War in Ukraine

#65,802
#65,802
VolStrom said:
So was this not Lindsey Graham saying this?
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It was him, but there was apparently some "cut and paste" to put two statements together that didn't happen sequentially. Notice the change in camera angle. If he made the two statements sequentially they would have been played back from one camera angle.
 
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#65,805
#65,805
MontyPython said:
They do own Smithfield Farms now though. Take my bacon and it's war!
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Still really hard to believe that any American or any American business would sell land, business, or property to the Chinese. Apparently that's a reflection of how low our self esteem has sunk and how greed can trump any sense of morality. Can any country continue to exist when it loses a sense of nationalism and self preservation?
 
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#65,806
#65,806
Wait, people are actually arguing over what Lindsay Graham said? That implies anyone cares. And it implies he said it and didn't change it 30 seconds later.

Neither of which is true.
 
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#65,807
#65,807
scooty_vol said:
I wonder how long russians will wait until they start protesting and trying ro revolt. Of course Russian people are much more tough than Americans are when it comes to suffering. Of course we'll never know the whole truth.
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The Russians are not suffering right now. The Ukrainians and EU are the ones suffering and in the EU, they are the ones that have been on the streets far, far more than Russia.
 
#65,811
#65,811
AM64 said:
Still really hard to believe that any American or any American business would sell land, business, or property to the Chinese. Apparently that's a reflection of how low our self esteem has sunk and how greed can trump any sense of morality. Can any country continue to exist when it loses a sense of nationalism and self preservation?
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And again, this hits at the very point I have been trying to make to you people. Your enemies are not overseas. Your worst enemies are right here at home. The Chinese would not be able to have as much influence as they do if it were not for the traitors and sellouts right here at home. We outsourced our industrial and manufacturing capacity overseas to China at the expense of our own national security. And you in particular, have justified this shift in the name of screwing over workers here in America because they had the audacity to want, or maintain, their wages and standard of living. If you were intellectually honest and looking in the rear view mirror, we would have been far better off paying higher wages and keeping our domestic production vs outsourcing and having our pants hanging down dependent on China.

You Boomers hate American labor more than you hate the Chinese... or hate the traitors that outsourced our economy.
 
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#65,812
#65,812
Rasputin_Vol said:
I think in Graham's defense (and I'm no Graham fan btw), I think he is a victim of Ukrainians editing the footage. But having said that, he's been on record saying far worse on other occasions.
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Thanks for making clear you're not a Graham fan. Otherwise, I would have thought your Putin leg-humping was perfectly compatible with being a Graham fanboy.
 
#65,813
#65,813
Also, let me say this @AM64... I shared your same attitude. Check my post history over 10 years ago. I was especially critical of organized labor and the mistakes they made (in particular, my aim was directed at the AFL-CIO). But as I have gotten older and gotten more info and more life experiences, I find myself not tied down to an ideology and more concerned about the truth. And the undeniable truth is that labor costs in America are A factor, bit nowhere near a MAJOR factor with our problem in America because productivity has increased along with upper management compensation. I know... I know... that is Red Commie talk. I get it. I never would have said this a decade ago. But it is undeniably clear (especially post-Trump) that both parties hate/have disdain for average Americans. And the Boomers like you are in full support of this archaic, rapacious economic policy and have no idea why we do not have the same production capacity militarily of a "gas station masquerading as a country" or a country like China that was mostly agrial 50 years ago.

We've destroyed the America that would have given people today the American dream based in pizz pour economic, fiscal and foreign policy.
 
#65,815
#65,815
Rasputin_Vol said:
And again, this hits at the very point I have been trying to make to you people. Your enemies are not overseas. Your worst enemies are right here at home. The Chinese would not be able to have as much influence as they do if it were not for the traitors and sellouts right here at home. We outsourced our industrial and manufacturing capacity overseas to China at the expense of our own national security. And you in particular, have justified this shift in the name of screwing over workers here in America because they had the audacity to want, or maintain, their wages and standard of living. If you were intellectually honest and looking in the rear view mirror, we would have been far better off paying higher wages and keeping our domestic production vs outsourcing and having our pants hanging down dependent on China.

You Boomers hate American labor more than you hate the Chinese... or hate the traitors that outsourced our economy.
Click to expand...

