What I Learned from Plain English

#51
#51
n_huffhines said:
Much like Sessions and the AL town with the Tyson plant, the xenophobes are lying about another town they hold up as an example of immigration gone wrong.

Trump claimed Charleroi is overrun by gangs as it's getting destroyed by African and Haitian illegal immigration under Kamala. The reality is it was a sad, dying city revived by immigrants, and this started under Trump. They are largely legal and there is no spike in crime.

One townsperson claimed the Haitian market had a "no whites" sign. The truth was they had a sign that said, "Asian, African, and Caribbean food." People were offended that it didn't include American, and that's how fragile the xenophobes can be.

Paraphrasing, It's ridiculous to say that Haitians are ruining this town. At worst, you can complain they are taking it.

www.theringer.com

This Small Pennsylvania Town Explains the 2024 Election

Derek is joined by The Atlantic’s George Packer to take a look at the history of Charleroi, Pennsylvania, and how that history contains within it the story of the 2024 election
www.theringer.com www.theringer.com
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The evidence provided in this dialogue is that they interviewed a Haitian immigrant and he said the place was better than when he first got there.

Solid!
 
#52
#52
Some interesting, loosely related discussion at the end.

It used to be blue collar white males in towns like this were reliable D voters, but D's don't know how to talk to them. They have been made to feel like they are toxic. Biden could literally get a guy in this demo a union raise and they're still not gonna vote D because of the culture war. It's interesting that this came from the guest, who is not the same person who made a similar point in the thread OP.

The host then made the point that part of this is social media. He talked about how he and his wife have a ton in common, but if you scroll through their social media feeds it would seem like they don't have anything in common. He tied this into the idea that social media is making the culture war worse because our SM consumption is putting us in much bigger silos than what the real world does.
 
#53
#53
n_huffhines said:
Biden could literally get a guy in this demo a union raise and they're still not gonna vote D because of the culture war.
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Disparaging the views of everyone that disagrees with you as “the culture war” is a major part of that problem.

I’m not sure why you’re surprised that people vote for things other than “who will give me the most money”. That’s a good thing
 
#54
#54
Vol8188 said:
The evidence provided in this dialogue is that they interviewed a Haitian immigrant and he said the place was better than when he first got there.

Solid!
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He talked about the economic and population decline, among other things. You are such a waste of time.
 
#55
#55
i think he said 2,000 immigrants. So the poulation would have been down 60% in 20 years without them. It's only down b 1/8


Screenshot_20241101-193956_Chrome.jpg
 
#56
#56
n_huffhines said:
He talked about the economic and population decline, among other things. You are such a waste of time.
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Without any data showing economic improvement nor an improvement in crime data. Or did I overlook something?
 
#57
#57
n_huffhines said:
View attachment 693201
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Wow. Bringing in immigrants increases population. How did you discovery this hidden truth?

The town may have improved. But you seem to be focusing on the wrong thing.

Yes, Huff. Immigrants increase population. That’s not the question people are asking. No one is saying “hey, that town with all the immigrant…is their population up?”
 
#58
#58
Vol8188 said:
Without any data showing economic improvement nor an improvement in crime data. Or did I overlook something?
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He said "no spike in crime." Quoting town officials.

Imagine thinking 2,000 people added to your dying town doesn't grow the economy.

Pretend you are a propery owner....would you like to see your city go from 5,000 population to 2,000? Imagine what a 60% decline in population does to property value.

This is simple math on the economics stuff.

You are such a waste of time.
 
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#59
#59
Vol8188 said:
Wow. Bringing in immigrants increases population. How did you discovery this hidden truth?

The town may have improved. But you seem to be focusing on the wrong thing.

Yes, Huff. Immigrants increase population. That’s not the question people are asking. No one is saying “hey, that town with all the immigrant…is their population up?”
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It's about this town, not every town. This town was completely dying. I'm showing how dire the situation was.

You'd rather have a ghost town than immigrants.
 
#60
#60
n_huffhines said:
He said "no spike in crime." Quoting town officials.

Imagine thinking 2,000 people added to your dying town doesn't grow the economy.

Pretend you are a propery owner....would you like to see your city go from 5,000 population to 2,000? Imagine what a 60% decline in population does to property value.

This is simple math on the economics stuff.

