Way to go, France

#1
T

therealUT

Rational Thought Allowed?
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#1
PARIS, April 11 (Reuters) - France's ban on full face veils, a first in Europe, went into force on Monday, exposing anyone who wears the Muslim niqab or burqa in public to fines of 150 euros ($216).

...

Police received a guide last week to help implement the ban. It tells them not to remove veils by force. It also notes that the ban does not apply inside private cars but reminds policemen such cases can be dealt with under road safety rules.

French full veil ban goes into force | News by Country | Reuters
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Aside from turning Paris into public enemy number one for all Islamic terrorist, this law effectively oppresses these women even more. The women who are currently forced to wear the burqa (which is not all women who wear the burqa), are now just going to be forcefully kept out of the public.
 
#2
#2
From what I understand France's issues with Muslims are less of a "terrorism" issue, but more of an immigration issue. France seems to want to force immigrants to adopt French culture. I could definitely see how Muslims following strict and outdated religious traditions would bother the French more so than other nations. There's also the high unemployment which probably leads to anti-immigration.

I see why they are doing it, I just don't know what they expect to accomplish except trying to make a point that those types aren't welcome.
 
#4
#4
I might get bashed for this, but I wish we had something similar (although not restricting any religion) for having to adopt American culture. I know that America has had numerous contributions from immigrants, but it seems recently (last few decades) many immigrants are very anti-U.S. That seems oxymoronic but many are just taking advantage of the wealth here, and have no intention of integrating into the culture. I wish English was made the only official language, and maybe some other things just no restrictions on religion.
 
#5
#5
DefenseisDesire said:
I might get bashed for this, but I wish we had something similar (although not restricting any religion) for having to adopt American culture. I know that America has had numerous contributions from immigrants, but it seems recently (last few decades) many immigrants are very anti-U.S. That seems oxymoronic but many are just taking advantage of the wealth here, and have no intention of integrating into the culture. I wish English was made the only official language, and maybe some other things just no restrictions on religion.
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As proven by the enormous numbers of immigrants that are serving in our military.
 
#6
#6
therealUT said:
As proven by the enormous numbers of immigrants that are serving in our military.
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I said many, not all or even most. I don't know where you live but if you have ever been to south texas you know what I am talking about. It was not an insult to all immigrants, just an observation that's all.
 
#7
#7
DefenseisDesire said:
I said many, not all or even most. I don't know where you live but if you have ever been to south texas you know what I am talking about. It was not an insult to all immigrants, just an observation that's all.
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Nice dodge. "Many" implies a significant amount.

Re: most are anti-US.

You think that forcing them to abandon their culture is going to make them pro-US?

Sidebar:

How many European immigrants adopted Native American language and culture when they arrived?

How many first-generation European immigrants, late 19th and early 20th century, gave up their language and culture and readily learned English?

There was a reason that major cities were divided into immigrant ghettos. The reason was not because all the immigrants were so willing to adopt "American culture and language".
 
#8
#8
therealUT said:
Nice dodge. "Many" implies a significant amount.

Re: most are anti-US.

You think that forcing them to abandon their culture is going to make them pro-US?

Sidebar:

How many European immigrants adopted Native American language and culture when they arrived?

How many first-generation European immigrants, late 19th and early 20th century, gave up their language and culture and readily learned English?

There was a reason that major cities were divided into immigrant ghettos. The reason was not because all the immigrants were so willing to adopt "American culture and language".
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I know your history is obviously hazy but you do know that European immigrants overtook the continent. I'm puzzled as to why you would cite that as a reason to not encourage adoption of culture from immigrants.
 
#9
#9
DefenseisDesire said:
I know your history is obviously hazy but you do know that European immigrants overtook the continent.
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Are you going to argue that, in hindsight (seeing what America has done over the past 200 years), that was a bad thing?

I think it was a terrible thing and I have my reasons; yet, you seem to be very pro-US, a stance that would be utterly impossible had those immigrants assimilated to Native American culture.
 
#10
#10
Weezy said:
From what I understand France's issues with Muslims are less of a "terrorism" issue, but more of an immigration issue. France seems to want to force immigrants to adopt French culture. I could definitely see how Muslims following strict and outdated religious traditions would bother the French more so than other nations. There's also the high unemployment which probably leads to anti-immigration.

