What is CBJ's end game with QBs? Talking 2014

[TechnoVol]

I think CBJ and staff are still trying to figure out which freshman QB they want to play this year and which one will redshirt. Important decision since there's a possibility the one being asked to redshirt could transfer.

So this single decision this season could impact the program at that position for the next 3 years. I'm fine with CBJ taking his time on this.

 

[Sudden Impact]

Mechanics, mental confidence, uncomfortable with system, WR have missed some routes. Does not look comfortable with read option and he finally tucked the ball in and ran it twice against USA. We need a DT QB.

 

[Other_Guy]

Obviously CBJ is trying as hard as he can to save both Ferguson and Dobbs until next year when more of his own recruits come on board. Say we get to that point, what does he do with Worley, send him packing? Do you see CBJ keeping Worley starter through his senior year? Does he start mixing in Dobbs and Ferguson into the games and slowly fade out Worley? I guess 2014 is when the real QB battle starts?

I love how everyone assumes Worley won't get any better at all and that the freshman will improve with zero experience and take over.

 

[KBVol]

Both freshman couldn't do any worse than worley 1 hoping the ball on a 5 yard hitch

Did you watch Peterman vs Florida? And neither were ready to be the 2nd QB ahead of him. I'll leave the evaluations and coaching to the staff.

 

[sjt18]

I don't think anyone would disagree that our ideal situation would be for the light to come on in Worley's head and he is able to keep hold of the job to the extent that neither freshmen can pass him up and we finish out the year with a bowl game.

However, we've seen no evidence that this will be the case.

Then you need to do some more looking.

Worley in the first game didn't make any mistakes. He wasn't particularly productive but he didn't make mistakes. He played conservative and even apprehensive. He was afraid to take chances. No mistakes = No opportunities to improve.

Oregon was even worse as he continued to take no chances and played a team that didn't offer the easy stuff.

The light DID begin to come on vs UF. He'd been benched and came back in as if he had nothing to lose. In the last two games, he's made some mistakes. But they were mistakes where he was TRYING to make a big play. He was finally responding to the coaches' demands that he throw to where the receiver should be and not to just open receivers. Very correctable mistakes... and some of his best throws of the year.

NO ONE in the SEC can throw any better of a ball than the one he drilled into Croom for a big 3rd down conversion or the touch pass placed perfectly to Smith.

 

[Sudden Impact]

Then you need to do some more looking.

Worley in the first game didn't make any mistakes. He wasn't particularly productive but he didn't make mistakes. He played conservative and even apprehensive. He was afraid to take chances. No mistakes = No opportunities to improve.

Oregon was even worse as he continued to take no chances and played a team that didn't offer the easy stuff.

The light DID begin to come on vs UF. He'd been benched and came back in as if he had nothing to lose. In the last two games, he's made some mistakes. But they were mistakes where he was TRYING to make a big play. He was finally responding to the coaches' demands that he throw to where the receiver should be and not to just open receivers. Very correctable mistakes... and some of his best throws of the year.

NO ONE in the SEC can throw any better of a ball than the one he drilled into Croom for a big 3rd down conversion or the touch pass placed perfectly to Smith.

I agree. It does seem he is playing not to lose the game or turnover turnover. Confidence and comfortability?

When he throw slants and the wheel route he looks great.

Are the receivers running the correct routes? I just think when he puts a complete game together he will be fine and we will go bowling.

 

[PeytonBerry]

I will premise this by stating again that you and way too many others are underestimating Worley's potential. I am not saying he will become a great QB but the potential is there for him to be a very good college QB.

Now, to your point. IMHO, he will play the best guy but acts as if he assumes that will be Worley through next year. He is trying to preserve the RS's obviously but he's also making comments related to the QB-receiver rapport that indicates that assumption.

So the "end" game assuming UT does not win more this year or next than most of us expect.... is to have a RS Soph OR a new hot shot recruit as the starter of an experienced and deep offense in '15. I think Jones knows he needs to prove himself along the way... but really has to make his mark in '15.

I don't think he treats any game much less a season as "throw away" but he also has to have a strategy of how to use resources to become successful as soon as possible. That could force decisions that are better for the future than now.

I respect your opinion, but I cannot disagree more about your potential comment. I think Worley has a very low ceiling based on an inadequate skill set (strength, speed, touch, decision making). I remember seeing Bray come in during mop-up duty as a freshman at Georgia, and he made some NFL caliber throws (mistakes peppered in of course). To me, that was what potential looked like even though he wasn't ready at the time.

With all that said, I have a lot of respect for Worley, and I will cheer him on as long as he is our QB. I will never boo a kid who gives his all for Tennessee.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Then you need to do some more looking.

