What does it mean to be gay or lesbian?

Good points. Difference to me is that understanding dyslexia/autism, etc is about how to help those with it function better and the rest of us understand how to better relate with those people. Perhaps I am wrong, but I don't see gay in the same way wrt understanding.

I would disagree. As with climate change, our society has thrown science out the door with respect to all the alphabet behaviors. The narrative has been written. Which at best is ridiculous and at worst harmful to millions.

The behavior is abnormal. The next question is it abnormal and detrimental? Who is asking these questions? No one. Medical professionals by and large don’t touch this with a 10 foot pole. They just get in line.

This is likely going to cause tremendous harm. Not the harm you get when you touch a hot stove. The harm you see 30 years after you decided to spend too much of your life watching tv and eating junk food.
 
I would disagree. As with climate change, our society has thrown science out the door with respect to all the alphabet behaviors. The narrative has been written. Which at best is ridiculous and at worst harmful to millions.

The behavior is abnormal. The next question is it abnormal and detrimental? Who is asking these questions? No one. Medical professionals by and large don’t touch this with a 10 foot pole. They just get in line.

This is likely going to cause tremendous harm. Not the harm you get when you touch a hot stove. The harm you see 30 years after you decided to spend too much of your life watching tv and eating junk food.
If we are willing to make grand, long range assessments of impact on our society, may I offer how is this current issue different from previous cultural issues?
WRT to abnormal and normal...is the old testament Hebrew version of marriage normal and what we are doing is abnormal. Or, are we normal and OT Hebrew marriage was abnormal?

I understand where you are. I just think your points rooted in societal impact (especially societal impact when that society is free to make "bad" decisions) and abnormal vs normal are tangential to the topic at hand.
 
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If we are willing to make grand, long range assessments of impact on our society, may I offer how is this current issue different from previous cultural issues?
WRT to abnormal and normal...is the old testament Hebrew version of marriage normal and what we are doing is abnormal. Or, are we normal and OT Hebrew marriage was abnormal?

I understand where you are. I just think your points rooted in societal impact (especially societal impact when that society is free to make "bad" decisions) and abnormal vs normal are tangential to the topic at hand.

It is more than a cultural issue. It is a health issue. This is insanity that we are now ignoring health issues based on what is essentially bullying. I mean we study everything. You see the federal grants all the time for hundreds of stupid studies like “can pigeons distinguish between good and bad paintings”. Yet, look for a study on average lifespan for homosexuals. Why will you not see much? Do we not like the answer? Is that a positive approach to learning? Don’t study X, we might not like the answer we get?????

The behavior is abnormal. The left doesn’t even want that stated. I believe it is abnormal and detrimental. That certainly isn’t tolerable for debate in our current culture. That is scary.
 
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It is more than a cultural issue. It is a health issue. This is insanity that we are now ignoring health issues based on what is essentially bullying. I mean we study everything. You see the federal grants all the time for hundreds of stupid studies like “can pigeons distinguish between good and bad paintings”. Yet, look for a study on average lifespan for homosexuals. Why will you not see much? Do we not like the answer? Is that a positive approach to learning? Don’t study X, we might not like the answer we get?????

The behavior is abnormal. The left doesn’t even want that stated. I believe it is abnormal and detrimental. That certainly isn’t tolerable for debate in our current culture. That is scary.
We're debating it, here. We are being tolerated as we do so.

A health issue claim would need to be backed up with studies. I agree with you there.
I still cannot come to terms with discussion points rooted in what is or isn't normal. The baseline of normalcy has shifted a lot inside of different societies over several millennia.
 
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We're debating it, here. We are being tolerated as we do so.

A health issue claim would need to be backed up with studies. I agree with you there.
I still cannot come to terms with discussion points rooted in what is or isn't normal. The baseline of normalcy has shifted a lot inside of different societies over several millennia.

Yes, I don’t believe I was insinuating we have eliminated free speech in this country. But we have certainly tried to massage it. Have a child feeling transgender? Try to find a mental health provider that wants to work on that from the perspective that “transgender “ is a problem. The people that matter to this issue, aren’t debating it.
 
