Well I guess it is Jancek's fault that UGA can't stop Auburn either

[xpsyclonex2002]

yes please fire this guy by all means. :crazy:We definately need to stay ON the coaching merry-go-round. That would be the best thing for the team. I mean seriously..... do you have any idea how much harm it would do to these players to have a DC who was here more than one year? It's healthy to change staff at every whim of the fan base. Example: we dumped "The Chief" when he got stale and replaced him with a legend, Monty Kiffin. It's been nothing but upward and onward ever since.

 

[butchna]

Way to gloat about the Nebraska game and the LSU, yet leave out the National Championship that fell smack dab in the middle. Talk about an agenda....smfh

You have a bad habit of grabbing a point, mauling it like a rotweiler and leaving a bloody mess...Chavis was great during his time at UT, but since we're crucifying Jancek for past failures as DC, my point is that even the most highly regarded have second guessed points on their resume...my "agenda" is probably the same as yours ..if you're a Vol fan that is....resume shaking your freaking head!
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[Orange_Crush]

Hahaha...Is Orange_Crush actually trying to say we had anything other than an awful defensive performance against Missouri? Seriously?

Because we allowed less points? In a 31-3 rout? Seriously?

Might the fewer points have anything to do with the fact that it was the 3rd largest margin of victory for Missouri this year (eclipsed only by Murray State and Kentucky, woohoo!)? Maybe we're just discounting that we gave up 502 yard of total offense, the 2nd most Missouri has gained this year (eclipsed only by Murray State)? Perhaps we're ignoring the 339 yards of rushing we allowed (also second only to Murray State, but at least we're not last right?)? Thank goodness James Franklin was healthy for the Murray State game or else our numbers might look really embarrassing.

Does anyone actually believe our defense played well against Missouri or are you just arguing for the pure thrill of seeing your name each time you hit "submit reply"?

orange_crush will, of course, need the last word, so I'll just hang up and listen

I usually get the last word because I point out how irrational your drivel is.

Now... I never said our defense has played well, nor that I wouldn't prefer we held teams to lower scores. But in a conversation about how well our defensive coordinator has performed, it seems plausible to compare our defense against the other defenses that have played our opponents.

I am glad to see you didn't interrupt the post coital rituals of Orange Crush and Train Me Please with your logical points.

No one can possibly be happy with the defensive performance we have seen the last month.

They just want to come on here with a sanctimonious " I am a better fan than you because I don't complain" attitude to make themselves feel better about themselves I guess.

It's the lazy thinkers that tend to group into "they" and "themselves". I never played the 'fan card'. I merely compared our defensive performances against those who played our opponents and posited that perhaps our DC may not be as incompetent as he is being portrayed. If a team is scoring in bunches nearly every game, maybe you just have to tip your hat and hope for better in the future.

By the way, when you leave the facts of the conversation and settle again into name calling, personal attacks, and invented motives, you've officially admitted that you have lost any semblance of credibility in a discussion.

By all means, carry on.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

I usually get the last word because I point out how irrational your drivel is.

Now... I never said our defense has played well, nor that I wouldn't prefer we held teams to lower scores. But in a conversation about how well our defensive coordinator has performed, it seems plausible to compare our defense against the other defenses that have played our opponents.



It's the lazy thinkers that tend to group into "they" and "themselves". I never played the 'fan card'. I merely compared our defensive performances against those who played our opponents and posited that perhaps our DC may not be as incompetent as he is being portrayed. If a team is scoring in bunches nearly every game, maybe you just have to tip your hat and hope for better in the future.

By the way, when you leave the facts of the conversation and settle again into name calling, personal attacks, and invented motives, you've officially admitted that you have lost any semblance of credibility in a discussion.

By all means, carry on.

The only two I grouped into anything were you and your boy toy Train Me Please.

You two started with the name calling and personal attacks last night and I have simply responded in kind.

And I have yet to see a credible response from you or any actual evidence that Jancek is actually doing a good job.

Just a regurgitation from you of scores of other teams against common opponents which seems to be the sole basis of your opinion.

I frankly don't care how other teams did against AL, MO, OR, AUB or anyone else.

You want to bring up another team though, try South Alabama getting beat by Navy 42-14.

I am concerned about the Vols and how the fundamentals of tackling and assignment football have completely eroded the last 3 weeks.


