War in Ukraine

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#78,656
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#78,657
LouderVol said:
what's the difference in aggression in attacking vs defending in your mind? is one less violent than the other? Are we not going to be there to kill? Blow stuff up? can you guarantee that if we push every last Russian out of 2013 Ukraine that the war ends? or that our participation ends there? its still war, people are dying because of our actions, that is usually considered aggression.

and considering we are entering someone else's war its an act of aggression.

and this is all after there were early promises and pledges that we would never even consider going to war to aide Ukraine, and now you are here pushing for that war. Its war, its escalation, and its aggression.
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Equivocate much? This seems a bit Orwellian.
 
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#78,658
LSU-SIU said:
The United States is a Republic. So what? Syria has elections, so what? Democracy to me just means mob rule. The United States didn't stop recognizing the King back in the day because it wasn't "democratic", they did it because the redcoats were corrupt.

If you want to scare the crap out of me, all we need is for the United States to be a Democracy.

What exactly is the United States in Syria, please do tell? Basically, this is your way of saying you're evil without saying you're evil.
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This is kind of a false distinction between democracies and republics at least as the terms are now used. Can you quote me from Aristotle what exactly you're talking about?
 
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#78,659
MontyPython said:
Full on retard.

If some rando dude walked up and punched your wife in the face, you'd just turn around, walk away and leave her be.

In the South, we call that "being a pussy".
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as I have said multiple times, if we have a formal agreement, it wouldn't be an aggressive action. we aren't married to Ukraine, we aren't dating Ukraine. We aren't even friends with Ukraine. We barely know their name, half of us probably referred to them the wrong way "The Ukraine", and until they ended up on the news most of us didn't even know where they lived. Meanwhile the rest of Europe really needs to step up their game.

Under your logic you must really be a pussy because I bet there is plenty of domestic violence you aren't defending in your own town. come on big man, step up and start punching some dudes, show us how its done.
 
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#78,660
#78,660
jvol1 said:
Equivocate much? This seems a bit Orwellian.
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I am not the one equivocating. you are the one trying to hide that war requires acts of aggression. you are trying to double speak about how the war between Russia and Ukraine is an attack on the US to justify our involvement. you are the one being very Ministry of Peace trying to get us involved in a war that isn't our business.

we already have an alliance in place that protects our strategic interests in the area. Its NATO. Ukraine is not in NATO. Putin won't do anything to NATO, as I pointed out earlier, look at Finland adding 800+ miles of NATO border. This is after sharing several hundred miles of land border with NATO already, plus all of his sea access being NATO controlled. Putin couldn't do crap then, he won't be able to do crap later. Putin winning a war against Ukraine won't do anything to change that.
 
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#78,661
jvol1 said:
This is kind of a false distinction between democracies and republics at least as the terms are now used. Can you quote me from Aristotle what exactly you're talking about?
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more double speak. having to change the definition of words to fit your argument.

there is still a very bid distinction between the two. A true democracy and the people vote on all matters of the government, not just its leaders under a set of laws (constitution).
 
#78,664
#78,664
TVOLS said:
It's not looking good around Kharkiv right now based on reports.
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I don't think its looked good anywhere on the border recently. But at some point there has to be a break thru. otherwise there is no point, they aren't gaining anything. LSU-SIU can go on about attritional warfare all he wants, but that cuts both ways.

I think Ukraine is near (relative statement) collapse, but its looking like Russia may not be strong enough to take advantage. I keep saying Winter War. People need to go look at what was going on there, and how Finland was doing when they forced a white peace.
 
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LouderVol said:
I don't think its looked good anywhere on the border recently. But at some point there has to be a break thru. otherwise there is no point, they aren't gaining anything. LSU-SIU can go on about attritional warfare all he wants, but that cuts both ways.

I think Ukraine is near (relative statement) collapse, but its looking like Russia may not be strong enough to take advantage. I keep saying Winter War. People need to go look at what was going on there, and how Finland was doing when they forced a white peace.
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Another great analogy would be the Maryland-Virginia front of the Civil War. The Confederates kept winning early on but there was no chance they could ever take DC or seriously threaten the North. The Union was able to fight the war of attrition and eventually win.
 