Worley in the first game didn't make any mistakes. He wasn't particularly productive but he didn't make mistakes. He played conservative and even apprehensive. He was afraid to take chances. No mistakes = No opportunities to improve.

Oregon was even worse as he continued to take no chances and played a team that didn't offer the easy stuff.

The light DID begin to come on vs UF. He'd been benched and came back in as if he had nothing to lose. In the last two games, he's made some mistakes. But they were mistakes where he was TRYING to make a big play. He was finally responding to the coaches' demands that he throw to where the receiver should be and not to just open receivers. Very correctable mistakes... and some of his best throws of the year.

NO ONE in the SEC can throw any better of a ball than the one he drilled into Croom for a big 3rd down conversion or the touch pass placed perfectly to Smith.

I agree that he has shown improvement throughout the season, but what I meant is that he's yet to show that he can put it all together at once.

We've basically seen 2 Worleys this year: we've seen tentative Worley who doesn't turn the ball over but is afraid to go for the big play and we've seen not afraid to go for the big play Worley with 5 interceptions in 6 quarters of play.

The last game and a half has shown that he has the arm talent to make some good throws, but that when he goes into a game with the mentality to try and make this throws he turns the ball over (whether or not all I those turnovers were his fault). Worley made more big throws than many expected from him, but he threw twice as many interceptions as tds at the expense.

I really hope we can see Worley put it all together this season, but until our WRs start turning simple catches into big plays, I'm not sure we'll see it happen.

 

[Burger]

Then you need to do some more looking.

Worley in the first game didn't make any mistakes. He wasn't particularly productive but he didn't make mistakes. He played conservative and even apprehensive. He was afraid to take chances. No mistakes = No opportunities to improve.

Oregon was even worse as he continued to take no chances and played a team that didn't offer the easy stuff.

The light DID begin to come on vs UF. He'd been benched and came back in as if he had nothing to lose. In the last two games, he's made some mistakes. But they were mistakes where he was TRYING to make a big play. He was finally responding to the coaches' demands that he throw to where the receiver should be and not to just open receivers. Very correctable mistakes... and some of his best throws of the year.

NO ONE in the SEC can throw any better of a ball than the one he drilled into Croom for a big 3rd down conversion or the touch pass placed perfectly to Smith.

You're saying its a confidence issue? He may be able to throw NFL bullets, but throwing a deep ball is different. You don't get as much rotational force in the shoulder because of direction. Bray had a very impressive deep ball because he compensated other ways. Worleys herky jerky mechanics don't help. It's why a lot of qbs improve quicker with mechanical changes

 

[govols/cc]

You're saying its a confidence issue? He may be able to throw NFL bullets, but throwing a deep ball is different. You don't get as much rotational force in the shoulder because of direction. Bray had a very impressive deep ball because he compensated other ways. Worleys herky jerky mechanics don't help. It's why a lot of qbs improve quicker with mechanical changes

Lol

 

[sjt18]

I respect your opinion, but I cannot disagree more about your potential comment. I think Worley has a very low ceiling based on an inadequate skill set (strength, speed, touch, decision making).

Arm strength- in one of the late games last year the announcers had apparently seen jugs guns on he and Bray. Bray threw 55 mph. Worley threw 51 mph. Bray's arm strength would have easily been top 5% in the NCAA. Worley's would have been well above avg.

Colin K had the best MPH in the '11 draft. He clocked 59 mph. Cam Newton threw 56 mph. Drew Brees has been clocked at 52.

Speed- He won't be mistaken for Manziel but he looked pretty quick running all out vs USA. They are not a slow D but he was well up field before they were able to react. He appears to have sufficient speed for what Jones needs the QB to do.

Touch- Touch? He threw a BEAUTIFUL ball to Smith last Saturday. Better examples can be found by going back and looking at some of the balls he dropped in to DR a couple of years ago.

Decision-making- He may not develop there but he is improving and IS being coached. That is a complaint that at one time or another has been made against every UT QB going back to Shuler except for Manning. He may be limited there for all I know. Some guys are. But I suspect you'd be amazed how much better his decision making looked if he were throwing to a couple of guys like DR, ZR, or JH. The WR's on the roster have that kind of potential but not that level of experience.

I remember seeing Bray come in during mop-up duty as a freshman at Georgia, and he made some NFL caliber throws (mistakes peppered in of course). To me, that was what potential looked like even though he wasn't ready at the time.

But potential will not always "look" the same. Bray was all arm but his decision making was often suspect. He could not run. Occasionally he drilled passes that should have had air under them.

With all that said, I have a lot of respect for Worley, and I will cheer him on as long as he is our QB. I will never boo a kid who gives his all for Tennessee.