The " well such and such did bad against team X so it's OK that the Vols do bad against team X" is simply another way to offer an excuse for poor effort and bad football.

There have been far too many excuses and not enough solutions offered by the men in charge at UT for the last decade.

Every coach that comes in here talks about changing the climate and culture of UT football but we have yet to see one actually affect it based on the results on the field.

I am fine with giving Jones and even Jancek time.

What I am not fine with however is mealy mouthed fans such as yourself offering one excuse after another on here for lousy football and acting as though you are on some moral high ground because you won't call it like it is.

 

[patrick]

Granthem can't stop them with much better athletes and a vastly superior Dline and lb's

Seriously?????

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Seriously?????

Its the truth. Auburn put up almost 600 yards of offense on Georgia.

 

[patrick]

Its the truth. Auburn put up almost 600 yards of offense on Georgia.

Tennessee's Defense is the worst in the SEC East and not much better than last year. Better yes statistically. But really????

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Tennessee's Defense is the worst in the SEC East and not much better than last year. Better yes statistically. But really????

Well Grantham did not stop Auburn and they have a better D than we do. Its got more to do with Auburn being a really good football team and less to do with a teams defense.

 

[Orange_Crush]

The only two I grouped into anything were you and your boy toy Train Me Please.

You two started with the name calling and personal attacks last night and I have simply responded in kind.

I'd be interested to see where I've called you any names or attacked you personally. To my recollection, I called some of your statements stupid, and said you come off as a jerk when you act in certain ways. In both cases, I spoke to your statements and actions-- not attack you personally.

By "in kind", what do you mean? Please point to any comment where I have cast sexual allusion, "post coital", etc, in your direction.

You come across as a socially awkward, scared, 14 year old that's yet to get out of Whitwell, to be honest.

In any event, I'll leave you to invent homosexual relationships between people whom you've never met, and simply decided to disagree with you on a free internet website. I won't waste my time any longer. Happy fantasies to you.

:hi:

 

[patrick]

Well Grantham did not stop Auburn and they have a better D than we do. Its got more to do with Auburn being a really good football team and less to do with a teams defense.

Im talking about the entire year. But my point is the original post is asinine. Jancek has a hell of a lot to prove and I expected to see more improvement from the Tennessee defense which was last year the worst in Tennessee history. This defense is not doing much better than last years.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Im talking about the entire year. But my point is the original post is asinine. Jancek has a hell of a lot to prove and I expected to see more improvement from the Tennessee defense which was last year the worst in Tennessee history. This defense is not doing much better than last years.

Ok my bad I didn't know what you meant. You are correct. Statistically we are only marginally better than last year. I am withholding judgement until after next season. I expect to see some good improvement on D next year.

 

[patrick]

Ok my bad I didn't know what you meant. You are correct. Statistically we are only marginally better than last year. I am withholding judgement until after next season. I expect to see some good improvement on D next year.

and im not saying to fire him at all....but i have questions but we will know more over the next two games as well as next year.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

I'd be interested to see where I've called you any names or attacked you personally. To my recollection, I called some of your statements stupid, and said you come off as a jerk when you act in certain ways. In both cases, I spoke to your statements and actions-- not attack you personally.

By "in kind", what do you mean? Please point to any comment where I have cast sexual allusion, "post coital", etc, in your direction.

You come across as a socially awkward, scared, 14 year old that's yet to get out of Whitwell, to be honest.

In any event, I'll leave you to invent homosexual relationships between people whom you've never met, and simply decided to disagree with you on a free internet website. I won't waste my time any longer. Happy fantasies to you.

:hi:

And with all that, you still cannot manage to get back on topic to discuss why you feel Jancek is the man for the job or provide any evidence of what he has done to improve this defense.

 

[volfan411]

And with all that, you still cannot manage to get back on topic to discuss why you feel Jancek is the man for the job or provide any evidence of what he has done to improve this defense.

I will take a stab at it.

I believe Jancek is currently recruitng the type of players that the defense needs to compete in the SEC. Now that is not saying he is the coach for the future or that he will get it done on the field.

 

[Orange_Crush]

And with all that, you still cannot manage to get back on topic to discuss why you feel Jancek is the man for the job or provide any evidence of what he has done to improve this defense.

Since I never claimed that he is, I have to assume that you are still not reading the posts in question. My main thought on the subject is that the defense has been questionable, but not a lot worse than most other teams that have played our common opponents. Jancek is yet to prove himself, but he needs time to do so before we may any snap judgments.

