"We" and "Us" in Broadcasts

#51
#51
SpringBokVol said:
For the integrity of the profession.
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How so? Is it in their job description to be unbiased as representatives of the University?

I'd rather know an announcer has a bias upfront rather than having to decipher comments that might slip in.

How does it make for less integrity to tell the truth about how you feel? Does it mean he'll tell us it's 3rd down when it's really 4th?:crazy:
 
#56
#56
VolsSportsFan said:
Integrity as defined by you.

And you're in the minority so my advice would be to get over it.
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The fact that an opinion represents a minority view does not mean it is wrong. That is a fallacy.

As far as integrity, I'm pretty sure there are professional standards regarding objectivity set out somewhere that broadcasters are generally expected to adhere to. This is not something a couple of us in this thread invented on our own. Unfortunately, I'm too tired to research them now.
 
#57
#57
Bassmanbruno said:
No, sorry. You're wrong.

The Vol Network (with a major emphasis on Vol) isn't ESPN, CBS, ABC, FSN, CSS, NBC, etc. Sorry - you're wrong - get over it.
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It's called the "Vol Network" because the network carries broadcasts related to Volunteer sports, as opposed to broadcasts of a more general interest. Doesn't mean it has to be a full court homer press for the Vols. No more than CBS is expected to be a homer for Colombians, or FSN for vulpes.
 
#59
#59
dsbyrd said:
It's called the "Vol Network" because the network carries broadcasts related to Volunteer sports, as opposed to broadcasts of a more general interest. Doesn't mean it has to be a full court homer press for the Vols. No more than CBS is expected to be a homer for Colombians, or FSN for vulpes.
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And tell me - who is the listening audience of the Vol Network?
 
#60
#60
Bassmanbruno said:
And tell me - who is the listening audience of the Vol Network?
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I'm sure the network and their sales people have some pretty detailed demographic data, to which I am not privy.

However, if you are suggesting that the listening audience is primarily composed of Vol fans, I'm sure you are right. That doesn't mean the Vol Network broadcasters have a license to be homers though. I'm a huge Vol fan. I am a regular listener. Still, I'd prefer them to strive for some objectivity and avoid using terminology which gives the appearance of blatant unobjectivity.

If the Vol network decided to air a talk/opinion show- objectivity can go out the window as far as I'm concerned. But for a game broadcast, I expect an effort to objectively call the game.

It's like the difference between news copy in a paper, and the editorial and op-ed section.
 
#61
#61
dsbyrd said:
I'm sure the network and their sales people have some pretty detailed demographic data, to which I am not privy.

However, if you are suggesting that the listening audience is primarily composed of Vol fans, I'm sure you are right. That doesn't mean the Vol Network broadcasters have a license to be homers though. I'm a huge Vol fan. I am a regular listener. Still, I'd prefer them to strive for some objectivity and avoid using terminology which gives the appearance of blatant unobjectivity.

If the Vol network decided to air a talk/opinion show- objectivity can go out the window as far as I'm concerned. But for a game broadcast, I expect an effort to objectively call the game.

It's like the difference between news copy in a paper, and the editorial and op-ed section.
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You could always listen to the opposing teams radio network if you do not like the way Bob calls it. You'll rip your hair out within a few minutes listing to Kentucky's basketball network if Bob/Bert bother you so much.

Bob is one of the only announcers on a specific team's network who seems to get overly excited when the opposing team wins. I listened to the Vandy game two years ago at Memorial where we lost on the last second layup and you would have thought Tennessee won the game.

Florida's guy (for football) atleast is less objective than Mike Keith. "OOOOOOOOOOOOOOhhh MEEEEEEEEEEY!"
 
#62
#62
Bassmanbruno said:
You could always listen to the opposing teams radio network if you do not like the way Bob calls it. You'll rip your hair out within a few minutes listing to Kentucky's basketball network if Bob/Bert bother you so much.

Bob is one of the only announcers on a specific team's network who seems to get overly excited when the opposing team wins. I listened to the Vandy game two years ago at Memorial where we lost on the last second layup and you would have thought Tennessee won the game.

Florida's guy (for football) atleast is less objective than Mike Keith. "OOOOOOOOOOOOOOhhh MEEEEEEEEEEY!"
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I love the Vol network and have been listening for 40 years and I have no intention of changing. It doesn't bother me "so much." I just find it mildly irritating, and I expect a little better. I've come to have some high standards derived from the current crew's predecessors.