Agreed.... and appreciate your very civil disagreement.:hi:

 

[PeytonBerry]

Arm strength- in one of the late games last year the announcers had apparently seen jugs guns on he and Bray. Bray threw 55 mph. Worley threw 51 mph. Bray's arm strength would have easily been top 5% in the NCAA. Worley's would have been well above avg.

Colin K had the best MPH in the '11 draft. He clocked 59 mph. Cam Newton threw 56 mph. Drew Brees has been clocked at 52.

Speed- He won't be mistaken for Manziel but he looked pretty quick running all out vs USA. They are not a slow D but he was well up field before they were able to react. He appears to have sufficient speed for what Jones needs the QB to do.

Touch- Touch? He threw a BEAUTIFUL ball to Smith last Saturday. Better examples can be found by going back and looking at some of the balls he dropped in to DR a couple of years ago.

Decision-making- He may not develop there but he is improving and IS being coached. That is a complaint that at one time or another has been made against every UT QB going back to Shuler except for Manning. He may be limited there for all I know. Some guys are. But I suspect you'd be amazed how much better his decision making looked if he were throwing to a couple of guys like DR, ZR, or JH. The WR's on the roster have that kind of potential but not that level of experience.

But potential will not always "look" the same. Bray was all arm but his decision making was often suspect. He could not run. Occasionally he drilled passes that should have had air under them.



Agreed.... and appreciate your very civil disagreement.:hi:

I'll give you speed, because he did show enough against USA to be effective.

I'll also agree that he threw a beautiful ball to Smith last Saturday (and a handful of others this year), BUT you have to look at the whole breadth of work. Like Simms it looks like he throws bullets to his receivers in close range. Maybe ACCURACY is what I'm looking for instead of touch. How many balls have been thrown in the dirt? How many have sailed over receivers in the flat? How many late balls on slant patterns? How many times have wide open receivers had to reach back or dive for balls eliminating any yards-after-catch? That's where I see a low ceiling.

Kudos to you too. This board is supposed to be a place we can discuss UT football and offer insights/opinions without being rude or demeaning. I especially appreciate when folks such as yourself back up their thoughts with examples, stats, etc. :hi:

 

[sjt18]

My disagreement with your last post would be the comparison between Worley vs APSU/WKU and Worley vs USA. He's making more mistakes but he's taking more chances. He is throwing with far more confidence and is night/day more accurate downfield. I don't understand what the problem is with the short throws though.

I think Worley has the physical talent to become a very good QB. The decision making and confidence are still major questions that come down in large measure to coaching along with his mental/emotional make up. I certainly hope that works out.

Unfortunately I have allowed myself to get a little snotty with some when they persisted in being smart alecks or using personal attacks but am trying not to do that any more. Pretty silly thing to do.

 

[sjt18]

Funny. On that one run up the middle I thought UT had traded for Shaw.

 

[PeytonBerry]

My disagreement with your last post would be the comparison between Worley vs APSU/WKU and Worley vs USA. He's making more mistakes but he's taking more chances. He is throwing with far more confidence and is night/day more accurate downfield. I don't understand what the problem is with the short throws though.

I think Worley has the physical talent to become a very good QB. The decision making and confidence are still major questions that come down in large measure to coaching along with his mental/emotional make up. I certainly hope that works out.

Unfortunately I have allowed myself to get a little snotty with some when they persisted in being smart alecks or using personal attacks but am trying not to do that any more. Pretty silly thing to do.

Interesting point about better accuracy downfield. I haven't noticed, but it would be interesting to look at again.

Regarding the short throws though, wouldn't you think that is a pretty big problem in a Butch Jones offense that relies heavily on short throws?

 

[photovol]

Don't kid yourself, Butch is looking for a QB for 2014. If Butch is not looking for QB for 2014, I'm extremely concerned about our future.

 

[TennesseeOrange]

My disagreement with your last post would be the comparison between Worley vs APSU/WKU and Worley vs USA. He's making more mistakes but he's taking more chances. He is throwing with far more confidence and is night/day more accurate downfield. I don't understand what the problem is with the short throws though.

I think Worley has the physical talent to become a very good QB. The decision making and confidence are still major questions that come down in large measure to coaching along with his mental/emotional make up. I certainly hope that works out.

Unfortunately I have allowed myself to get a little snotty with some when they persisted in being smart alecks or using personal attacks but am trying not to do that any more. Pretty silly thing to do.

Some of the drag routes he's having to move around the pocket and throw across his body. One of his first throws against USA demonstrated this. He had no pocket, had to move to his right and almost simultaneously throw across his body. It's a tough throw to make. It's happened a few times.

He's also being forced to roll out and throw on the run, for probably the first time in his career. At least 2-4 times a game the play calls for him to roll left and throw an out route (or at least that's his first progression). That's the hardest side for a righty to roll to, and while it's not a deep out, it still requires a pretty good arm to get it there.

