War in Ukraine

#2,429
#2,429
allvol123 said:
You are a dumbass here. You literally referred to Pearl Harbor with……”attacked”.

Sure, that doesn’t give you a pass to drop bombs on people.
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If a country tried to, and was actually pretty successful at embargoing us, would you consider that an act of war? Like ships not able to get to our coast bc they are being turned away by foreign war ships. How do you think we handle that?

And to be clear I am not saying the embargo was wrong. But there is a myth that exists that we were attacked unprovoked
 
#2,430
#2,430
allvol123 said:
You are a dumbass here. You literally referred to Pearl Harbor with……”attacked”.

Sure, that doesn’t give you a pass to drop bombs on people.
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Yes, I put "attacked" in quotes because I knew you all would be a dog whistle you couldn't ignore. Japan really "retaliated" or "responded" to our actions.
 
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#2,432
#2,432
Rasputin_Vol said:
Yes, I put "attacked" in quotes because I knew you all would be a dog whistle you couldn't ignore. Japan really "retaliated" or "responded" to our actions.
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But you ignore what Japan did to get those sanctions. And they would have to be morons to not expect retaliation by us for screwing with our Allie. Just like we would be idiots for not anticipating some sort of response from them. They escalated and got their ass handed to them at the end of the day. And before you start, I have zero interest in a convo from you about regional crap. It's useless
 
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#2,433
#2,433
Rasputin_Vol said:
So the US and UK didn't engage in an energy embargo of Japan?
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You realize the U.S. and U.K. were never obligated to supply energy to Japan, right? Nothing justifies Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor and attempting to do so is some really lame **** on your part.
 
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#2,434
#2,434
Weezer said:
You realize the U.S. and U.K. were never obligated to supply energy to Japan, right? Nothing justifies Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor and attempting to do so is some really lame **** on your part.
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Obligation and preventing aren't the same thing
 
#2,435
#2,435
Damn boys get your hip waders out if you’re gonna wander in this thread today. Whole bunch of water that has been carried around appears to have spilled all over the place.
 
#2,436
#2,436
Weezer said:
You realize the U.S. and U.K. were never obligated to supply energy to Japan, right? Nothing justifies Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor and attempting to do so is some really lame **** on your part.
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WOW... now this is rich. And Russia is not obligated to supply energy to Ukraine, either. Ye that is one of the concerns the Ukrainians have with Nordstream 2. They're worried about loosing out on skimming from the Russian pipelines running through their country once they become obsolete.
 
#2,437
#2,437
Weezer said:
You realize the U.S. and U.K. were never obligated to supply energy to Japan, right? Nothing justifies Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor and attempting to do so is some really lame **** on your part.
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LOL... the Arabs were not obligated to sell Israel oil for the first few decades of Israeli State existence, yet the Israelis used that as a motivating factor for war in 1967 and 1973.

Do you really want to go down this path?
 
#2,438
#2,438
US Expert Warns France And Germany Will "Throw The Americans Under The Bus" | ZeroHedge

However, the reality is that Germany, Europe’s most important country alongside France, has its own economic interests that must be served and not compromised for the sake of the US. Berlin has defended its ability to complete the pipeline, despite the fact that the US opposes the project in any way possible. Washington has no interest in the fact that the Nord Stream 2 pipeline is vital for the German economy and industry.
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#2,439
#2,439
Rasputin_Vol said:
US Expert Warns France And Germany Will "Throw The Americans Under The Bus" | ZeroHedge
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“Paris, like Berlin, fears the prospects of their own countries becoming frontline states yet again in either a renewed Cold War between Russia and the US or, more frighteningly, an actual war,” he added.
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In this way, Macron, despite some differences with Putin, has an immense respect for the Russian leader. Macron, just like his German colleague Scholz, is a realist and understands that discounting Moscow’s interests and concerns is not a realistic prospect if order, stability and peace is to be maintained in Europe, something that the Anglo Alliance (US and UK) are not interested in as they would not be directly affected by a potential continental war.
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#2,441
#2,441
volfanhill said:
If a country tried to, and was actually pretty successful at embargoing us, would you consider that an act of war? Like ships not able to get to our coast bc they are being turned away by foreign war ships. How do you think we handle that?

