Westbrook Gone

[VolBall09]

Thank you! The new coach may politely show some of these players and their parents the door! Karma is a bitch sometimes!

The way you speak about these 18-21 year old women is disgusting. You don't know them from Adam and you make personal attacks on their character on this forum every day. Disgusting. If you think Eva Westbrook is the last parent we will ever have to deal with causing a stink on social media you're fooling yourself. The game and the world have changed, that's only going to get worse. The best coaches in the country have adapted to that, changed how they address players and changed how they recruit to accommodate the way the landscape has changed.

That whole situation could have been prevented by a strong minded coach who takes care of drama before it becomes public drama. Holly had no ability to keep things in house and managed her teams and their parents very poorly.

If you want to make a personal evaluation of their game, playing skills or on court attitude, be my guest. But save the personal attacks for yourself, no place for that here.

 

[LA Vol]

UT has been having player and parent issues for years, and that's because of Holly and the way she ran the program. The HCs that don't have those kinds of issues set boundaries right up front, for the good of the team and the player. No player is above the team, and team rules are not selectively enforced. Drama diverts focus, so you don't see much of it in championship programs. We've seen a lot of it lately at UT, and it's the staff's place to nip that and get everybody wanting the same thing-- to win.

 

[lvocd]

Saddened to read that Evina is transferring, tho

I wish everyone would get the facts before concluding that it's a done deal that Evina is transferring. It's wrong (and harmful) to continue to post this.

Evina has placed herself in the "transfer portal," which is NOT the same thing as "is transferring." Placing oneself in the portal simply means that I am wisely looking at all my options and taking the necessary steps to abide by NCAA rules in doing so.

Evina has NOT necessarily decided to transfer but has made herself eligible for doing so if, in the end, that's what she chooses to do. Please don't talk about this as if it's a done deal. She deserves better than that!

 

[volman128]

I'm sure she's leaving. Her mom went on FB and said as much a couple months ago.

The points about her parents being meddlesome and whiny are valid. Her mom can't stay away from getting into arguments with fans on social media.

 

[PG1]

They way you speak about these 18-21 year old women is disgusting. You don't know them from Adam and you make personal attacks on their character on this forum every day. Disgusting. If you think Eva Westbrook is the last parent we will ever have to deal with causing a stink on social media you're fooling yourself. The game and the world have changed, that's only going to get worse. The best coaches in the country have adapted to that, changed how they address players and changed how they recruit to accommodate the way the landscape has changed.

That whole situation could have been prevented by a strong minded coach who takes care of drama before it becomes public drama. Holly had no ability to keep things in house and managed her teams and their parents very poorly.

If you want to make a personal evaluation of their game, playing skills or on court attitude, be my guest. But save the personal attacks for yourself, no place for that here.

Oh Lordy I sure did not mean to hurt your feelings at my age I can’t see what I type on this computer thingy! But I can’t see where this post was attacking their character! I will work on my manners! I am very sorry!

 

[madtownvol]

Just an opinion, but Horston may be the best player Holly recruited in her entire tenure as head coach.

That optimistic forecast is always made about Holly's incoming classes and then when these players join the program, mysteriously they become lazy, prima donna whiners who are overrated and need to be chased from the program so Holly can finally bring in the "right" kind of player.

We will never know (thankfully) but Horston might have been the next one to be vilified.

 

[lvocd]

I'm sure she's leaving. Her mom went on FB and said as much a couple months ago.

The points about her parents being meddlesome and whiny are valid. Her mom can't stay away from getting into arguments with fans on social media.

It would be extremely difficult to have a child, to love that child with all your heart, and then sit back quietly while hordes of complete strangers verbally abuse her on public forums. Put yourself in any parents' shoes. Adult coaches who are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars (or millions for some) a year are a different story. They are being paid extremely well, and taking public criticism is just part of their jobs. But kids? No. Fans like those who are constantly attacking players as if they have no feelings cross the line of decency BIG TIME, and I honestly can't blame parents for being upset.

Fact is, Tennessee fans are among the WORST for going way too far in their criticisms because they often come across as intensely personal and so viciously disrespectful that they could very well seem threatening to young people and their parents. Fans like these are unwittingly harming young people when they are relentlessly, publicly "just being honest" in the mean and hurtful way so many fans do it, IMO.

