What is the difference between the Tea Party and Republican Party?

#54
#54
lawgator1 said:
The issue isn't use of the word "trash," its that he made the distinction at all as "white."

Calling someone "trash" implies that they are inferior or have lesser value because they use the social spending benefits. Adding the descriptor white makes it seem as though they are out of the ordinary as far as the system is concerned.

And that's the point. As long as blacks use the system in such larger numbers or ratios as whites, some feel it necessary to distinguish them from ordinary trash with the descriptor "white trash."

I find it difficult to believe that you cannot see that.


You were the one claiming this was about race. He points out that there are for more white people who use these programs and states he believes anyone playing the system instead of providing when they are able is trash in his book.

You are jumping through hoops trying to show what he really meant was black people are trash when only a certain segment of white people fall under that category which required mental gymnastics on your part.



Do you not think that a lot of white American identify with that? I hear comments from whites all the time basically admitting to that assumption. And in fact that it was the debate is about in Arizona, i.e. whether the new law out there is in some way an extension of the assumption.






Animosity towards a race based on the view that blacks or Hispanics have some inherent character flaw is one thing. The Klan and Hitler believed that.

Suspicion or criticism of a race based on the use of it as a proxy for something else, i.e. social spending, is completely different. Its just lazy, really.

The latter is bad but not nearly as bad as the former.





I challenge your statement.

Blacks who use welfare, as a percentage of all blacks, is much higher than the whites who use it, as a percentage of all whites.


My statement is 100% factually correct. If you feel your point is bolstered by changing it to percentage, fine, I don't agree. More white people benefit from entitlement programs than any other race. It isn't about race it's about ever expanding entitlement programs that don't help people out of bad situations but encourage them to remain dependent on the state.


Again, challenge the statement.
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See bold above.
 
#56
#56
lawgator1 said:
Best I could find on the subject was a response to a blog question about the same thing:

there are no published figures that I can find from the AFDC but from what I know as far as raw numbers whites make up the majority in reciepients of welfare followed by blacks. In reference to size of population blacks have the highest reciepient percentage. Both groups are at around 40% but since blacks make up only 14% of the US overall population and there are 4 times more whites than there are blacks, that makes a big difference in how to read those numbers.

So, it is true there are more whites than blacks on welfare, but that is only because there is a much larger white population in the US. It is also true that there are more blacks on welfare than whites because more of the black population are on welfare in contrast to the number of whites on welfare in the white population.
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The bolded part makes no sense. How can the proportion of blacks be much higher when both are at 40%?

Okay here's what we know:

1. Many more whites than blacks are on the government dole.

2. About 40% of whites and 40% of blacks are on the government dole.

3. TP members seek to reduce the government dole.

From that you deduce that TP members feel that way since blacks dispproportionately use welfare (though your own facts dispute that) and do not realize they'll be hurting whitey far more.

The Nobel Prize awaits you sir.
 
#57
#57
lawgator1 said:
:blink:
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without using the La Raza poll show me where they don't. At least the ones I know out there have been calling for this stuff for years. 70% of AZ voters approved of the measure in a state that is almost racially even
 
#58
#58
volinbham said:
The bolded part makes no sense. How can the proportion of blacks be much higher when both are at 40%?

Okay here's what we know:

1. Many more whites than blacks are on the government dole.

2. About 40% of whites and 40% of blacks are on the government dole.

3. TP members seek to reduce the government dole.

From that you deduce that TP members feel that way since blacks dispproportionately use welfare (though your own facts dispute that) and do not realize they'll be hurting whitey far more.

The Nobel Prize awaits you sir.
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ooorrrr.... a law degree
 
#60
#60
lawgator1 said:
My take:
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Is wrong as usual. You have a blind tendency to make assumptions about the motives of others based on YOUR biases and prejudices.

The largest group within the TP combines a desire for less government spending, particularly on programs benefitting minorities, and they also promote conservative social policy based on religious values.
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This might have some merit if you had not thrown in the bit about minorities. NOTHING that you could consider "typical" within the TP suggests they oppose social programs because they benefit minorities.

You are very fond of insenuating that the TP and right in general is racist. But what is more racist: considering someone your equal and therefore believing they should be equally responsible for taking care of themselves or believing certain groups are somehow inherently and permanently in need of assistance because they cannot make it on their own?

I consider other races equal... I wish liberals and some members of those groups would accept that view as well.

The Tea Party demands rigid compliance with their platform. Negotiating with Democrats is a sign of weakness and disloyalty.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Almost... but no. The TPer's believe in a set of principles closely paralleling the original intent of the Founders and USC. They see compromise with the governing philosophy of the Democrats as a move in the wrong direction. Are you old enough to remember the demagogury surrounding the gov't "shut downs" of the 90's? Do you know what the Dems called "Draconian cuts"? The GOP wanted to limit spending increases in social programs to the real inflation rate rather than roughly 3 times that rate.

In your mind, compromise on an expansion of a social program would be if it increased but not as much as Dems wanted. TPer's instinctively realize that isn't compromise... that is defeat.

It is the equivalent of conservatives proposing to defund NPR, NEA, the Education Dept, and shrink the Federal budget in real $ then agreeing to keep partial funding for NPR and calling that a compromise. If Dems agreed to that YOU would not call it "compromise" or "negotiating".
 
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#61
#61
utvolpj said:
without using the La Raza poll show me where they don't. At least the ones I know out there have been calling for this stuff for years. 70% of AZ voters approved of the measure in a state that is almost racially even
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most successful hispanics i know are anti illegal immigration. of course most of their ancestors immigrated legally.
 