And to be clear I am not saying the embargo was wrong. But there is a myth that exists that we were attacked unprovoked
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We would probably attack the ships interfering in our waterways.
 
#2,443
#2,443
volbound1700 said:
We intervened in half of those conflicts (Black Hawk Down and Somalia ring a bell?). At some point, war is inevitable and people just don't understand that.

I would love to see some of you guys trying to survive in Ancient Rome or Sparta.
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We did not intervene in Somalia to any real degree. We attempted to perform an operation to oust the militant leader who was responsible for a lot of attacks and it went poorly. I don't think what happened in Mogadishu supports the position that we should intervene in Ukraine by any stretch of the imagination. It was a disaster for the US military. What in God's name does Sparta have to do with the interventionist stance?
 
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#2,444
#2,444
Weezer said:
You realize the U.S. and U.K. were never obligated to supply energy to Japan, right? Nothing justifies Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor and attempting to do so is some really lame **** on your part.
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There's ample evident FDR knew his actions were pushing Japan's buttons and would result in some sort of attack against us.
 
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#2,445
#2,445
This hasn’t been mentioned and it seems like this thread has gone pretty far off course, but Pearl Harbor happened in large part because of the Spanish American War 50 or so years earlier and our taking control of the Philippines. We were one of the few major western powers with any large pacific interest not already knee deep in war. Japan had wide scale pacific intentions and we were in their way. Not defending their attack at all but it didn’t happen in a bubble.
 
#2,446
#2,446
landscapingvol said:
We did not intervene in Somalia to any real degree. We attempted to perform an operation to oust the militant leader who was responsible for a lot of attacks and it went poorly. I don't think what happened in Mogadishu supports the position that we should intervene in Ukraine by any stretch of the imagination. It was a disaster for the US military. What in God's name does Sparta have to do with the interventionist stance?
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That was a headscratcher for me also.
 
#2,447
#2,447
Rasputin_Vol said:
That was a headscratcher for me also.
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Everyone who disagrees with their interventionist strategy should have their children thrown out into the wilderness to die. One would think that we would have learned our lessons from Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and several other smaller military incursions over the last 50 years. I guess not. A long drawn out war in Ukraine would do wonders for our economy, not to mention the thousands of young men and women who would be killed or wounded while other capable powers in Europe sit on the sidelines arguing over government pensions. I am sure Australia would join us they seem to love a good war and the British might send a carrier or two as well. No doubt the Germans, French, and Italians would be far too busy but that's ok we can continue to be the World's police force.
 
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#2,448
#2,448
Madscientistvol said:
This hasn’t been mentioned and it seems like this thread has gone pretty far off course, but Pearl Harbor happened in large part because of the Spanish American War 50 or so years earlier and our taking control of the Philippines. We were one of the few major western powers with any large pacific interest not already knee deep in war. Japan had wide scale pacific intentions and we were in their way. Not defending their attack at all but it didn’t happen in a bubble.
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Japan was also smart enough to realize that they wanted to avoid any type of engagement with the United States at the time. That was until they got pushed into a corner with the embargoes.

And you mention going back to the turn of the century dynamics, but the US and Japan were allied together going back to the Boxer Rebellion and even WWI. Japan had already been concerned about Russian influence in the region when they fought the Russo-Japanese War, but you are on to something when you mention possible concerns about American influence in the region, as well. I just don't think that at that time, they really wanted to engage in a conflict until they got put into a corner.
 
#2,449
#2,449
Rasputin_Vol said:
Japan was also smart enough to realize that they wanted to avoid any type of engagement with the United States at the time. That was until they got pushed into a corner with the embargoes.

And you mention going back to the turn of the century dynamics, but the US and Japan were allied together going back to the Boxer Rebellion and even WWI. Japan had already been concerned about Russian influence in the region when they fought the Russo-Japanese War, but you are on to something when you mention possible concerns about American influence in the region, as well. I just don't think that at that time, they really wanted to engage in a conflict until they got put into a corner.
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Japan wasn't pushed into a corner. They at any time could have halted their empirical expansion.
 
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