Shame.

 

[TnScooby]

I absolutely love to hear this.
I hope they hire Katelyn Jenner.
And if you say Im not a UT fan because I wont root for Pat Summitt's program then so be it.
You're entitled to your opinion.

I'd root for Al Qaeda first.

IMHO Just an absolutely pathetic comment..

 

[Coach Jumper]

Who is the WM you are referring to, Jumper?

Wes Moore

 

[volman128]

Parents need to stay off social media. Period. The end. Fans ARE the program and most have been part of the program long before they or their child has been. I've said this about parents for the longest time. Don't send you kid to a high profile school as an athlete if you can't stay off social media and can't keep from interjecting yourself. I don't personally blame Evina for most anything and disagree with most all that was said about her by fans (also don't have a problem with what she said post-UCLA), but when you're part of college sports, especially at a high profile school, it comes with a certain amount of scrutiny. Nobody is making their kid even play college sports, and nobody is making them get online and read any of it. Sorry, but I don't feel sorry for them.

It's not about "complete strangers verbally abusing" anyone. Her mom has a tendency of making a fool out of herself on social media and was like that before she even got to UT.

 

[T_Vol376]

It would be extremely difficult to have a child, to love that child with all your heart, and then sit back quietly while hordes of complete strangers verbally abuse her on public forums. Put yourself in any parents' shoes. Adult coaches who are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars (or millions for some) a year are a different story. They are being paid extremely well, and taking public criticism is just part of their jobs. But kids? No. Fans like those who are constantly attacking players as if they have no feelings cross the line of decency BIG TIME, and I honestly can't blame parents for being upset.

Fact is, Tennessee fans are among the WORST for going way too far in their criticisms because they often come across as intensely personal and so viciously disrespectful that they could very well seem threatening to young people and their parents. Fans like these are unwittingly harming young people when they are relentlessly, publicly "just being honest" in the mean and hurtful way so many fans do it, IMO.

Shame.

Parents could choose not to be a part of fan groups and could stay off message boards. Mimi’s dad and Zaay’s dad were in a FB group I was in and wisely left. Now if people contact them directly, that’s not something a parent can help... but if they join these groups they have to know at some point their kid will get criticized... Kind of like me coming on here expecting everybody to be kind.

 

[volman128]

Parents could choose not to be a part of fan groups and could stay off message boards. Mimi’s dad and Zaay’s dad were in a FB group I was in and wisely left. Now if people contact them directly, that’s not something a parent can help... but if they join these groups they have to know at some point their kid will get criticized... Kind of like me coming on here expecting everybody to be kind.

I agree with this.

Bashaara Graves' and especially Jasmine Jones' moms were notorious for not being able to stay away from message boards and social media and were constantly getting into arguments with fans. I couldn't stand being on The Summitt in those days because Maria expected us to walk on eggshells as to not offend them - despite us being paying customers (at the time) and many of us having been there for many years. JJ's mom was particularly confrontational and felt she knew everything because she had played basketball at Alabama. In hindsight, their presence was a big factor in me deciding to not post there anymore.

Honestly it's been an issue with softball for years. I jokingly say sometimes thew new crop of basketball parents remind me of softball and baseball parents.

 

[Coach Jumper]

You have my attention. What is it that these players want? What coaches?

And not meaning this in a smart-aleck way. Truly want to know.

Cincy,

• They don't want a friend,,they want to be coached
• they don't care about the "name" of the coach,,only that the coach knows more than they do and knows how to get more out of them
• they don't want to lose a game because of coaching
• They want to get better each year
• they want to win
• they want a "game" coach who will save their butts when they look disoriented on the floor
• they want discipline
• they want what all players want,,,substantial growth year after year
• they want to run an actual offense
• they don't want to be embarrassed any more

In essence, they want a coach who wants the best out of them and can get it.

They're NOT Prima Donna's and don't want to be treated like they are.