We agree largely on the effect, but almost not at all about the cause. No, I don't hate American labor - we should be using it. What I hate is lack of common sense and believing you can get something for nothing - that you can demand to be paid more for the same job without impacting product cost - can't happen. The labor cost/product cost spiral is the dog chasing it's tail - makes no damn sense. People think they should have everything and aren't willing to live within their means, and that's not generational.

The other nonsensical thing is that you apparently hate boomers as fervently as you hate the US.
 
#65,816
#65,816
AM64 said:
We agree largely on the effect, but almost not at all about the cause. No, I don't hate American labor - we should be using it. What I hate is lack of common sense and believing you can get something for nothing - that you can demand to be paid more for the same job without impacting product cost - can't happen. The labor cost/product cost spiral is the dog chasing it's tail - makes no damn sense. People think they should have everything and aren't willing to live within their means, and that's not generational.

The other nonsensical thing is that you apparently hate boomers as fervently as you hate the US.
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Again, check my post history. I don't shy away from the fact that I had the same philosophy about labor (again, mostly then and mostly now about AFL-CIO) then as I do now.

Bit in retrospect, with more info, I should be expected to change my opinion. I'm willing to acknowledge the errors in my thinking and re-evaluate without being locked into a particular ideology. You Boomers, on the other hand, still hold on to these Cold War/Trickle-down econ philosophies that had their flaws exposed in the last 3-7 years... Hell, really going back to 2008. If you can't acknowledge that the situation in America is different and we are now on the wrong path, that is where the problem comes in.
 
#65,817
#65,817
Rasputin_Vol said:
Again, check my post history. I don't shy away from the fact that I had the same philosophy about labor (again, mostly then and mostly now about AFL-CIO) then as I do now.

Bit in retrospect, with more info, I should be expected to change my opinion. I'm willing to acknowledge the errors in my thinking and re-evaluate without being locked into a particular ideology. You Boomers, on the other hand, still hold on to these Cold War/Trickle-down econ philosophies that had their flaws exposed in the last 3-7 years... Hell, really going back to 2008. If you can't acknowledge that the situation in America is different and we are now on the wrong path, that is where the problem comes in.
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I never did buy the trickle down economy any more than I buy absurd management salaries and "profits" dumped on stockholders ... with some of the biggest being the very people running companies (corporate level execs and directors). It smacks of the "little people" - the people who actually make a company work getting scraps off the table where the elite are fed. That doesn't mean I think jobs are all equal in value either. The big fallacy in the trickle down thought is the extreme importance of CEOs who are in reality just hired managers, and plenty of them screw the pooch. These aren't actually the guys like Henry Ford who dreamed, started, and built companies; rather we are generally talking the spoiled brats who screw up what someone else built. The guys who want short term plunder and will sell the company down the road to get it - not the guys who build the future.

After having said that, it would still be absurd to pay someone simply putting widget A in hole B the same as the guy who designed the product in the first place or another guy who is making sure the widgets are available to be placed in hole B when that part comes down a conveyer. And, yeah, I do know a lot of that has been replaced by robots, but some of us have actually done those kind of factory jobs while working our way up. I drilled a lot of oil holes in motor brackets and cleaned machined parts to help pay for an engineering education. You know in those days, pay might have been $2/hour and a new car less than $2000; all we've done is escalate both wages and costs and priced US labor out of competition. Dog chasing tail and distracted dog getting mowed down by a truck.
 
#65,818
#65,818
Rasputin_Vol said:
The Russians are not suffering right now. The Ukrainians and EU are the ones suffering and in the EU, they are the ones that have been on the streets far, far more than Russia.
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Russians complaining in the streets get thrown in a van and aren't heard from again.
 
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#65,820
#65,820
AM64 said:
After having said that, it would still be absurd to pay someone simply putting widget A in hole B the same as the guy who designed the product in the first place or another guy who is making sure the widgets are available to be placed in hole B when that part comes down a conveyer.
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No "reasonable person" had ever made that statement as far as I am aware.
 
#65,821
#65,821
Storm Shadows really pack a punch. Appears most if not all have been able to breach Russian AA.

Guessing shaping operations will continue until the next new moon around June 19th.







 
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