We the People Will Build the Beautiful Steel Slat Barrier

#2,476
#2,476
utvolpj said:
No you're taking about artificial wage controls. That's not allowing the market to actually work. I'm sort of ok with a registered guest worker program since it's the absolute best to hope for with our govt. They won't pay net taxes and will still drain on services under the current system. It's why I keep repeating "real reform" only to get told that means a wall and more ICE raids

Skilled or unskilled are all held to the same building codes. The person hiring them is on the hook. I didn't work for a contractor but could recognize who got paid cash and who got a check. A lot more got cash than you would think
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utvolpj said:
I had a better view than most since I was on multiple job sites 3-4 days each week for about 6 years

The market should be allowed to determine wages.
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What were you doing on construction sites?
 
#2,477
#2,477
utvolpj said:
You're talking about a market while cheering artificial govt price controls. I'm saying it may be the best we can hope for but it's not a free market

If he can't compete on price then he needs to figure out something else. Why is it the govts job to make sure he's competitive and successful?

And why does it matter who does the work if the job is up to the same code everyone answers to? If it matters to the customer they'll search it out and pay the premium
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Then why have minimum wage?
 
#2,482
#2,482
Orange_Vol1321 said:
I'm glad for minimum wage. I don't want to pay $8 for a loaf of bread.
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#2,483
#2,483
DinkinFlicka said:
I know your memory is selective but it wasn't exactly the most popular idea at first. It took what Dems had been fighting for since the 80's and put it on steroids. It was one of the most (if not the most) divisive bills in my lifetime.

And yeah, surprise surprise, your guys is a flippant ******* who regularly pisses off his own party. It's why his biggest pieces of legislation have been an uphill battle from day one and have yet to manifest.
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60 votes are required to pass legislation in the Senate. 🙄
 
#2,484
#2,484
Roustabout said:
Wow, that is about backwards. It’s his fault that the system is being subverted? Law abiding is not advocating price controls. Talk about twisting the truth. Maybe we should get rid of building codes while we’re at it. Why is it the gubments job to make sure we’re safe?
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control of the labor market is absolutely a form of price control. So is a wall, a min wage, price ceilings, licensing, etc
 
#2,485
#2,485
utvolpj said:
control of the labor market is absolutely a form of price control. So is a wall, a min wage, price ceilings, licensing, etc
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Sorry, that doesn’t follow. What I just described isn’t price control. It would be like saying a factory can hire all the undocumented workers it wants and pay them cash while another factory who operates legally just needs to “figure it out.” The tax paying, legal workers suffer. That is price manipulation as their wages are driven down based on law breaking.

I have to be licensed in my field. I have to pay taxes. That’s not price fixing labor.

I’m with you on minimum wage.

A wall for the sake of controlling labor costs, sure. A wall for dealing with a massive trafficking and documentation problem, no.
 
#2,486
#2,486
We don't need a dang wall, all we need to curb illegal immigration is to make the punishment for hiring or renting to an illegal a couple years in the penitentiary for the bosses. Do that and start a guest worker program and boom, no more illegal immigration and not a dime spent on a damn wall.
 
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#2,487
#2,487
Roustabout said:
Sorry, that doesn’t follow. What I just described isn’t price control. It would be like saying a factory can hire all the undocumented workers it wants and pay them cash while another factory who operates legally just needs to “figure it out.” The tax paying, legal workers suffer. That is price manipulation as their wages are driven down based on law breaking.

I have to be licensed in my field. I have to pay taxes. That’s not price fixing labor.

I’m with you on minimum wage.

A wall for the sake of controlling labor costs, sure. A wall for dealing with a massive trafficking and documentation problem, no.
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Barriers to entry are price controls too and that's covered with licensing. I'm not claiming all are bad but many exist as a barrier

You seem stuck on what's currently "illegal" vs what should be happening in a free market. Prices are being artificially inflated by the governing body in the form of immigration laws. Operating with a limited labor pool is control
 
#2,488
#2,488
utvolpj said:
Barriers to entry are price controls too and that's covered with licensing. I'm not claiming all are bad but many exist as a barrier

You seem stuck on what's currently "illegal" vs what should be happening in a free market. Prices are being artificially inflated by the governing body in the form of immigration laws. Operating with a limited labor pool is control
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I think you’re being manipulative with the terms.
You dont have to have a wall to have a barrier to entry. We have have barriers to entry for all kinds of goods and services. Tax law and citizenship and not just some inconsequential things you can dismiss. If the market demands labor then people should be allowed to enter legally and obtain work. But if one laborer can be paid less because he is being paid under the table and not taxed then that is just plain wrong. That’s not simply because he will take less money. It’s because he’s subverting the law. We are a nation of laws.