But they are Primo-basketballers and do want the expectations and accolades they got before they got to UT to continue

 

[Lucy]

I chewed on this all last evening and am finally calm enough to post something I hopefully won’t regret.
Evina is an 19/20 year old young woman trying to grow up and find her way. She is a good student, a leader on our basketball team and the athletic department ( UT Rep for SEC athletes council).

She is undoubtedly disappointed with this past year and with a mic and camera stuck in her face after a disheartening loss made comments that while perhaps not media savvy were what she was thinking at a sad time. She has also at times looked frustrated during games. You can imagine that after so many close losses she would feel here we go again. This looks like a competitor to me not a spoiled brat.

I find the vicious criticisms of her on this thread to be unconscionable. I wonder how may of the posters that have sought to decimate her character, actions and intent could have passed a similar scrutiny of their 19/20 year old self? I know I certainly would have been found lacking based on some posters “standards”.
Regarding her mother, what else did anyone expect? Women are not compared to Mother Bears for nothing. Her cub was attacked and she responded. Good for her and I hope she lives a long happy life having her daughter’s back. This is how it should be.

The next time some of you feel the need to tear someone down please feel free to rant about me. To quote a coach “I am a grown a** woman” sic and I can take whatever you want
Hand out. Leave the kids alone!

Finally, I hope Evina and all of the current and signed Lady Vols come back. They seem like a great group of kids and at this very tough time they deserve nothing from LV fans but encouragement and support.

 

[madtownvol]

Parents need to stay off social media. Period. The end. Fans ARE the program and most have been part of the program long before they or their child has been. I've said this about parents for the longest time. Don't send you kid to a high profile school as an athlete if you can't stay off social media and can't keep from interjecting yourself. I don't personally blame Evina for most anything and disagree with most all that was said about her by fans (also don't have a problem with what she said post-UCLA), but when you're part of college sports, especially at a high profile school, it comes with a certain amount of scrutiny. Nobody is making their kid even play college sports, and nobody is making them get online and read any of it. Sorry, but I don't feel sorry for them.

It's not about "complete strangers verbally abusing" anyone. Her mom has a tendency of making a fool out of herself on social media and was like that before she even got to UT.

I agree with your statement and have said much the same in other posts. Parents need to dissociate because when their kids go to college, their student-athletes are entering into an adult landscape where they have to learn how to manage (and ignore) the social media noise.

Nonetheless, the noise around this program and players has gotten fairly toxic. The segment of fans who were determined (and still are in fact) to defend Holly's job performance at any cost, have been vicious toward scapegoated players, mostly Evina but Davis, Zaay have also been targets.
You are correct no one makes these people play college sports but they are still student-athletes, not professionals, and they should not have to endure the character assassination that is going on right now, check out the LVs FB page and the anti-Evina diatribes. It is one thing to say, Evina makes too many turnovers; it is another to call her chicken-sh%t and other vile epithets. These keyboard warriors need to find some other way to express their frustration than these drive-by character assassination posts. We have our share of these types on this board as well.

Fans are just too wrapped in the "legacy" of CPS which, on the one side results, in Holly being demonized as this greedy, selfish, monster who was joyously destroying the program when in reality, she was a devoted compatriot of CPS who was just in over her head.

The other camp will defend Holly by saying it was all because of those stinkin' no good, rotten players.

Such diatribes ignore the simple fact that bad coaching will make good players look bad (or like underachievers). These student-athletes are not whiney prima donnas, or self-entitled millennials, or kids who believe they get a trophy for just showing up (Given their accomplishments on the court and in the classroom, that accusation is really over the top). They are hard working players who need coaching and a better system in which they CAN succeed.

LVs basketball is a sports team not a morality play. The team needs a better coach; the players need to perform better and that is that.

 

[mcannon1]

I chewed on this all last evening and am finally calm enough to post something I hopefully won’t regret.
Evina is an 19/20 year old young woman trying to grow up and find her way. She is a good student, a leader on our basketball team and the athletic department ( UT Rep for SEC athletes council).

She is undoubtedly disappointed with this past year and with a mic and camera stuck in her face after a disheartening loss made comments that while perhaps not media savvy were what she was thinking at a sad time. She has also at times looked frustrated during games. You can imagine that after so many close losses she would feel here we go again. This looks like a competitor to me not a spoiled brat.

