because they are BOTH propaganda, and both worth the same amount of trust. Truth has ALWAYS been the first casualty of war. It's why predictions are useless. It's easier to sustain/accept losses as the defender. You have more to lose, and usually a more willing population.

As far as what could change that would effect the war, anything. Political unrest at home is always an issue in wartime. Remember russia was arresting protestors early on. Probably still going on. All the fires behind the lines dont speak to a happy home front. Putin actually gets sick. Ukraine cuts that bridge to/from Crimea. Putin has another conflict pop up.

Even without an outside change, militaries wear down. Troops get war weary. Someone loses an important leader/general. Some stockpile runs out. Heck you lose one battle, take a few too many casualties in one place, and that's a momentum shift. Even losses can be strategic wins if you inflict more losses than the enemy can sustain. Heck season changes have been known to change the direction of conflict on the steppes a time or two.

Again just because you are winning doesnt mean you will always be winning. And what winning looks like can change.
 
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#39,361
#39,361
LouderVol said:
What changes if Russia goes to war officially?

Russia has already opened up the enlistment age. Hardly sounds like they have ample replacements. We have video evidence of t-62 in use by the Russians. Doubt they dusted those off because while they had plenty of t-80s in reserve. The VDV went from an airborne unit getting dropped behind enemy lines to support troops. How is the Moskva 2 coming?

Both sides are taking losses. Both sides cant 100% replace those losses like for like. I have no idea which side can sustain it better, but I bet both sides are lying. I am not willing to accept one propaganda over the other because they are BOTH propaganda, and both worth the same amount of trust. Truth has ALWAYS been the first casualty of war. It's why predictions are useless. It's easier to sustain/accept losses as the defender. You have more to lose, and usually a more willing population.

As far as what could change that would effect the war, anything. Political unrest at home is always an issue in wartime. Remember russia was arresting protestors early on. Probably still going on. All the fires behind the lines dont speak to a happy home front. Putin actually gets sick. Ukraine cuts that bridge to/from Crimea. Putin has another conflict pop up.

Even without an outside change, militaries wear down. Troops get war weary. Someone loses an important leader/general. Some stockpile runs out. Heck you lose one battle, take a few too many casualties in one place, and that's a momentum shift. Even losses can be strategic wins if you inflict more losses than the enemy can sustain. Heck season changes have been known to change the direction of conflict on the steppes a time or two.

Again just because you are winning doesnt mean you will always be winning. And what winning looks like can change.
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All good points. I think the longer this drags out the more the outcome favors Ukraine. They are receiving external resupply after all. Russia is on an island for resupply. They must resupply themselves and contrary to the “this is fine” narrative from our rezident propagandists they have neither the raw materials or production capacity to do so. Thus rolling out the T-62s as you pointed out.

The western countries supplying Ukraine will eventually face unrest and lack of interest at home related to a continual financial drain in the current economic environment. But right now it’s fairly clear the arms will keep flowing.
 
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#39,362
#39,362
volgr said:
If Ukraine hadn't committed atrocities in the Donbas, Russia wouldn't have invaded. This is fun. You want to keep going, troll?
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If the russians werent committing atrocities in the Donbas Ukraine wouldnt have needed to return fire. Or do you really buy the bs that the rebels just happened to find a bunch of modern Russian equipment abandoned in the mines before the russians actually arrived.

Ukraine shelled the russians. Russians shelled the Ukrainians. Yet somehow you believe only one side is guilty. No consistency.
 
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#39,363
#39,363
Hunerwadel said:
An army putting civilians in harms way is not the same thing as intentionally targeting them. What's wrong with you?
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And I really dont know what he expects. For ukraine to NOT defend their cities? I mean I know that's what the Russians want. But one would think with how easily the Russians are winning they wouldnt need to hit Ukraines troops hiding in the cities. If they actually cared about the civilians there are a number of ways to neutralize the troops without endangering the civilians.

The russians dont have to go after the populated areas at all. The Russians are the aggressors, they decide the battlefield. The Ukrainians have to defend the cities because that is where the Russians are hitting.
 
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#39,364
#39,364
NorthDallas40 said:
All good points. I think the longer this drags out the more the outcome favors Ukraine. They are receiving external resupply after all. Russia is on an island for resupply. They must resupply themselves and contrary to the “this is fine” narrative from our rezident propagandists they have neither the raw materials or production capacity to do so. Thus rolling out the T-62s as you pointed out.

The western countries supplying Ukraine will eventually face unrest and lack of interest at home related to a continual financial drain in the current economic environment. But right now it’s fairly clear the arms will keep flowing.
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I would agree. Typically you want an invasion to go quickly, not slowly. Also typically you have clear definable objectives you push towards before you regroup.

Even if you accept/believe the Russians are winning them having to redeploy troops around the theatre speaks to the war not 100% going in their favor.
 
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#39,366
#39,366
#39,369
#39,369
Hunerwadel said:
An army putting civilians in harms way is not the same thing as intentionally targeting them. What's wrong with you?
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So you're okay with the Ukraine Military staging their forces in civilian occupied areas? Not only is Ukraine putting their own civilians in harms way but they are still targeting civilians in the Donbass.
 
#39,374
#39,374
volgr said:
If Ukraine hadn't committed atrocities in the Donbas, Russia wouldn't have invaded. This is fun. You want to keep going, troll?
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You really know how to get the Ukrainian trolls and bots riled up lol. We told them for months the Ukrainian military was staging their forces in civilian areas. They dismissed it. Now it's being reported by Amnesty, which I'm sure is a preferred outlet of theirs, and suddenly its no big deal lol.

This Ukrainian troll factory is hilarious. I'll give them that much.
 
#39,375
#39,375
DonjoVol said:
So you're okay with the Ukraine Military staging their forces in civilian occupied areas? Not only is Ukraine putting their own civilians in harms way but they are still targeting civilians in the Donbass.
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This statement is pure lunacy. When you are defending your country you send your troops where they need to go, the civilians can either pick up a gun and fight or they leave. What would you have them do? Leave towns and cities open for Russian troops to occupy unopposed?
 
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