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It is more than a cultural issue. It is a health issue. This is insanity that we are now ignoring health issues based on what is essentially bullying. I mean we study everything. You see the federal grants all the time for hundreds of stupid studies like “can pigeons distinguish between good and bad paintings”. Yet, look for a study on average lifespan for homosexuals. Why will you not see much? Do we not like the answer? Is that a positive approach to learning? Don’t study X, we might not like the answer we get?????

The behavior is abnormal. The left doesn’t even want that stated. I believe it is abnormal and detrimental. That certainly isn’t tolerable for debate in our current culture. That is scary.
You better believe medical professionals have access to data concerning lifespans of gay people. My goodness, you must circulate in a tiny bubble. Social media has had huge influence upon you, as you often trot out fringe beliefs as some kind of evidence of normalcy. Of course, to get the fear mongering factor up, you project in an effort to trigger your fellow right wing echo chamber dwellers. In this forum, you're successful. Pat on the back for you, and a sativa infused cookie😃
 
You better believe medical professionals have access to data concerning lifespans of gay people. My goodness, you must circulate in a tiny bubble. Social media has had huge influence upon you, as you often trot out fringe beliefs as some kind of evidence of normalcy. Of course, to get the fear mongering factor up, you project in an effort to trigger your fellow right wing echo chamber dwellers. In this forum, you're successful. Pat on the back for you, and a sativa infused cookie😃

I have no social media accounts. FB, Twitter, instagram, nothing. I don’t watch cable news either. Air ball from you.

And what do these professionals in medicine tell you about these lifespans of gay people? That the behavior is irrelevant to lifespan?
 
Notice the Gen X trend line over the 9 years? That decrease is why I am saying choice in sexual expression is more in play than some are comfortable admitting. And, yes, there are some that are born with same sex attraction innately hard wired.
Gen X is mostly flat. Very small uptick actually.
Boomers are mostly flat too.

The pre-war generation has seen a decrease.

Millennials have seen a significant increase.
Gen Z has seen a very stark increase.
 
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Yes, I don’t believe I was insinuating we have eliminated free speech in this country. But we have certainly tried to massage it. Have a child feeling transgender? Try to find a mental health provider that wants to work on that from the perspective that “transgender “ is a problem. The people that matter to this issue, aren’t debating it.
Understood. I am a bit more optimistic than you when it comes to finding health providers who are not as malleable due to politically correct pressure. I know a pediatrician (not kiddiedoc) who does not fall in line lock step with the AAP and is willing to dialogue about what is healthiest overall for the child. He may be rare though.
 
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Understood. I am a bit more optimistic than you when it comes to finding health providers who are not as malleable due to politically correct pressure. I know a pediatrician (not kiddiedoc) who does not fall in line lock step with the AAP and is willing to dialogue about what is healthiest overall for the child. He may be rare though.

Theodoric of York?

4.22.1978_0.26.22.00-300x200.jpg


Uses leeches a lot.
 
Understood. I am a bit more optimistic than you when it comes to finding health providers who are not as malleable due to politically correct pressure. I know a pediatrician (not kiddiedoc) who does not fall in line lock step with the AAP and is willing to dialogue about what is healthiest overall for the child. He may be rare though.

I had a relative go thru this with a child for 4 years and had visits with multiple different mental health care providers. None addressed the transgender as the problem. It was all about making the family understand and do better.

In this particular point I am pointing at mental health providers. It is still easy to find pediatricians that do not abide by these beliefs.
 
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Gen X is mostly flat. Very small uptick actually.
Boomers are mostly flat too.

The pre-war generation has seen a decrease.

Millennials have seen a significant increase.
Gen Z has seen a very stark increase.
Yeah, I misread. I was referencing the boomer line.

The point is increases and decreases give credence to choice being a part of sexual expression. I don't believe it is all (please note the emphasis) due to born that way.
 
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I had a relative go thru this with a child for 4 years and had visits with multiple different mental health care providers. None addressed the transgender as the problem. It was all about making the family understand and do better.

In this particular point I am pointing at mental health providers. It is still easy to find pediatricians that do not abide by these beliefs.
Had to painful for the whole family.

