What is the story with Bill Battle?

[dovervolz]

I've always thought Bill Battle had a lot of class. He got recruited Condrege Holloway. He made a fortune creating the licensing system for college paraphernalia.

Condrege would have gone to bama.

 

[Volosaurus rex]

Condrege would have gone to bama.

Nope, Condredge stated on film that Bear Bryant told him straight up that he would like Condredge to come to 'bama, but the state of Alabama was not ready yet to accept a black quarterback. Condredge said that he appreciated Bryant's honesty. The Artful Dodger also said that, if the matter was left up to him, he would have skipped college football altogether; he was selected as "a shortstop by the Montreal Expos in the 1971 Major League Baseball draft. Holloway was Montreal's first pick, and he was the fourth player selected overall. However, Holloway's mother, insisting her son attend college, refused to sign the contract (Condredge was 17, too young to sign a contract under Alabama law) and instead he went to Tennessee." Condredge Holloway - Wikipedia

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

@Volfan76 actually tried to argue that Majors walked into a worse situation than Heupel did. He failed miserably

 

[WillisWG]

I do agree with most of this, but didn't Fulmer play under Dickey, maybe gone before Battle took over?

Played for both

1969 Football Guide

Volunteers football media guide published in 1969. The team was led by coach Doug Dickey during this athletic season.

digital.lib.utk.edu

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Reposted from another thread. Majors walked into the worst program in the SEC - Battle never coached another day after leaving UT and "retired" as a coach at age 34. It was the extreme "reach hire" that had no chance of long term success. Battle took a program that was at the top of the SEC following Dickey and torched it. If Majors had been hired to follow Dickey as he should have - there would have been no drop off. Battle is a nice man who simply could not recruit consistently or evaluate SEC talent. He was signing players not highly ranked by ETSU according to a friend who coached at ETSU. It took Majors years to win 9 games but climbing from the bottom to the top - can be a difficult journey. Heupel has done a terrific job but at no point in the post-Fulmer era was the program as low as it was in 1977. All coaches following Fulmer were legitimate head coaches or had serious SEC experience like Pruitt when hired by Tennessee except Bill Battle. Hiring Battle was like elevating the TE Coach at TN now Abeln (?) to head coach. Everyone knew Battle had doomed the program to a massive rebuild - and he might have gone winless in 1977 with the squad Majors coached to 4 wins. If Majors had had the transfer portal and could have flipped the roster - that would have been interesting. Majors was a phenomenal recruiter and program builder - but the OVC level squad he inherited certainly tested all patience and resilience to restore Tennessee to a quality SEC talent level. Johnny Majors undoubtedly took over the worst roster of any UT coach following General Neyland. Bill Battle would not put the work in to recruit and basically drew a paycheck until the talent well ran dry and Majors had to clean up the giant mess. Being there at the time - we said future fans may not understand why Battle was let go with what on paper looked like a decent record - well now you know.

Well, at least we know your opinion. I agree he walked into a mess but so have a few other coaches at Tennessee We have had our share of really good coaches, but awe have had some program busters too. I would rather talk about the good times at Tennessee and not dwell on those not so good. Fact is the equality of our past coaches can be linked to the quality of Athletic Directors and School's Presidents.

 

[robow]

I remember him as coach at UT, but I'm pretty sure the Bill Battle "story" expired long ago.

Recruiting must have been an uphill battle for him.

 

[OffTackleVol]

Dickey leaving was bad but Bama had used the same basic offensive scheme throughout the 60s. The Bear went 12-10-1 in 69-70 then in 71 came the wishbone and Bama began to whip everyone not just Battle. The 71-75 Bama teams went 54 -5. Dickey had his opportunity at UF to beat Bama but no joy. I don't think he would have fared any better than Battle did if he had stayed.

LOL, sure.

 

[WillisWG]

Dickey left a loaded team in 1970. The ‘71 team was great also but the QB position cost the Auburn game vs Sullivan. The ‘72 team was solid also that lost a heart breaker to Bama. The talent was slowly going down after that.

Battle recruited some great players but Tennessee got very lean on the LOS talent after ‘72.