Who said limited labor pool? I already said I support labor from any source as long as it complies with law and doesn’t undermine the legal citizens. I work side by side with legal immigrants and have zero problem with that. But if my employer paid them less and off the books without them paying taxes then we have a different story. You are distorting the narrative and the underlying issue of undocumented workers.
 
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#2,490
#2,490
hog88 said:
We don't need a dang wall, all we need to curb illegal immigration is to make the punishment for hiring or renting to an illegal a couple years in the penitentiary for the bosses. Do that and start a guest worker program and boom, no more illegal immigration and not a dime spent on a damn wall.
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It's already illegal to cross and that's not being enforced. More laws would just be ignored like the existing ones. A wall isn't a law the politicians can ignore. It's going to work no matter what.
 
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#2,493
#2,493
Orange_Vol1321 said:
It's already illegal to cross and that's not being enforced. More laws would just be ignored like the existing ones. A wall isn't a law the politicians can ignore. It's going to work no matter what.
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Currently there is almost no penalty for the people employing or renting to those that cross illegally. If the upper management were threatened with actual prison time believe me the practice would stop.
 
#2,494
#2,494
hog88 said:
Currently there is almost no penalty for the people employing or renting to those that cross illegally. If the upper management were threatened with actual prison time believe me the practice would stop.
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If they will enforce it I'm all for it plus the wall.
 
#2,496
#2,496
utvolpj said:
Depended on the site but I did everything from underground to trim.

Shoe size: 13
Waist: 34
Shirt: large or 15.5x34/35
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Hey, you said you had a better view than most. I just wanted to know where you were looking from. Also, that is a pretty big wasit for such a small chest.
 
#2,497
#2,497
Roustabout said:
I think you’re being manipulative with the terms.
You dont have to have a wall to have a barrier to entry. We have have barriers to entry for all kinds of goods and services. Tax law and citizenship and not just some inconsequential things you can dismiss. If the market demands labor then people should be allowed to enter legally and obtain work. But if one laborer can be paid less because he is being paid under the table and not taxed then that is just plain wrong. That’s not simply because he will take less money. It’s because he’s subverting the law. We are a nation of laws.

Who said limited labor pool? I already said I support labor from any source as long as it complies with law and doesn’t undermine the legal citizens. I work side by side with legal immigrants and have zero problem with that. But if my employer paid them less and off the books without them paying taxes then we have a different story. You are distorting the narrative and the underlying issue of undocumented workers.
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In a free market the idea of legal vs illegal labor wouldn't exist. This should be about removing barriers not keeping current ones and enacting more. You're trying to shoehorn current laws into a free market definition and it doesn't fit

Start from free and work backwards not the other way around
 
#2,498
#2,498
Sandman 423 said:
Hey, you said you had a better view than most. I just wanted to know where you were looking from. Also, that is a pretty big wasit for such a small chest.
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That much time dealing directly with trades in the fastest growing housing market in the country gives good access.

Never mentioned my chest and a 34 waist is big for a guy who's 6'2"? Not in this country
 
#2,499
#2,499
hog88 said:
Currently there is almost no penalty for the people employing or renting to those that cross illegally. If the upper management were threatened with actual prison time believe me the practice would stop.
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It is the GOVERNMENTS job to make sure the people here are legal. Why force companies to do the governments job? If Joe Blo pays Juan to mow his grass should we send him to jail?
 
#2,500
#2,500
utvolpj said:
In a free market the idea of legal vs illegal labor wouldn't exist. This should be about removing barriers not keeping current ones and enacting more. You're trying to shoehorn current laws into a free market definition and it doesn't fit

Start from free and work backwards not the other way around
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Current laws that are fundamental to what we are. As I said, you’re just flippantly dismissing citizenship and tax law as some arbitrary matter. It’s impossible to engage you when you do that.
 
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