What's the status now of that family and the child?
 
Had to painful for the whole family.

What's the status now of that family and the child?

It is terrible. These are close relatives and for perspective they are the opposite of me. Liberal, gay is fine, no big deal. They were crushed and still are by the transgender thing. They don’t believe in it and could not get a mental health provider to even acknowledge it as a problem.

I cannot even do a good job of describing the pain this has caused to them.
 
I have no social media accounts. FB, Twitter, instagram, nothing. I don’t watch cable news either. Air ball from you.

And what do these professionals in medicine tell you about these lifespans of gay people? That the behavior is irrelevant to lifespan?
You claim to have no social media accounts while posting on a social media account.🤣🤣🤣


Yep. You're encased in a tiny bubble, and that's cool. It seems you have your act together. Advice: Don't ever become somewhat deluded because of your personal success. Your opinions might not be popular among the middle 50%
 
You claim to have no social media accounts while posting on a social media account.🤣🤣🤣


Yep. You're encased in a tiny bubble, and that's cool. It seems you have your act together. Advice: Don't ever become somewhat deluded because of your personal success. Your opinions might not be popular among the middle 50%

Yes, this PF where the same 20 people talk everyday. I have been brainwashed by this echo chamber. That is surely what you meant by your original assertion. Can you lie to yourself that well?

I would not base my opinions on popularity.
 
You claim to have no social media accounts while posting on a social media account.🤣🤣🤣


Yep. You're encased in a tiny bubble, and that's cool. It seems you have your act together. Advice: Don't ever become somewhat deluded because of your personal success. Your opinions might not be popular among the middle 50%
You haven't been around long so I'll let you in on the big secret, we all agreed VN isn't social media. Does it make sense? No. Is it up for debate? No.
 
I had a relative go thru this with a child for 4 years and had visits with multiple different mental health care providers. None addressed the transgender as the problem. It was all about making the family understand and do better.

In this particular point I am pointing at mental health providers. It is still easy to find pediatricians that do not abide by these beliefs.
For you to continuously call it a mental disorder, you must have some detailed and nuanced scientific info stored in your brain. I'm thinking you have a MD. Correct? If so, lay out details as to why humans choose to get sexually aroused for same sex. I'm heterosexual and I get a woody for my female wife, without thought. You must have not been attentive in your genetics classes. Is that why you went to the Caribbean for medical school?
 
For you to continuously call it a mental disorder, you must have some detailed and nuanced scientific info stored in your brain. I'm thinking you have a MD. Correct? If so, lay out details as to why humans choose to get sexually aroused for same sex. I'm heterosexual and I get a woody for my female wife, without thought. You must have not been attentive in your genetics classes. Is that why you went to the Caribbean for medical school?
To be fair, your wife gives all of us woodys.
 
Yes, this PF where the same 20 people talk everyday. I have been brainwashed by this echo chamber. That is surely what you meant by your original assertion. Can you lie to yourself that well?

I would not base my opinions on popularity.
"Lie to yourself?" 😆😆😆 That's not left field material. It's the parking lot 1 mile away from the stadium material.

Owning up to being called out appropriate manner is far more classy than doubling down with some deluded bravado
 
For you to continuously call it a mental disorder, you must have some detailed and nuanced scientific info stored in your brain. I'm thinking you have a MD. Correct? If so, lay out details as to why humans choose to get sexually aroused for same sex. I'm heterosexual and I get a woody for my female wife, without thought. You must have not been attentive in your genetics classes. Is that why you went to the Caribbean for medical school?

Good pivot. Your last bit proved a terrible failure for you.

A behavior that produces significantly higher rates of alcoholism, drug abuse, suicide, etc would make a good candidate for mental disorder. Unless I am unaware of the benefits to these outcomes.
 
Good pivot. Your last bit proved a terrible failure for you.

A behavior that produces significantly higher rates of alcoholism, drug abuse, suicide, etc would make a good candidate for mental disorder. Unless I am unaware of the benefits to these outcomes.
Failure? Some detail and nuance please. Broad stroke generalizations are both a failure and uneducated
 

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