I find the vicious criticisms of her on this thread to be unconscionable. I wonder how may of the posters that have sought to decimate her character, actions and intent could have passed a similar scrutiny of their 19/20 year old self? I know I certainly would have been found lacking based on some posters “standards”.
Regarding her mother, what else did anyone expect? Women are not compared to Mother Bears for nothing. Her cub was attacked and she responded. Good for her and I hope she lives a long happy life having her daughter’s back. This is how it should be.

The next time some of you feel the need to tear someone down please feel free to rant about me. To quote a coach “I am a grown a** woman” sic and I can take whatever you want
Hand out. Leave the kids alone!

Finally, I hope Evina and all of the current and signed Lady Vols come back. They seem like a great group of kids and at this very tough time they deserve nothing from LV fans but encouragement and support.

Thank you. Well said.

 

[VolBall09]

I agree with your statement and have said much the same in other posts. Parents need to dissociate because when their kids go to college because those student-athletes are entering into an adult landscape where they have to learn how to ignore the social media noise.

Nonetheless, the noise around this program and players has gotten fairly toxic. The segment of fans who were determined (and still are in fact) to defend Holly's job performance at any cost, have been vicious toward scapegoated players, mostly Evina but Davis, Zaay have also been targets.
You are correct no one makes these people play college sports but they are still student-athletes, not professionals, and they should not have to endure the character assassination that is going on right now, check out the LVs FB page and the anti-Evina diatribes. It is one thing to say, Evina makes too many turnovers; it is another to call her chicken-sh%t and other vile epithets. These keyboard need to find some other way to express their frustration that these drive-by posts. We have our share of these types on this board as well.

Fans are just too wrapped in the "legacy" of CPS which, on the one side results, in Holly being demonized as this greedy, selfish, monster who was joyously destroying the program when in reality, she was a devoted compatriot of CPS who was just in over her head.

The other camp will defend Holly by saying it was all because of those stinkin' no good, rotten players.

Such diatribes ignore the simple fact that bad coaching will make good players look bad (or like underachievers). These student-athletes are not whiney prima donnas, or self-entitled millennials, or kids who believe they get a trophy for just showing (Given their accomplishments on the court and in the classroom, that accusation is really over the top). They are hard working players who need coaching and better system in which they CAN succeed.

LVs basketball is a sports team not a morality play. The team needs a better coach; the players need to perform better and that is that.

As usual, a wonderful, thoughtful and coherent post. Thanks for your contributions Madtown, I know we don't always agree, but I love the way you conduct yourself on here. You're a great example.

 

[SGMVols]

Just an opinion, but Horston may be the best player Holly recruited in her entire tenure as head coach.

She’s the best player to sign here since Candace Parker.

 

[lvocd]

Have you ever really stopped to consider just how obnoxiously easy it is for people who have no child in the verbal crosshairs of rude and obnoxious fans to come on here and suggest how darn easy it should be for parents to just stay away from social media?

Honestly, I don't understand how some people can be so thick.

 

[Smallvol#1]

It would be extremely difficult to have a child, to love that child with all your heart, and then sit back quietly while hordes of complete strangers verbally abuse her on public forums. Put yourself in any parents' shoes. Adult coaches who are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars (or millions for some) a year are a different story. They are being paid extremely well, and taking public criticism is just part of their jobs. But kids? No. Fans like those who are constantly attacking players as if they have no feelings cross the line of decency BIG TIME, and I honestly can't blame parents for being upset.

Fact is, Tennessee fans are among the WORST for going way too far in their criticisms because they often come across as intensely personal and so viciously disrespectful that they could very well seem threatening to young people and their parents. Fans like these are unwittingly harming young people when they are relentlessly, publicly "just being honest" in the mean and hurtful way so many fans do it, IMO.

Shame.

I’ll bite.

1) I’ve always said if you have to jump, land on the coaches, for one thing they are being paid. It would be nice if people acted decently, but apparently that is beyond many’s capabilities. Leave the players alone. Lots of reasons: age (17-21 year olds are not adults, might be legal age, but are NOT adults); they are not being paid (please don’t tell how much the scolarship is worth); we don’t know what they are going through physically, mentally, emotionally (remember Chris Lofton?); just don’t jump the kids.