That's all.
 
#63
#63
dsbyrd said:
The fact that an opinion represents a minority view does not mean it is wrong. That is a fallacy.

As far as integrity, I'm pretty sure there are professional standards regarding objectivity set out somewhere that broadcasters are generally expected to adhere to. This is not something a couple of us in this thread invented on our own. Unfortunately, I'm too tired to research them now.
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A) Being right or wrong has nothing to do whatsoever with his opinion, because it can't be right or wrong. However being in the minority has to do with how many people share his opinion and in this case, the number that share his opinon is obviously the minority. This isn't a case of the minority being "right", it's the minority doesn't like it. Has absolutely nohting to do with "right" vs. "wrong".

B) These standards you talk about are obviously standards that apply to NEUTRAL broadcasts. ESPN, ABC, NBC, FOX, etc. Every broadcast for every team in America is biased towards their team. I don't know where you've gotten this idea that they have to have the same standards as a national broadcast needs to have, because it hasn't been that way in probably 40-50 years.

As I said, every team broadcast is like this, and it's not going to change, so my advice would stand: get over it.
 
#64
#64
VolsSportsFan said:
A)
As I said, every team broadcast is like this, and it's not going to change, so my advice would stand: get over it.
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Every team broadcast is not like this. Ours didn't used to be.

And I don't know that it should be called a "team broadcast."
 
#65
#65
dsbyrd said:
Every team broadcast is not like this. Ours didn't used to be.

And I don't know that it should be called a "team broadcast."
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Name me one that isn't biased for their team, or by listening to them you can't tell who they are for.
 
#66
#66
VolsSportsFan said:
Name me one that isn't biased for their team, or by listening to them you can't tell who they are for.
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I never said sports broadcasters for networks affiliated with schools weren't biased and that one could not detect said bias when listening.

All I have consistently said is that they should strive to call the game without saying "we" and "us," and that as professionals they should be as objective as possible.

P.S. The fallacy in your latest argument is known as the "red herring" or as "digression," for those following along in their text books.
 
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#67
#67
dsbyrd said:
I never said sports broadcasters for networks affiliated with schools weren't biased and that one could not detect said bias when listening.

All I have consistently said is that they should strive to call the game without saying "we" and "us," and that as professionals they should be as objective as possible.

P.S. The fallacy in your latest argument is known as the "red herring" or as "digression," for those following along in their text books.
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Actually there is no fallacy, you are the one that made the claim that there are broadcast teams that don't do the "we/us" thing, i.e. ", "Every team broadcast is not like this", and I'm merely asking for an example. I merely lumped it with being biased, becuase obviously saying "we/us" would imply bias.

So, I'll rephrase the request, name a broadcasting team that doesn't consistently do the "us/we" thing, and I so you don't get confused I mean one that follows one certain team.
 
#68
#68
VolsSportsFan said:
Actually there is no fallacy, you are the one that made the claim that there are broadcast teams that don't do the "we/us" thing, i.e. ", "Every team broadcast is not like this", and I'm merely asking for an example. I merely lumped it with being biased, becuase obviously saying "we/us" would imply bias.

So, I'll rephrase the request, name a broadcasting team that doesn't consistently do the "us/we" thing, and I so you don't get confused I mean one that follows one certain team.
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It was indeed a fallacious argument on your part- you attempted to digress to whether other university affiliated networks exhibit some bias. The original topic is whether it is acceptable to use "we" or "us."

So now that you are back on topic I will answer your query about other networks who don't use "we" or "us."

I could name dozens because I crisscross the country listening to other university affiliated networks and I take detailed notes on each. In addition, and fortunately (in light of current fuel prices), I am able to routinely monitor from the comfort of my home, 69 university affiliates broadcasting in the A.M. band thanks to my 500 meter long "beverage" antenna. Granted, my study is biased in favor of those who play a lot of night games, due to basic rules of radio propagation which are beyond my control.

In total, I have compiled a spreadsheet on 115 college or university affiliated networks and their usage of "we" and "us." 69 percent were never heard to use the offending words. Of the remaining 31 percent, announcers used it less than four times per game on average.

Darn. You only asked for one example and here I am running on and on. I will pick one at random. I've listened to countless hours of the Black Bear Radio Network (University of Maine - not that I have to tell you) and Rich Kimball and Bob Lucy have never, ever, said "us" or "we" during a broadcast. OK, in the interest of full disclosure, Bob did say "we" one time, but it was in the context of "we are having a hard time seeing the field with this dadgum blizzard." (Football, I know, but I'm not a big Black Bear basketball follower.)