You are such a waste of time.
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The data (the crime data) would be better than a random quote from a politician.

And the line “imagine thinking 2,000 people added to your economy doesn’t grow the economy”, is one of your dumbest lines yet. The question is never “will the total numbers increase”, but rather “will the per capita numbers increase”.

Increasing property value alone on a population that is likely primarily elderly people (that’s typically who is left over when small towns die), is still not a great argument.

I full support more immigration and I actually believe immigration improves, not harms, communities when done properly. But arguments of “the total economy will grow!”, “property values will go up”, “a random Haitian guy said it’s great”, or even worse “the total population will increase”….are possibly the worst arguments you could make for why it’s a net positive
 
#61
#61
n_huffhines said:
It's about this town, not every town. This town was completely dying. I'm showing how dire the situation was.

You'd rather have a ghost town than immigrants.
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You don’t know that the trend would have continued. Many areas experience similar declines and then level off. Harlan KY and surrounding areas would be examples of that. Eventually the economic incentives to stay (cheaper homes/taxes, ability to purchase more land, lack of population in general) will balance out to were it favors x number of people to stay.

So, no. I’m not convinced this town would just be completely empty if not for the magic of government intervention. That’s an insanely rare thing (probably not even a thing) on the East Coast
 
#62
#62
n_huffhines said:
He said "no spike in crime." Quoting town officials.

Imagine thinking 2,000 people added to your dying town doesn't grow the economy.

Pretend you are a propery owner....would you like to see your city go from 5,000 population to 2,000? Imagine what a 60% decline in population does to property value.

This is simple math on the economics stuff.

You are such a waste of time.
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2000 people that depend on the taxpayers dime doesn’t make life better for the taxpayer. Simple math.
 
#65
#65
@n_huffhines when listening to their argument about how this was going to be a “ghost town”….did you ever look into the size of the surrounding area?

Meaning, the county itself has over 200k people. If there’s a county of over 200k, unless this area is insanely isolated (like a 2 hour ferry ride to get to the other areas in the county), it would seem the odds of this town ever shrinking significantly lower than around 4K were incredibly slim.
 
#66
#66
Vol8188 said:
@n_huffhines when listening to their argument about how this was going to be a “ghost town”….did you ever look into the size of the surrounding area?

Meaning, the county itself has over 200k people. If there’s a county of over 200k, unless this area is insanely isolated (like a 2 hour ferry ride to get to the other areas in the county), it would seem the odds of this town ever shrinking significantly lower than around 4K were incredibly slim.
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You know how huff loves him some illegal invaders.
 
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#67
#67
C-south said:
You know how huff loves him some illegal invaders.
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They're not illegal. You guys would rather traffic in lies than make things better.

If it's so bad, why can't you guys tell the truth? There are immigrants everywhere. Why can't these shining examples of mass immigration gone wrong ever actually prove the point? Can't they find one city that has been ruined? There's gotta be one, right?

I'm dealing with people who are seriously arguing they'd rather devalue their home than pay higher property taxes.

IDK what it's like in that county, but my home has increased by over 200k in 6 years ("fkn Californians moving in!!!") and I hardly notice the difference in my property tax.
 
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#68
#68
n_huffhines said:
They're not illegal. You guys would rather traffic in lies than make things better.

If it's so bad, why can't you guys tell the truth? There are immigrants everywhere. Why can't these shining examples of mass immigration gone wrong ever actually prove the point? Can't they find one city that has been ruined? There's gotta be one.
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n_huffhines said:
They're not illegal. You guys would rather traffic in lies than make things better.

If it's so bad, why can't you guys tell the truth? There are immigrants everywhere. Why can't these shining examples of mass immigration gone wrong ever actually prove the point? Can't they find one city that has been ruined? There's gotta be one, right?
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#70
#70
n_huffhines said:
So your thesis is that immigrants ruined NY? Not bad government? Is NYC even ruined?
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Sure, the ultimate issue is policy. But the ultimate issue is always policy, regardless of the domain.

You can’t have both open borders and a giant welfare magnet. You have two massively contradictory policies.

But this is one example of mass immigration gone wrong. Did it completely destroy the city? No. Did it have a massive cost to the city and the citizens? 100%. And those not the appropriate questions to ask? Or does it only count if the city is absolute rubble?
 
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