Just couldn't find the end zone that day. I didn't make this game (71), it was on ABC so didn't make the drive. Thought we had won, late 4th drive deep into their territory only to fumble. 43:55 mark A FG there would have put it away. Watson should have gotten the ball instead of a QB keeper.,

Sullivan put together great drive, dammit.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

Dickey left a loaded team in 1970. The ‘71 team was great also but the QB position cost the Auburn game vs Sullivan. The ‘72 team was solid also that lost a heart breaker to Bama. The talent was slowly going down after that.

Battle recruited some great players but Tennessee got very lean on the LOS talent after ‘72.

The 1970 team, which was Battle's first, and a loaded roster, was the best Battle had his entire time.

 

[Savannahbayvol]

LOL, sure.

Now that's funny. The first 4 Bear teams Dickey coached against were 37-5-1. Dickey was 1-2-1 against these teams and if Gary Wright would have made a chip shot FG in 66 he would have been 2-1-1 against 4 of Bears best teams.

 

[bigorangepoppa]

I've heard that he wanted undersized linemen who were faster than the opposing teams linemen. Give me the big uglies who are stronger than the other teams big uglies.

 

[snappervol]

I knew Bill pretty well and he didn't like to recruit. I guess that is why he had poor results. Last time I saw Bill was at Sandy Spivey's funeral in Atlanta. Bill was an outstanding gentleman and fortunately, was a huge success in businesses after coaching.

“Andy Spiva” was his name. One of the saddest occurrences in all of UT football Hx.
Edit ; the other significant tragedy occurred a few years earlier ‘65 I believe, when Johnnys brother Bill Majors (along with two other UT assistant coaches) were killed in an auto/train collision in W. Knoxville. Many felt if he had been alive, Bill Majors would have replaced Dickey, not Battle.

 

[snappervol]

I do agree with most of this, but didn't Fulmer play under Dickey, maybe gone before Battle took over?

Nope , Phil played for Battle if I recall. Battle was here in ‘70.
Most on here are correct, Coach Dickey had UT atop the college football world, before jumping to the Gators. Battle was a 28 year old who had a good mind for the game, but not the motor required, even for the 70’s (in which recruiting is nothing like current day, and was mostly done over the phone, with letters thru the USPS, and with an occasional in-person visit). Battle never fully embraced recruiting, and sure he had some success stories , but overall the teams declined with each passing year.
The ‘75 season sealed his fate with the losses to N. Texas State and Vandy. The moving trucks were sent to his house following the Horned Frogs victory in Neyland. The last game of the year that season was in Hawaii, where Vol faithful showed up en-mass and took over Aloha Stadium. As a grade school aged kid, I still recall the banner being carried around the sideline; “The Battle is over, we need a Majors change”.
The move was afoot well before the Vandy game that season and ended with Johnny marching home.

 

[BigorangeBoy]

Recruited some really good skill players (some) here and there, but our talent on both sides of the LOS was lacking. If we’d had any decent defense in his last year or so ( when we went wishbone with Dal Shealy as OC) things may have been different. Plus there was no discipline in the program, lots of infighting. Battle was a weak leader, and just not ready for the spotlight

 

[OffTackleVol]

Now that's funny. The first 4 Bear teams Dickey coached against were 37-5-1. Dickey was 1-2-1 against these teams and if Gary Wright would have made a chip shot FG in 66 he would have been 2-1-1 against 4 of Bears best teams.

Yep, if Dickey had not left Tennessee, Bama's 1970's run/dominance would have never happened. Never......

 

[wmcovol]

Yep, if Dickey had not left Tennessee, Bama's 1970's run/dominance would have never happened. Never......

Dickey was a very good recruiter and Chuch Rohe, track coach, was an outstanding recruiter. Together, they brought a lot of talent to Tennessee. I’m not sure the talent gap would have escalated if they’d stayed.

 

[WillisWG]

Dickey was a very good recruiter and Chuch Rohe, track coach, was an outstanding recruiter. Together, they brought a lot of talent to Tennessee. I’m not sure the talent gap would have escalated if they’d stayed.