#62
#62
droski said:
most successful hispanics i know are anti illegal immigration. of course most of their ancestors immigrated legally.
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I'm sure this will set off a bevy of PC issues... but...

Hispanics or Mexicans? Every non-Mexican Hispanic I know came here legally and most of them actually despise Mexicans.
 
#63
#63
Don't discourage LG guys. He believes blacks are invalids who require gov't help and liberal elitists to survive this cruel world where honest, law abiding, hardworking folk who attain some level of success in life (like the ones who show up at TP rallies) are victimizing them.
 
#64
#64
DC Vol said:
I'm sure this will set off a bevy of PC issues... but...

Hispanics or Mexicans? Every non-Mexican Hispanic I know came here legally and most of them actually despise Mexicans.
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most the ones i mentioned are mexicans
 
#65
#65
DC Vol said:
I'm sure this will set off a bevy of PC issues... but...

Hispanics or Mexicans? Every non-Mexican Hispanic I know came here legally and most of them actually despise Mexicans.
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I know some Cubans who work for my company... they despise the Mexicans.

I've known Puerto Ricans and they don't like them either.

There is far more hatred between those groups than between white Americans and any of those groups.
 
#66
#66
sjt18 said:
I know some Cubans who work for my company... they despise the Mexicans.

I've known Puerto Ricans and they don't like them either.

There is far more hatred between those groups than between white Americans and any of those groups.
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Absolutely. I know quite a few Central/Southern Americans and they almost all despise Mexicans.


Quote from a Honduran guy I'm friends with:

"If you look at Hispanic immigration to the states and draw a parallel to immigration from the turn of last Century... all of South America is Western Europe, Central America is Eastern Europe and Mexico is Ireland... except the Irish got here legally." I had to stifle my laughter to avoid spitting out my beer and said "I'm part Irish" and he said "oooh, so that's why you only drink a couple of beers". Luckily I had swallowed by the time he delivered the nail in the coffin.
 
#67
#67
tigervol9802 said:
What does that mean?
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Take a shot ...


utvolpj said:
without using the La Raza poll show me where they don't. At least the ones I know out there have been calling for this stuff for years. 70% of AZ voters approved of the measure in a state that is almost racially even
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The "ones I know out there" translates into the "vast majority of Hispanics"?

Dude, seriously.
 
#68
#68
lawgator1 said:
The "ones I know out there" translates into the "vast majority of Hispanics"?

Dude, seriously.
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it's common sense that a decent % of hispanics must have supported considering the racial breakdown of the state and the 70% approval level.
 
#69
#69
sjt18 said:
Don't discourage LG guys. He believes blacks are invalids who require gov't help and liberal elitists to survive this cruel world where honest, law abiding, hardworking folk who attain some level of success in life (like the ones who show up at TP rallies) are victimizing them.
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That's ridiculous. I do belive that certain groups within our society have been working at a substantial disadvantage over the years. I'm not one to advocate overwhelming use of artificial means of overcoming it. But I think it exists and that acknolweding it is a necessary step in the process of disengaging the stereotype from the reality.
 
#71
#71
droski said:
most successful hispanics i know are anti illegal immigration. of course most of their ancestors immigrated legally.
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Most everyone I know is anti-illegal immigration.

There is an earnest debate to be had as to how to reduce or eliminate it.

The perception is that the Az law makes assumptions based on appearance.
 
#73
#73
droski said:
it's common sense that a decent % of hispanics must have supported considering the racial breakdown of the state and the 70% approval level.
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which is my point. I never saw a reputable poll of legal AZ Hispanic voters that gave a %. But working off the 70% mark the math leads me to believe the number is high
 
#74
#74
lawgator1 said:
That's ridiculous. I do belive that certain groups within our society have been working at a substantial disadvantage over the years. I'm not one to advocate overwhelming use of artificial means of overcoming it. But I think it exists and that acknolweding it is a necessary step in the process of disengaging the stereotype from the reality.
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How in the world is this the case? I know a plethora of individuals (some through the military, most not through the military) that came from literally nothing. They hold Accounting, Medical, Engineering, Law, etc degrees due to hard work and perseverance.

They are also the ones who have the least amount of tolerance for those who grovel around complaining about not being hand-given everything.

This includes a girl who escaped being sold into a sex ring, 3 people who escaped the Salvadorean Civil War (f'n terrifying at that). If they have no tolerance for whining and excuses, I respect their right. They represent "the other side of the fence" as you liberals like to put it best.

I don't see a fence. I don't see division between "sides". I see hard-working and I see lazy. How am I the racist here?
 
#75
#75
lawgator1 said:
That's ridiculous. I do belive that certain groups within our society have been working at a substantial disadvantage over the years. I'm not one to advocate overwhelming use of artificial means of overcoming it. But I think it exists and that acknolweding it is a necessary step in the process of disengaging the stereotype from the reality.
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EVERYONE has advantages and disadvantages in life that they didn't choose. The longer people keep walking on crutches... the longer it will be until they can run with the best.

You are playing Quixote with this. There will always be stereotypes to fight against... you express more than a few of yours here concerning TPer's, Christians, Conservatives, etc.

Scar was right and the sooner you liberals/progressives/Dems stop pretending otherwise... the better off everyone will be including minorities. "Life's not fair". Life is a struggle and realists know that they will be subject to unfair treatment. When people realize that and decide to ovecome anyway... then they achieve success and the satisfaction of accomplishment. Liberals, some with the best of intentions, have destroyed the souls of many people by making them dependents. Sadly, blacks have been effected more than any other group.
 
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