Westboro meets it's match.

#54
#54
Westboro has the right to express their views, but the way they express them have ramifications. I don't think I could restrain myself if it were one of my family members. That's me being honest. I would gladly face the legal consequences for my actions. I don't think any jury that would convict someone for that. Mental anguish/temporary insanity defenses are a good possibilty.

I am not saying they don't have the right to protest. They should just be prepared to face the ramifications if they choose to protest in this manner. I know a lot of you think this is a simple call, but it isn't. One only has true freedom if they stand up for someone's rights to express the total opposite view of your own. Westboro is detestable. Their tactics are less than classless. But, in this country, they are free to express themselves. Just as I am free to confront them verbally about their views, and physically if I am willing to face the consequences of doing so. Freedom isn't easy.

Just to counter the Westboro wackos a bit and in the spirit of Memorial Day: I am very greatful to all those that have laid the ultimate sacrifice on the altar of freedom. God bless their families that are left behind. Thanks to all those who have served so that we have the freedom to discuss this. And, thank you to all those that continue to serve to protect these freedoms. May God bless and keep you all!
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#55
#55
VolnStarkville said:
Available options to you at the time.
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I could have very easily shot him with my M4 or M9. I could have kicked his a**. I could have made sure that he fell, face first, onto the steel-grate steps at the back of the MRAP.

The options in that situation are pretty limitless. Detainees can get roughed up in a variety of ways as they are "simply being transported".
 
#56
#56
therealUT said:
I could have very easily shot him with my M4 or M9. I could have kicked his a**. I could have made sure that he fell, face first, onto the steel-grate steps at the back of the MRAP.

The options in that situation are pretty limitless. Detainees can get roughed up in a variety of ways as they are "simply being transported".
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So you are content with how things turned out? I'm honestly not being antagonistic in any way. Very curious.
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#57
#57
VolnStarkville said:
So you are content with how things turned out? I'm honestly not being antagonistic in any way. Very curious.
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I am not content with the fact that I lost Soldiers. I am content with the fact that we did not exact extra-judiciary punishment.
 
#58
#58
therealUT said:
I am not content with the fact that I lost Soldiers. I am content with the fact that we did not exact extra-judiciary punishment.
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I saw you mention Pluto awhile back. You ever spend any time on Uranium, Senators, Sword, etc? Just curious about where your AO was.
 
#59
#59
Bill Braske said:
I saw you mention Pluto awhile back. You ever spend any time on Uranium, Senators, Sword, etc? Just curious about where your AO was.
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In 2006-2007, our BN FOB was Rustamiyah and all of our companies were working out of COPs throughout New Baghdad.

In 2009-2010, we were working out of Al Siniyah Air Base (formerly FOB Summerall) at Bayji, just north of Tikrit.
 
#60
#60
therealUT said:
In 2006-2007, our BN FOB was Rustamiyah and all of our companies were working out of COPs throughout New Baghdad.

In 2009-2010, we were working out of Al Siniyah Air Base (formerly FOB Summerall) at Bayji, just north of Tikrit.
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Right on. Spent very little time there, but the Sadr City/New Baghdad areas are definitely interesting. Ha, most missions to other areas were kind of boring after that.

If memory serves, Summerall was right off of Hershey on the left, never stopped there though.

Anyway man, respect.
 
#61
#61
Bill Braske said:
Right on. Spent very little time there, but the Sadr City/New Baghdad areas are definitely interesting. Ha, most missions to other areas were kind of boring after that.

If memory serves, Summerall was right off of Hershey on the left, never stopped there though.

Anyway man, respect.
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Correct on Summerall, right off the S. Hershey bypass.
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#64
#64
Lexvol said:
Btw I consider myself a Christian. Jesus and I will talk after the last ass is kicked. Won't be the first or the last time such a conversation will occur.
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Same here.
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#65
#65
Lexvol said:
Btw I consider myself a Christian. Jesus and I will talk after the last ass is kicked. Won't be the first or the last time such a conversation will occur.
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Right on. There are many things I will defend, my family and our military are on the top of that list. If I need to put my hands on someone to do so, I will
 
#66
#66
VolsByNature said:
Right on. There are many things I will defend, my family and our military are on the top of that list. If I need to put my hands on someone to do so, I will
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What are you defending these people from? Insults, correct? They are certainly not breaking into your house to rape your wife and daughters and flay you alive.
 