Oh- And I never heard "us" or "we" during the John Ward era on the Vol Network either. It might have happened, but it wouldn't have come out of Ward's mouth, and it would have been rare indeed.
 
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#69
#69
dsbyrd said:
It was indeed a fallacious argument on your part- you attempted to digress to whether other university affiliated networks exhibit some bias. The original topic is whether it is acceptable to use "we" or "us."

So now that you are back on topic I will answer your query about other networks who don't use "we" or "us."

I could name dozens because I crisscross the country listening to other university affiliated networks and I take detailed notes on each. In addition, and fortunately (in light of current fuel prices), I am able to routinely monitor from the comfort of my home, 69 university affiliates broadcasting in the A.M. band thanks to my 500 meter long "beverage" antenna. Granted, my study is biased in favor of those who play a lot of night games, due to basic rules of radio propagation which are beyond my control.

In total, I have compiled a spreadsheet on 115 college or university affiliated networks and their usage of "we" and "us." 69 percent were never heard to use the offending words. Of the remaining 31 percent, announcers used it less than four times per game on average.

Darn. You only asked for one example and here I am running on and on. I will pick one at random. I've listened to countless hours of the Black Bear Radio Network (University of Maine - not that I have to tell you) and Rich Kimball and Bob Lucy have never, ever, said "us" or "we" during a broadcast. OK, in the interest of full disclosure, Bob did say "we" one time, but it was in the context of "we are having a hard time seeing the field with this dadgum blizzard." (Football, I know, but I'm not a big Black Bear basketball follower.)

Oh- And I never heard "us" or "we" during the John Ward era on the Vol Network either. It might have happened, but it wouldn't have come out of Ward's mouth, and it would have been rare indeed.
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Well for one, I believe the original complaint by you was that Bert is the one saying "we", and last time I checked Bert was the color guy, which if you kept up with the thread it was established that the color guy usually is the one saying "we". So telling me John Ward never said "we" is pretty irrelevent since he was play-by-play, and I believe it was also already established that Bob Kesling doesn't use "we". So congrats on using Ward as an example that didn't fit in the first place.

And second, apparently you never listened to any of Ward's broadcasts over the years with Bill Anderson, he most certainly used "we".

As far as your "data", yeah I can make up stuff too. I have a spreadsheet that says your spreadsheet is wrong.
 
#70
#70
I dont mind a bit when the local broadcasting crew revels in the home good fortunes & basking in ops. misfortunes. That is why they are being paid for. When you do it on a national level, that is a differant story.
 
#71
#71
VolsSportsFan said:
And second, apparently you never listened to any of Ward's broadcasts over the years with Bill Anderson, he most certainly used "we".
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You got me there. I have never heard a John Ward broadcast. I am a phony- a sham. I grew up, listening to tales of his greatness. I have heard some of his natural gas commercials aired after his retirement though. I don't expect you to believe that either, in light of the horrendous fraud I have perpetrated here. But if you can suspend your disbelief for but a moment, imagine me laying in bed, replaying those commercials, my mind painting wonderful word pictures in which he would call the game, and that sexy chick with an English accent would do the color, never once saying "we" or "us." I constructed a wonderful, yet fraudulent alternative reality and you have brought it to a ruinous end. I don't blame your though. It had to come to an end eventually, and in some ways it is a relief. I don't have to pretend any longer.

VolsSportsFan said:
As far as your "data", yeah I can make up stuff too. I have a spreadsheet that says your spreadsheet is wrong.
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Now that's going too far. I stand by all of the statistics I quoted and I dare you to prove me wrong. I may have lied about the whole John Ward thing, but I defy you to prove me wrong on the Brown Bears. You have stripped me of almost all my dignity with your artfully crafted arguments, but I hang on to that little shred. It's all I have left.
 
#72
#72
I just called Bert and passed along your complaint, and his reply was, and I quote..."Bite me".

So I guess you'll have to wait on your utopia of a broadcast team that doesn't commit the awful sin of using "we". But keep up the fight, I'm sure your hard work in ending such injustice will put you right up there with Martin Luther King Jr.
 
#73
#73
I think "WE" is :crazy: crazy. To say that Bert can't use we in his vocabulary expressing the Vols is yeah, Crazy.
 
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