 

[sjt18]

Ok my bad I didn't know what you meant. You are correct. Statistically we are only marginally better than last year. I am withholding judgement until after next season. I expect to see some good improvement on D next year.

Will he have the players to do that though? You and others have droned on and on about a lack of talent/speed. Is it ideal? No. Is it the coverall excuse that so many of you are trying to make it? Absolutely positively NOT.

I believe the DL two deep right now is Hood, McCullers, O'Brien, Saulsberry, Miller, Walls, Smith, and Williams/Vereen.

Five of the 8 are gone. They will be replaced either by guys who could not beat them out this year or brand new players to the program. If the reason for failure this year is unfamiliarity with the system... then how can that not be a reason next year?

LB would be better if AJ returns but that seems unlikely. six of the 11 listed scholarship LB's will likely be gone next year. Maggitt returns and JRM looks like a stud. The other three are Harris, Bynum, and King. They do not look like real contributors at this point. That's one major reason I cannot understand why JRM does not get more PT. He needs the experience for next year because thin goes to even more thin then.

In the secondary, Moore and Toney will be gone. For all their flaws... the situation is unlikely to improve by replacing them with Fr or guys who cannot earn PT right now. The 4 starters return which is good but unless someone emerges or more than one new guy shows up as a major contributor (unlikely) then depth gets even worse.


You guys get mad at me but this is why I think it is so vital to see some signs that the DC can coach RIGHT NOW. The roster likely gets worse before it gets better and Jones (who I think may be the right HC) will be damaged if Jancek (who I am not convinced is the right DC) gets even worse than last in the SEC. If he cannot do it with this many upperclassmen then it is hard to see him getting better while dependent on underclassmen.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Will he have the players to do that though? You and others have droned on and on about a lack of talent/speed. Is it ideal? No. Is it the coverall excuse that so many of you are trying to make it? Absolutely positively NOT.

I believe the DL two deep right now is Hood, McCullers, O'Brien, Saulsberry, Miller, Walls, Smith, and Williams/Vereen.

Five of the 8 are gone. They will be replaced either by guys who could not beat them out this year or brand new players to the program. If the reason for failure this year is unfamiliarity with the system... then how can that not be a reason next year?

LB would be better if AJ returns but that seems unlikely. six of the 11 listed scholarship LB's will likely be gone next year. Maggitt returns and JRM looks like a stud. The other three are Harris, Bynum, and King. They do not look like real contributors at this point. That's one major reason I cannot understand why JRM does not get more PT. He needs the experience for next year because thin goes to even more thin then.

In the secondary, Moore and Toney will be gone. For all their flaws... the situation is unlikely to improve by replacing them with Fr or guys who cannot earn PT right now. The 4 starters return which is good but unless someone emerges or more than one new guy shows up as a major contributor (unlikely) then depth gets even worse.


You guys get mad at me but this is why I think it is so vital to see some signs that the DC can coach RIGHT NOW. The roster likely gets worse before it gets better and Jones (who I think may be the right HC) will be damaged if Jancek (who I am not convinced is the right DC) gets even worse than last in the SEC. If he cannot do it with this many upperclassmen then it is hard to see him getting better while dependent on underclassmen.

Jancek has proven that (so far) he is not a miracle worker. He has not proven that he is a bad DC, imho. I think you are making a separate argument than many on here are making, so perhaps there can be some common ground to be had.

Your argument: There are notable problems. There will likely be more problems next year. If Jancek can't make chicken salad with this, how can we expect chicken salad next year?

That may be valid.

It is a completely different argument than: Jancek has proven he is horrible, stupid, and can never be successful.

My stance: It may be bad next year too due to the problems you listed. But due to the problems you listed this year and next, I'm not prepared to make a final decision about Jancek yet.

Would I be offended if Jancek was fired and replaced with a sure-fire, top-shelf DC that lit UT up next year? Of course not! Will I give Jancek the benefit of the doubt until he fails with his own players, that know his system? Probably not.

To say: There are problems, there will be worse next year, so obviously Jancek sucks... is an irrational leap of logic. (I'm not sure that's the leap you've made by the way...)

 

[sjt18]

Jancek has proven that (so far) he is not a miracle worker. He has not proven that he is a bad DC, imho. I think you are making a separate argument than many on here are making, so perhaps there can be some common ground to be had.