#67
#67
Insults? You consider people showing up to a family or friends funeral to spew hate at the dead and the family, an insult? Much more than an insult, sir. The mlitary deserves repect and the citizens who they fight and die for should fight for their respect as they have fought for our freedom, and rights.

And from a followers point of view, it is also dishonorable. I find it very offensive that they call themselves Christians.

If I can remember correctly you are former military, right? If I am correct and you can look over these putrid, disgusting people, than I have mad respect for your will.

Both my brother and grandfather fought and died in war. Not wanting an pity, just for thought that could explain my blood boiling at the sound of "Westboro"
 
#68
#68
VolsByNature said:
Insults? You consider people showing up to a family or friends funeral to spew hate at the dead and the family, an insult? Much more than an insult, sir. The mlitary deserves repect and the citizens who they fight and die for should fight for their respect as they have fought for our freedom, and rights.

And from a followers point of view, it is also dishonorable. I find it very offensive that they call themselves Christians.

If I can remember correctly you are former military, right? If I am correct and you can look over these putrid, disgusting people, than I have mad respect for your will.

Both my brother and grandfather fought and died in war. Not wanting an pity, just for thought that could explain my blood boiling at the sound of "Westboro"
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It is still nothing more than an insult.
 
#70
#70
Actually, this case is fascinating. It does raise some universal philosophical questions.

How far, exactly, does freedom of speech extend?

What is the nature of justice?

My initial take on the article was this was an outstanding example of authentic democracy in real action. Laws are certainly important, a foundation of civilization, but far, far more important is a trial by jury. A jury has the right, nay the responsibility, to shoot the finger to any law on the books when it feels justice has not been done. In this case, although it didn't make it to the courtroom, the assembled crowd used their perogative to ensure a kind of democratic justice was done. I want to agree with Weezy and Lex on this one. Why do we need the cops and courts when two guys give each other black eyes outside a bar? Or in this case, the member of a hate group getting an ass whuppin' behind the woodshed for behaviour that is bang out of order by any societal norm. In many ways, this was far better (and shorter term) justice than the courts could deliver.

But then I think about the racially motivated violence, certainly not something of the Jim Crow past either, Rodney King is only the most famous of an all too common an occurence. And not just police violence. Where does one draw the line? I think of the people who have applauded the use of torture in the GWoT, despite its obvious barbarism (and it doesn't get results either). I think about the fascists in the Southern Cone and South Africa who decided who the "undesirables" were. These are some very, very deep questions.

therealUT's very gripping story is about 1,000 light years on the other end of the spectrum with little to no applicability in this case, but I salute him and his subordinates restraint with their prisoner. He and his people found themselves in what is truly a character defining situation, one few of us ever get to experience, and they came through bravely and virtuous.
 
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#71
#71
I believe that the Founding Fathers wanted everyone to be able to express an opinion or idea without the fear of persecution, in regards to how free speech is setup. I don't believe this applies to hate mongering speeches and baseless protesting by a rather poorly grounded church in Kansas. The fact that this church even does this is simply baffling to any Christian who knows anything about the New Covenant.
 
#72
#72
g8terh8ter_eric said:
I believe that the Founding Fathers wanted everyone to be able to express an opinion or idea without the fear of persecution, in regards to how free speech is setup. I don't believe this applies to hate mongering speeches and baseless protesting by a rather poorly grounded church in Kansas. The fact that this church even does this is simply baffling to any Christian who knows anything about the New Covenant.
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Isn't made up mostly of the greater Phelps family? One family hardly constitutes a church in my opinion.
 
#74
#74
That's correct, it's 70 or so people, mostly phelps family. I don't think any religious organizations recognize them.
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#75
#75
Westboro was a "no show up" in Joplin yesterday. Stories of tractor trailer and motorcycle bands delaying them enroute accompanied the anti protestors who lined Range Line road in the southern half of the city.

An unconfirmed report had a WBC member pepper sprayed by local law enforcement while physically engaged with an anti protestor. No arrests were reported or logged.
 
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