We the People Will Build the Beautiful Steel Slat Barrier

#2,451
#2,451
Orangeburst said:
They are criminals. And the plan would of doubled the number of Dreamers.
Oh I see now. It was about a waste of money before and now it is about us needing more immigration.
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Oh the criminal thing again. Original. He called them hardened criminals (who aren't even eligible if that's true)

The wall plan is and always had been a waste. It's a monument to himself. That's what he's done his whole life. Wr need real immigration ideas and they aren't coming from Penn Ave
 
#2,454
#2,454
ajvol01 said:
So you’re pro open borders / illegal immigration?
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I've made it pretty clear I'm in favor of legal immigration that provides the necessary labor force. Reform greatly decreases any need for a monument built on stolen ground
 
#2,457
#2,457
utvolpj said:
The right ones will make huge differences. You're now shifting and excusing the complete lack of effort by the gop and claiming it wouldn't matter anyways
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What are the right ones Einstein? Reform means nothing if it isn’t enforced.
 
#2,459
#2,459
C-south said:
How would that affect dim states/districts from doing what they want? Should those reps be charged?
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When you control the house, senate, and the WH you should be able to do what you want if you are effective. Obama was able to shove Obamacare up our ass. Shows he was better at getting biatches in line.
 
#2,462
#2,462
volfanhill said:
When you control the house, senate, and the WH you should be able to do what you want if you are effective. Obama was able to shove Obamacare up our ass. Shows he was better at getting biatches in line.
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Yea that legacy defining legislation worked out.
 
#2,467
#2,467
utvolpj said:
we also need them for jobs like construction, agriculture, etc that help drive this country and economy. I watched the housing boom in the early 2000s and know it wasn't powered by American labor
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Did you have an exclusive view?

Illegal labor drives down wages that tax paying citizens won’t take.
 
#2,468
#2,468
Roustabout said:
Did you have an exclusive view?

Illegal labor drives down wages that tax paying citizens won’t take.
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I had a better view than most since I was on multiple job sites 3-4 days each week for about 6 years

The market should be allowed to determine wages.
 
#2,469
#2,469
utvolpj said:
I had a better view than most since I was on multiple job sites 3-4 days each week for about 6 years

The market should be allowed to determine wages.
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If you are talking about documented people working and paying taxes then I’m with you.

When employers and the employees are breaking the law to do so? Hell no.
Sure, I can pay Pedro less because I’m avoiding labor tax and paying him cash. Did your contractor pay people under the table? I’m guessing no.

There are other issues. Building codes for example. Am I using skilled labor with certain training and certifications or am I paying an unskilled person to do the job for less?

Legal labor, no problem.
Illegal, problem.
 
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#2,470
#2,470
Roustabout said:
If you are talking about documented people working and paying taxes then I’m with you.

When employers and the employees are breaking the law to do so? Hell no.
Sure, I can pay Pedro less because I’m avoiding labor tax and paying him cash. Did your contractor pay people under the table? I’m guessing no.

There are other issues. Building codes for example. Am I using skilled labor with certain training and certifications or am I paying an unskilled person to do the job for less?

Legal labor, no problem.
Illegal, problem.
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No you're taking about artificial wage controls. That's not allowing the market to actually work. I'm sort of ok with a registered guest worker program since it's the absolute best to hope for with our govt. They won't pay net taxes and will still drain on services under the current system. It's why I keep repeating "real reform" only to get told that means a wall and more ICE raids

Skilled or unskilled are all held to the same building codes. The person hiring them is on the hook. I didn't work for a contractor but could recognize who got paid cash and who got a check. A lot more got cash than you would think
 
#2,471
#2,471
DinkinFlicka said:
I'm not a fan of ACA but the fact that he got it passed was objectively impressive.
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Such nonsense. It was a purely partisan vote.

Obama had 60 votes in the Senate.

59 Democrats Yes
1 “independent” Yes
39 Republicans No
1 Republican did not vote

Trump had 51 votes in the Senate (at best) during his first 2 years, but Corker, Flake, McCain, Collins and Murkowski were never solidly behind anything Trump wanted to do legislatively.
 
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#2,472
#2,472
ajvol01 said:
Such nonsense. It was a purely partisan vote
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I know your memory is selective but it wasn't exactly the most popular idea at first. It took what Dems had been fighting for since the 80's and put it on steroids. It was one of the most (if not the most) divisive bills in my lifetime.

And yeah, surprise surprise, your guys is a flippant ******* who regularly pisses off his own party. It's why his biggest pieces of legislation have been an uphill battle from day one and have yet to manifest.
 
#2,473
#2,473
utvolpj said:
No you're taking about artificial wage controls. That's not allowing the market to actually work. I'm sort of ok with a registered guest worker program since it's the absolute best to hope for with our govt. They won't pay net taxes and will still drain on services under the current system. It's why I keep repeating "real reform" only to get told that means a wall and more ICE raids

Skilled or unskilled are all held to the same building codes. The person hiring them is on the hook. I didn't work for a contractor but could recognize who got paid cash and who got a check. A lot more got cash than you would think
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Ok, now I’m completely confused as to what you are saying here.

Employee/employer is a reciprocal relationship.
Take for example the contractor who only pays legally. Can he be competitive with one who doesn’t?

So, does this climate press the employer to hire illegals? There was a show that recently dealt with this scenario.

When I was building my home the inspectors had little to no way of knowing whether the electrician was using licensed workers. The inspector came in after the work was done.
 
#2,474
#2,474
Roustabout said:
Ok, now I’m completely confused as to what you are saying here.
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You're talking about a market while cheering artificial govt price controls. I'm saying it may be the best we can hope for but it's not a free market
Roustabout said:
Employee/employer is a reciprocal relationship.
Take for example the contractor who only pays legally. Can he be competitive with one who doesn’t?

So, does this climate press the employer to hire illegals? There was a show that recently dealt with this scenario.

When I was building my home the inspectors had little to no way of knowing whether the electrician was using licensed workers. The inspector came in after the work was done.
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If he can't compete on price then he needs to figure out something else. Why is it the govts job to make sure he's competitive and successful?

And why does it matter who does the work if the job is up to the same code everyone answers to? If it matters to the customer they'll search it out and pay the premium
 
#2,475
#2,475
utvolpj said:
You're talking about a market while cheering artificial govt price controls. I'm saying it may be the best we can hope for but it's not a free market

If he can't compete on price then he needs to figure out something else. Why is it the govts job to make sure he's competitive and successful?

And why does it matter who does the work if the job is up to the same code everyone answers to? If it matters to the customer they'll search it out and pay the premium
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Wow, that is about backwards. It’s his fault that the system is being subverted? Law abiding is not advocating price controls. Talk about twisting the truth. Maybe we should get rid of building codes while we’re at it. Why is it the gubments job to make sure we’re safe?

I have literally no problem with where the labor comes from. I have dozens of clients and coworkers who are immigrants. Physicians, engineers and any other thing you could imagine. The difference is they all play by the same rule book. The doctors are required to have the same licensing and insurance. The hospital can’t hire illegal alien doctors and pay them cash. That’s not a price control. If those doctors want to take less money while working under those same labor laws then so be it.
 
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