I see why they are doing it, I just don't know what they expect to accomplish except trying to make a point that those types aren't welcome.
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I can understand France's motives to a degree. However, the last attempt by the French to force another culture to be Parisian clones resulted in Dien Bien Phu.
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#11
#11
therealUT said:
Are you going to argue that, in hindsight (seeing what America has done over the past 200 years), that was a bad thing?

I think it was a terrible thing and I have my reasons; yet, you seem to be very pro-US, a stance that would be utterly impossible had those immigrants assimilated to Native American culture.
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No obviously it was a good thing as the Indians were a heathen tribe of people with low technology that were on a mass of natural resources needing harvest. However, America is not.
 
#12
#12
DefenseisDesire said:
No obviously it was a good thing as the Indians were a heathen tribe of people with low technology that were on a mass of natural resources needing harvest. However, America is not.
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Genocide against heathens, that have inferior technology but superior treasure is splendid, isn't it...
 
#15
#15
Civilization has definitely advanced a bit since then. Wasn't like 90% of the "genocide" brought on by disease though?
 
#16
#16
Yes, atrocities occured in the founding of America, but unfortunatley that is a common occurance with revolution and conquering new lands. Our forefathers did not invent that.
 
#17
#17
therealUT said:
There is no "greater good".

The acts in themselves were terrible and cannot be justified by any of the consequences.
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I disagree. Ill take the hundreds of millions of lives saved over the years by anyone associated with America vs. a conquered people being allowed to still live out their culture to this day
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#18
#18
Weezy said:
Civilization has definitely advanced a bit since then. Wasn't like 90% of the "genocide" brought on by disease though?
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90-95%.

That does not excuse the intentional massacres, though, that occurred with impunity under both the colonial administrations and the US Government.
 
#19
#19
DefenseisDesire said:
I disagree. Ill take the hundreds of millions of lives saved over the years by anyone associated with America vs. a conquered people being allowed to still live out their culture to this day
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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As long as the ends justifies the means, right?
 
#21
#21
therealUT said:
As long as the ends justifies the means, right?
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You are quite the bickerer, I'll give you that. Are you suggesting that a) Europeans should never have settled in NA/SA which would have gone against all of human's history of conquest for resources, or b) that Europeans that did reach these continents were to have assimilated into Native American culture that itself was brutal and violent and which also would have led to bloodshed? I agree things could have been done differently but so could every other event in history when a more technologically advanced culture meets a lesser one. Unfortunate but also human nature.
 
#22
#22
CSVol said:
You are quite the bickerer, I'll give you that. Are you suggesting that a) Europeans should never have settled in NA/SA which would have gone against all of human's history of conquest for resources,
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I am suggesting that the manner in which humans have cruelly subjugated and exterminated fellow humans in the pursuit of resources, throughout history, is patently evil.

CSVol said:
or b) that Europeans that did reach these continents were to have assimilated into Native American culture that itself was brutal and violent and which also would have led to bloodshed?
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Native American history during the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries was far less brutal and violent than European history during the same period. "Society" and "Civilization" do not equate, under historical examination, to less brutality and bloodshed.

However, I am actually arguing against forced assimilation. The Europeans that reached the Americans should have done what they could to work with the locals. If the locals did not want to work with them, then the Europeans could have left; instead, they opted to resort to violent coercive measures.

CSVol said:
I agree things could have been done differently but so could every other event in history when a more technologically advanced culture meets a lesser one. Unfortunate but also human nature.
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Precedent in no way equates to righteousness.
 
#23
#23
*Note to self*

Add France as a potential country I could move to.
 
#25
#25
just imagine how much better off the world would be if the land mass that currently constitutes the continental United States was nothing more than a verdant wilderness sparsely populated by wandering tribes of hunter/gatherers.

The men who would have become the Founding Fathers were instead born into European aristocracy, where they could possibly have led a secular revolution against the various monarchies and their puppetmasters in the Church.

There would be no global warming, no War on Terror, no Jersey Shore. But, unfortunately a bunch of white people decided that Europe sucked, so they left for greener pastures. It's just gone downhill from there.
 
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