 

[volsohard99]

i ask this as a serious question........

are there any opponents we have faced whose first team QB would have been second string compared to Worley?

and are there any we will face this year??

HOW does TENNESSEE possibly have it this bad at this position?

just makes no sense. i guess its easier said than done when your OLine is collapsing at inopportune times (Florida) and your WRs are young.

 

[sjt18]

Interesting point about better accuracy downfield. I haven't noticed, but it would be interesting to look at again.

Regarding the short throws though, wouldn't you think that is a pretty big problem in a Butch Jones offense that relies heavily on short throws?

Yes I would. He needs to get it fixed and right quick.

I think he definitely gets the next two games since UGA and Bama are likely the two most talented teams on the schedule. A freshman's inexperience could literally cost them their career. One bad line call could bring a future NFL DE crashing down on their world.

If he wants to be the starter for USCe and Mizzou... he better start hitting those, the swing passes, and the screens.

 

[sjt18]

Don't kid yourself, Butch is looking for a QB for 2014. If Butch is not looking for QB for 2014, I'm extremely concerned about our future.

Of course he is. He's looking for a recruit to add to the class and he's looking for the guy who can move the program forward.

That can still be Worley or one of the other 3 or a hot shot Fr who blows them all away. IMHO, Peterman is probably done and I doubt a Fr is going to come in like that above the other 3.

So someone out of those three more than likely will develop and take the lead by next August.

 

[Coug]

Yes but it goes back to a point I made before that Butch is prepared for next year to be a wash like this year. Worley doesn't cut it. Peterman sucks. 2 other redshirt freshman without a single live snap. Who knows they both may be worse than Worley or Peterman.

My gosh man! I sure hope our coach doesn't have the same thought process as you.

 

[sjt18]

i ask this as a serious question........

are there any opponents we have faced whose first team QB would have been second string compared to Worley?

and are there any we will face this year??

HOW does TENNESSEE possibly have it this bad at this position?

just makes no sense. i guess its easier said than done when your OLine is collapsing at inopportune times (Florida) and your WRs are young.

You really.... need to understand how big of a deal having that much youth at the WR position is.

Worley may be great or horrible... but the WR play prevents ANY reasonable attempt at drawing a conclusion.

 

[BanditVol]

I will premise this by stating again that you and way too many others are underestimating Worley's potential. I am not saying he will become a great QB but the potential is there for him to be a very good college QB.

I agree. I am not at all certain that Worley will ever "get it" but I think he can play much better than he has. I also think some fans were already disappointed with him after the Austin Peay game, which is pretty silly considering he was 11/13 in that game.

Regardless, we should not have patience forever, but with time I still think he can be better. Doesn't mean he WILL, but I am willing to give it a few more games, particularly considering what we are facing in these next three.

Think of it this way..Bray came in for the last game in October (USC) and Clausen came in for the bammer game when it was the third Saturday in October still. So even if Jones is forced to make a move and it's the first game in November, I am okay with it. Nothing wrong with waiting till later in the season to make a change.

 

[BanditVol]

You really.... need to understand how big of a deal having that much youth at the WR position is.

Worley may be great or horrible... but the WR play prevents ANY reasonable attempt at drawing a conclusion.

Agree. This factor is largely discounted by the fans. How good would CP and Hunter be making Worley look right now? Can't say for sure, but at least some better and maybe A LOT.

 

[sjt18]

I agree. I am not at all certain that Worley will ever "get it" but I think he can play much better than he has. I also think some fans were already disappointed with him after the Austin Peay game, which is pretty silly considering he was 11/13 in that game.

I think some disappointment was valid. UT could have afforded him taking some chances and playing looser like I think he is now. He didn't do it which made things worse until after he was benched.

Regardless, we should not have patience forever, but with time I still think he can be better. Doesn't mean he WILL, but I am willing to give it a few more games, particularly considering what we are facing in these next three.

I think he just about has to start through Bama. He's starting this week obviously and it would be pretty foolish to start a Fr on the road vs Bama.

After that, I think it really becomes a question of whether Jones thinks he's going to get there or not. At least one of the Fr should be ready to make a home start vs USCe or come in relief like Bray did when he took the job. Mizzou provides another chance to start a Fr even though it is on the road. They are weaker on D than any opponent UT has faced so far except APSU.

Think of it this way..Bray came in for the last game in October (USC) and Clausen came in for the bammer game when it was the third Saturday in October still. So even if Jones is forced to make a move and it's the first game in November, I am okay with it. Nothing wrong with waiting till later in the season to make a change.

I think we're on the same page. Hopefully Worley gets it going... if not then maybe we see the future for the last 4 or 5 games.