2) A parent (of an athlete) who is active on sports social media is in the same catagory as a doctor who treats himself.

3) and this one hurts, but I’ve posted it before so I’ll suck up and say it again. Several years ago I visited the ucon board a few times. They have some mod named Big Nan and posters DO NOT talk about the players. That’s just it; no ifs, ands, or buts; and certainly no, “I’m just stating the truth and it needs to be said.” Ucon board does it right (forgive me). I believe Baylor has a similar policy. I don’t know, but I am on their board some and they do not jump the kids. @BUBear may know if such a policy exists.

Of course, success helps manners....when Pat was alive I never saw the sheer meanness and rudeness that is often now present in the LV forum. I’m all for freedom of speech, but there’s ways, times, and places to express that freedom.

 

[T_Vol376]

Have you ever really stopped to consider just how obnoxiously easy it is for people who have no child in the verbal crosshairs of rude and obnoxious fans to come on here and suggest how darn easy it should be for parents to just stay away from social media?

Honestly, I don't understand how some people can be so thick.

Not saying it would be easy but I would try. I know if I saw some of the things said about Evina being said about my child, you best believe I would come out roaring just like Eva did. Therefore, I would try not to subject myself to it.

 

[OldNSlow]

You have my attention. What is it that these players want? What coaches?

And not meaning this in a smart-aleck way. Truly want to know.

I am not saying any player has said any certain coach, but do not for one minute think they do not know who the top dogs are and they think we are a top school. It will have to be a big name to garner respect. But what do I know, I am a troll, liar etc according to the side who wants it their way.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

I am not saying any player has said any certain coach, but do not for one minute think they do not know who the top dogs are and they think we are a top school. It will have to be a big name to garner respect. But what do I know, I am a troll, liar etc according to the side who wants it their way.

Well, if UT does NOT hire a coach the players respect, maybe they will pull a Missouri and threaten to go on strike in protest of the hire.

 

[Coach Jumper]

I chewed on this all last evening and am finally calm enough to post something I hopefully won’t regret.
Evina is an 19/20 year old young woman trying to grow up and find her way. She is a good student, a leader on our basketball team and the athletic department ( UT Rep for SEC athletes council).

She is undoubtedly disappointed with this past year and with a mic and camera stuck in her face after a disheartening loss made comments that while perhaps not media savvy were what she was thinking at a sad time. She has also at times looked frustrated during games. You can imagine that after so many close losses she would feel here we go again. This looks like a competitor to me not a spoiled brat.

I find the vicious criticisms of her on this thread to be unconscionable. I wonder how may of the posters that have sought to decimate her character, actions and intent could have passed a similar scrutiny of their 19/20 year old self? I know I certainly would have been found lacking based on some posters “standards”.
Regarding her mother, what else did anyone expect? Women are not compared to Mother Bears for nothing. Her cub was attacked and she responded. Good for her and I hope she lives a long happy life having her daughter’s back. This is how it should be.

The next time some of you feel the need to tear someone down please feel free to rant about me. To quote a coach “I am a grown a** woman” sic and I can take whatever you want
Hand out. Leave the kids alone!

Finally, I hope Evina and all of the current and signed Lady Vols come back. They seem like a great group of kids and at this very tough time they deserve nothing from LV fans but encouragement and support.

I have had athletes that had Evina's mentality: laser focus with an almost uncomfortable confidence

Losing tears them apart inside
...
Me too.

When I am at work, , , I can't stand unprofessionalism,
I abhor lazy
and I value my coworker's value by their work-ethic

Don't go nowhere E
Not yet

 

[OldNSlow]

So is Walz a coach the players are interested in? Can the program afford to hire a possible NCAA rules violator to keep the roster intact?

I agree that they truly don't have any sentiment tied to Pat but isn't some of her principles worth respecting? Again, not meaning this in a critical way.

Has Walz's program been on a NCAA violation list and has he been accused by the NCAA? I am missing something here? This is no shot at you, but fans think someone at Maryland tampered? With 0 proof?

Let me say this. Do you all really think we have clean hands in recruiting? I am even talking about from the time we became relevant? Serious question also.