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#78,667
LouderVol said:
as I have said multiple times, if we have a formal agreement, it wouldn't be an aggressive action. we aren't married to Ukraine, we aren't dating Ukraine. We aren't even friends with Ukraine. We barely know their name, half of us probably referred to them the wrong way "The Ukraine", and until they ended up on the news most of us didn't even know where they lived. Meanwhile the rest of Europe really needs to step up their game.

Under your logic you must really be a pussy because I bet there is plenty of domestic violence you aren't defending in your own town. come on big man, step up and start punching some dudes, show us how its done.
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Your pedestrian view of our written agreements with others is telling.

Read up on the Budapest Agreement. We agreed to guarantee the security of Ukraine.

Not a wife like a NATO country, but definitely a girlfriend. Probably why you don't understand.
 
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MontyPython said:
Your pedestrian view of our written agreements with others is telling.

Read up on the Budapest Agreement. We agreed to guarantee the security of Ukraine.

Not a wife like a NATO country, but definitely a girlfriend. Probably why you don't understand.
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You need to read up on the Budapest Memorandum, nowhere does it say guarantee. It gives security assurances.

It is you that either can't tell the truth or don't understand the English language.
 
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#78,669
jvol1 said:
This is kind of a false distinction between democracies and republics at least as the terms are now used. Can you quote me from Aristotle what exactly you're talking about?
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The U.S. Constitution was founded on the principle of a Republic hence Clause IV, democracy is not even mentioned. I would say most would say its a Republic with democratic principles as far as elections ie representatives of the Republic. A pure Democracy imo is mob rule. You don't see them mentioning Democracy in any way in the Declaration of Independence and for good reason i.e. the founders believed the One > Many in many instance as far as life and liberty.

The vast majority of countries have elections, very few if any actually have pure form of Democracy if any. A pure democracy is just mob rule. Without specifics its hard to gauge if people are actually serious on this subject.

“A republic, if you can keep it.” --Benjamin Franklin's response to Elizabeth Willing Powel's question: "Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?"
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#78,671
hog88 said:
You need to read up on the Budapest Memorandum, nowhere does it say guarantee. It gives security assurances.

It is you that either can't tell the truth or don't understand the English language.
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Gramps get your glasses. That's precisely what I said.

Wife v. girlfriend.

Either way, y'all pussies let her get punched in the face and just walk away.
 
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#78,673
MontyPython said:
Gramps get your glasses. That's precisely what I said.

Wife v. girlfriend.

Either way, y'all pussies let her get punched in the face and just walk away.
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What cologne do you use to mask your natural tuna smell?
 
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#78,675
#78,675
MontyPython said:
Gramps get your glasses. That's precisely what I said.

Wife v. girlfriend.

Either way, y'all pussies let her get punched in the face and just walk away.
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hog88 said:
You need to read up on the Budapest Memorandum, nowhere does it say guarantee. It gives security assurances.

It is you that either can't tell the truth or don't understand the English language.
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MontyPython said:
Your pedestrian view of our written agreements with others is telling.

Read up on the Budapest Agreement. We agreed to guarantee the security of Ukraine.

Not a wife like a NATO country, but definitely a girlfriend. Probably why you don't understand.
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you need to go back and read precisely what you said. you said guarantee the security of Ukraine. Hog was right, no where does the Budapest Memorandum say that we guarantee their security.

We didn't promise anything, we were never dating, in fact we turned her down. and didn't stand up for her when our buddies, the rest of NATO, also turned her down. and at this point you want us to take actions that would directly endanger our "wives" just so we can go try to stand up for this girl we never even dated. so if you are going to go get in a fight that is dragging your wife into it as well I think you are the one who needs to reconsider your priorities. Me thinks the lady doth protest too much when trying to prove her manhood here.
 
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