I would agree with the above but would add that I believe he has underperformed the available talent. That isn't necessarily a permanent thing... but it is something to be very, very concerned about when the survival of the staff and progress of the program over the next couple of years will be dependent on so many young, underdeveloped players.

Your argument: There are notable problems. There will likely be more problems next year. If Jancek can't make chicken salad with this, how can we expect chicken salad next year?

Pretty much. People keep harping on "speed". D's look fast when they ARE fast. They also look fast when they are coached to be in position, take good angles, and play their responsibilities. In addition to any lacking of raw speed... this D is often out of position and doesn't play solid "responsibility" defense.

It is a completely different argument than: Jancek has proven he is horrible, stupid, and can never be successful.

I am not ready to say that... but I see little reason for the faith some are putting in him. His results at Cincy were against marginal competition. He was fired because the D at UGA performed poorly while he was on staff. Now UT is last in the SEC in D... and has been flat run over 3 games in a row.

My stance: It may be bad next year too due to the problems you listed. But due to the problems you listed this year and next, I'm not prepared to make a final decision about Jancek yet.

It should not be as bad as it is now... so from that basis... it should be "better" next year if it is going to get better. I am not talking about someone just being more talented. I am talking about things directly related to coaching.

To say: There are problems, there will be worse next year, so obviously Jancek sucks... is an irrational leap of logic. (I'm not sure that's the leap you've made by the way...)

No. I am saying he has undercoached the available talent this year and cannot continue to do that going forward.... including next year.

My response was to someone who claimed next year WOULD be better. Jancek will have to do a much better job to make that happen though.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I would agree with the above but would add that I believe he has underperformed the available talent. That isn't necessarily a permanent thing... but it is something to be very, very concerned about when the survival of the staff and progress of the program over the next couple of years will be dependent on so many young, underdeveloped players.

Pretty much. People keep harping on "speed". D's look fast when they ARE fast. They also look fast when they are coached to be in position, take good angles, and play their responsibilities. In addition to any lacking of raw speed... this D is often out of position and doesn't play solid "responsibility" defense.

I am not ready to say that... but I see little reason for the faith some are putting in him. His results at Cincy were against marginal competition. He was fired because the D at UGA performed poorly while he was on staff. Now UT is last in the SEC in D... and has been flat run over 3 games in a row.

It should not be as bad as it is now... so from that basis... it should be "better" next year if it is going to get better. I am not talking about someone just being more talented. I am talking about things directly related to coaching.



No. I am saying he has undercoached the available talent this year and cannot continue to do that going forward.... including next year.

My response was to someone who claimed next year WOULD be better. Jancek will have to do a much better job to make that happen though.

I'd say we're really close to agreement on this, as usual. Note that we're looking at a probable disagreement in another thread.

Oh and edit: I'll lean to the side of learning curve for now. Remember, this squad has seen 3 DCs in 3 years. The problems with position and responsibilities could just as well be on the player side, as the coaching side. In IT, there are a several places where data can be garbled-- one is with the sender, the other is with the receiver.

 

[BearCat204]

You keep assuming that you are telling the "facts" and that you know the "truth". All that you have is an opinion just like everyone else, except you seem to think yours is far superior than anyone.

There's one person in this thread who is referring to others as idiots or morons when they dont agree with their opinion.........

 

[Orange_Crush]

There's one person in this thread who is referring to others as idiots or morons when they dont agree with their opinion.........

Well, another is arguing with his brother's kids about the invented homosexual relationships of people he's never met.

 

[soda23]

OK let's fire him over giving up 24 pts to South Alabama who happens to be a pretty decent team. I would let him recruit a few better players on defense and then make a decision.

Really ? If you call next to last in the Sun Belt , ahead of only Ga State ,decent you would be correct

 

[Orange_Crush]

Sjt, (I'm having problems with multi-quotes for some reason, but) as I relived some history last night, I saw that you made some statements a couple of years ago that may have some bearing on some of your statements in this thread about quality of coaching vs player performance on the field.

I'm not attacking of trying to rub anything in your fact. I'd truly like for you to comment on your change of worldview.

Post pending...

:hi:

 

[Orange_Crush]

Your most recent thoughts...

I would agree with the above but would add that I believe he has underperformed the available talent. That isn't necessarily a permanent thing... but it is something to be very, very concerned about when the survival of the staff and progress of the program over the next couple of years will be dependent on so many young, underdeveloped players.