DD really did put a great group together for us, something he was unable to do at Florida. Rohe, Hall and Trail all had an eye for talent.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Battle was just before my time. As an elementary School kid; my Dad’s Tennessee obsession hadn’t quite taken hold of me yet. (First Vol Game i remember watching and caring about was in 79 under Majors). But I do clearly remember that Dad was a big Bill Battle fan and thought Tennessee didn’t give him enough time. I still have a signed picture that Battle sent my dad.
So I am basically unqualified to opine on this question. I do know that Majors turned out to be an excellent coach who basically built the foundation for the success under Fulmer. The Sugar Vols victory against Miami was basically our National coming out party and was one of the great games of my lifetime

 

[VOLINVONORE]

“Andy Spiva” was his name. One of the saddest occurrences in all of UT football Hx.
Edit ; the other significant tragedy occurred a few years earlier ‘65 I believe, when Johnnys brother Bill Majors (along with two other UT assistant coaches) were killed in an auto/train collision in W. Knoxville. Many felt if he had been alive, Bill Majors would have replaced Dickey, not Battle.

Yep. Hate typing on my phone. Letters are so small I don’t catch all of them at age 85.
I remember the train accident as well as the auto accident which took the life of Freshman linebacker from Memphis who died in a wreck near Benton Tn That players was one of the greatest LBs Tennessee’s has ever signed.

 

[Volosaurus rex]

Yep, if Dickey had not left Tennessee, Bama's 1970's run/dominance would have never happened. Never......

Bama became a fundamentally different beast after adopting the wishbone. I suspect that, if Dickey stayed long-term, the '70s would have evolved into something akin to the 1990s in the SEC east, where two perennial top-10/top-5 programs were battling annually for supremacy. Bryant would have won his share of head-to-head battles, and Dickey would have won his share. 'tis a shame that we didn't have the opportunity to see that scenario unfold. As things were, Dickey was 3-2-1 against the Bear. Not many coaches at Tennessee or elsewhere can claim that level of success against Bryant.

Even Dickey admitted that leaving Tennessee was the worst decision that he ever made. He essentially abandoned his own offensive coaching philosophy at Florida and tried to emulate 'bama's success by implementing the wishbone there but it simply didn't produce the results that he or the reptilian horde wanted.

 

[VolTull]

ven Dickey admitted that leaving Tennessee was the worst decision that he ever made.

Then he was rewarded by returning to UT as the AD.

 

[malibuvol]

Condrege would have gone to bama.

Condrege wanted to play QB, but Bear told him that Alabama (state of) was not ready for a black QB, thus sealing the deal for UT...

 

[Savannahbayvol]

Yep. Hate typing on my phone. Letters are so small I don’t catch all of them at age 85.
I remember the train accident as well as the auto accident which took the life of Freshman linebacker from Memphis who died in a wreck near Benton Tn That players was one of the greatest LBs Tennessee’s has ever signed.

Hate to correct you but that was Tom Fisher, senior LB from Florida who was killed returning from Florida for 1966 spring break. You are correct he might very well had been the greatest LB we ever had.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Hate to correct you but that was Tom Fisher, senior LB from Florida who was killed returning from Florida for 1966 spring break. You are correct he might very well had been the greatest LB we ever had.

Thanks for the input It was Fisher and I thought he was from Memphis. Sorry for the error.

 

[LAVol1]

And he was unable to recruit good players. He was very religious and would not recruit players who were not perfect gentlemen and now faults. He was actually a very good Xs and Os coach but the talent level dropped quickly with his recruiting.

I don't think he was a good X's and 0's coach. I attended the 1974 game at LSU during his tenure and watched the Vols run the same pass play over and over. We had a 10-0 lead in the second quarter thanks to 4 LSU fumbles, but LSU made the proper adjustment and shut down the one pass play that worked and the Vols didn't threaten to score thereafter. The Vols continued to run the play the second half with poor results and ended up losing. I saw no adjustments from the Vol coaching staff. With Holloway at QB, Larry Seivers and Stanley Morgan at WR, Paul Johnson and Mickey Marvin on the OL, a pretty good Vols roster looked inept vs. a 1-2-1 LSU team that finished 5-5-1. Battle was a fine man, just too inexperienced to be a head coach in the SEC.