Pretty much. People keep harping on "speed". D's look fast when they ARE fast. They also look fast when they are coached to be in position, take good angles, and play their responsibilities. In addition to any lacking of raw speed... this D is often out of position and doesn't play solid "responsibility" defense.

I am not ready to say that... but I see little reason for the faith some are putting in him. His results at Cincy were against marginal competition. He was fired because the D at UGA performed poorly while he was on staff. Now UT is last in the SEC in D... and has been flat run over 3 games in a row.

It should not be as bad as it is now... so from that basis... it should be "better" next year if it is going to get better. I am not talking about someone just being more talented. I am talking about things directly related to coaching.



No. I am saying he has undercoached the available talent this year and cannot continue to do that going forward.... including next year.

My response was to someone who claimed next year WOULD be better. Jancek will have to do a much better job to make that happen though.

Historical arguments:

No. Is happy with the current state of the program... including the coaches. I would say they have quite a bit more vested in the program than YOU DO.

The coaches aren't coaching the OL to get knocked backwards by guys who are 50 lbs lighter... you can coach a guy all you want but when the ball is snapped he has to actually do it.

You're no "idiot"? Then explain why you continue to ignore the fact that UT has the 2nd most pass attempts per game in the SEC and the 2nd fewest sacks allowed. Last year, UT was 3rd in attempts but last in sackes allowed. That isn't just improvement.... that is DRAMATIC improvement. But you don't want to hear that because it doesn't agree with your bias.

UT's run blocking stinks. It isn't just the OL's. The WR's and TE's are NOT sealing the corners. The FB play has been spotty.

But the thing you cannot seem to get through your skull is that EVERY OL could have improved over last year but STILL make enough mistakes at various times to kill the run game. Rivera may become a good TE... but he isn't Stocker. The WR's certainly do not have the experience or blocking ability of Jones and Moore. I never thought much of Shaw... but he wasn't getting knocked into the backfield.


This "could" be a coaching problem but considering they have had success elsewhere... it is more likely a player problem.

This is a joke right? This thread started with you assuming that YOU were omniscient and thus able to discern that the whole problem was coaching... Now you want to whine when someone smacks you down for not knowing what you're talking about?

According to you the "arrogant" guy is the one who admits what he does not know... rather than the guy who claims to know something he clearly has no ability to know? I know that Dooley got the job just under 2 years ago because it was in such bad condition that several others said "Thanks, but no thanks". I know that Dooley inherited one of the worst roster situations imaginable in a conference with no forgiveness. I KNOW that when you start from scratch training people you don't get smooth, steady improvement. Improvement comes in fits and starts and is often very difficult to see though it is happening. I KNOW the kinds of players on the team, the lack of depth, the plague of injuries... He mo. I didn't say that. I said you cannot evaluate the coaches by this particular team. Improving the record will ultimately be THE ONLY important factor... but that time is not now. Overall, yes. But not in '07, '95, '96, '97, '98... You do realize that before his one good season at Michigan State Saban was about to be fired, right? He "escaped" MSU to a desperate LSU program coming off a series of bad coaches... Archer, Hallman, and Dinardo had pretty much flopped. [Editorial: This is dangerously close to the 'Saban's First Year' argument you are deriding people for repeatedly making now. - OC]

Success is measured by an objective standard- winning games.

So is improvement- making plays consistently. You are not in a position nor do you have the knowledge to make the assessment about improvement... and probably do not even understand the standards. I don't have to guess at this... you make it abundantly clear in your emotional, irrational tirades.

Bottom line: I am not saying the coaches are any good. I don't know. I do know that YOU don't know either.

I am making an assessment based entirely on results WITHOUT assuming I am enough of a "genius" to know how the blame gets divided up.

I am dealing only with the objective facts that we know... you are assuming you know much more than you do... GENIUS.

UT's best DB is Waggner. He's playing out of position because he's the best S UT has... and he isn't a safety. That really should tell you all you need to know. [Editorial: I'm not positive it was you, but I think it was, who earlier in this thread indicated that people playing different positions than their natural one on defense shouldn't be a problem, and that Chavis had success with it?]

Again... Not to throw things up at you with bad intentions. But it's striking to me that you are arguing against your former, reasoned, approach to judging improvement.

:hi:

(Edited for verbiage and editorial color)